Do you think we can get away with this?

[littleladykaty]

Can I ask, if it won't bother anyone too much as I see how sensitive a subject it is...if the whole refillable mugs thing is such an issue why don't they make WDW wide mugs so that there is no longer an issue...it can't cost that much to distribute fountain soda...if they up the cost of the mugs a bit they could eliminate the very odd need people have to have forbidden soda from a resort they are not staying at! Does this seem odd to anyone else? Is it just the morality of it all? People illicitly stealing soda? I suppose that people so love Disney and it's representation of all that is pure and good and honest...that the idea of people breaking rules maybe rubs a bit of the magic away...

anyhow...i am endlessly fascinated by the levels of emotion on these boards in regards to WDW et al!!!

 

[nick1978]

Hi everyone, i would like to introduce myself. My name is Nick, and i am Jezzabelles Fiance. this message is split into several parts as its a long one....lol I see this thread which she innocently started has caused alot of controversy and i do enjoy a good debate. Firstly let me start by thanking the majority of you for your kind words and congratulations. We both appreciate it and regardless of your opinion some of you have shared those kind words with us on this board.

 

[nick1978]

However, i must also add that to be quite honest there is a minority of you, and you know who you are who post quite rude, uncontructive criticism not only on the board but also by sending private messages.

I shall say this only once, if you have criticism and you wish to air it, dont be a coward, post it on the board so everyone can see what you have to say.

I agree with alot of you that it is not ideal and initially it was something we were just curious about just as it came up in conversation but the fact that quite a few feathers have been ruffled has surprised me, particularly by those of you who have adopted this holier than thou attitide and although i cant say with a high degree of accuracy, but bearing in mind what you have said regarding your own weddings this would be an accurate assessment.

 

[nick1978]

Now for those of you who may be interested, as i am a trained attorney. There are no sets of laws which are common to only Disney, people at large, or small minority groupings of people who leave messages on this board in the belief that they know the law and they are correct.

Copyright law is extremely simple and has no grey area's. Virtually anything within reason can be copyrighted. This is done because the author/designer (what you will) Does not want your average Joe on the street copying and using their artwork or whatever it is.

 

[sajetto]

Hey Nick, welcome to the boards!

Just wanted to say, no harm no foul. I have no negative feelings toward you or your fiance and I really do wish you all the best.

I am so sorry someone has been sending the PMs, for shame. I don't want to know nor do I care to know who it is. I am in agreement, if you have something to say....say it here

 

[jezebella]

DIS wouldn't let Nick finish up this post---url was too big or something...anyways, this is the end of his post:



However there are circumstances such as these where that same being (I.e Disney) will sell software with artwork on for personal use around the home. This software comes with what is know as a home license. Commonly used for children in this situation.
However, this license does not permit for public viewing, distribution or sale. Which using for place settings, invitations etc for a wedding would be. For this you need to apply for a commercial license which i highly doubt you could get bearing in mind the money Disney make from this service they provide.
Basking in your ignorance becuase you arnt making money from this distribution so its ok and not copyright breach does not change the facts that this is clear copyright infringement. You are affiliating yourself with disney, you are having ur wedding there.....yes but your not entangled with them in a corporate sense where you can use their artwork as and when you feel like it.
Now why Disney dont do anything about this i dont know. It is probably because if Disney decided to sue every person who did this in a lengthy litigation process, they would spend more hours in the courtroom than the parks are open, particularly as they could never hope to recoup what they would claim to be their mitigated losses as the average joe on the street couldnt cover these let alone the court costs, especially as a number of you have stated you remortgaged to pay for your wedding.
The moral of this story, people who live in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.....you know who you are. You dont like the thought of what other people, ensure your not doing something which is ACTUALLY ILLEGAL compared to people who were thinking about bending the rules (Not Illegal)
I look forward to conversing with you all and hope i havent offended anyone too much, however for those of you this applies to, if you want to make comments which are deserving of much harsher words than i have used here, dont make rude comments in the first place.
Have a good day x

 

[nick1978]

hiya thank you for your support, to those who have replied and no it wasnt directed to you Ev,

 

[nick1978]

i meant to give u an example, if i go and buy a disney DVD that is for my viewing only, i cant copy it and give it to a family or friend member for free, the licence is different, which is why if u watch a dvd u bought and compare the copyright notice at the beginning to one you rent you will see they state different terms.

I agree the members cups thing is annoying just on a side note

 

[Fantasia Sam]

However, i must also add that to be quite honest there is a minority of you, and you know who you are who post quite rude, uncontructive criticism not only on the board but also by sending private messages.

I shall say this only once, if you have criticism and you wish to air it, dont be a coward, post it on the board so everyone can see what you have to say.

Hi Nick

I'm sorry to read this and I do hope that the PM's that have been recieved are not of an attacking nature.

Whilst I am a moderator of this forum I do have my own opinions (which I am entitled to) of the original topic that Jezabelle posted about like I said before this is just my own personal feeling and I would hate to think that anything I have posted has been taken as unconstructive criticsm, certainly that was not my intention at all, and I apologise if it was taken that way.

I have certainly taken on board what Jezabelle's reasons were for the question but I still have to be true to what I feel about the subject, which everyone has already read, so I won't bore you again with my own opinions on the subject.

Jezabelle herself asked the question "Do you think we can get away with this?", and from what I have read the answer would probably be "yes you can get away with it".

OK I was guilty of bringing up pools and mugs - so lets cut that from this particular thread now. If you have a question regarding them in relation to weddings then start a new thread please.

On copyright law I have no clue as to the legalities just what my EM told me and what was in my wedding contract with Disney and what I understood from the software that I own. Again I would advise that if someone else has anything to add to that subject relating to Disney weddings they start that on another thread.

Nick and Jezabelle - like I said before I do wish you happiness in your exchange of vows wherever they may be - I'm sorry I am just one of those people who doesn't like to see the "rules", as I understood them, to be broken, you can imagine what a pain I was at school

 

[Fantasia Sam]

Sorry I was posting just as you were posting the rest of Nick's response Jezabelle.

Certainly I will bow to Nick's experience as an Attorney on the laws of copyright infringement, like I said I was told that I was OK to do my programs, place cards and table names and gift tags as they did contain clipart. So I guess from what Nick is saying I did break the rules on that, if that is the case. I was certainly not aware that I could be a culprit of people in "glass houses shouldn't throw stones" and for that it seems I owe an apology.

 

[LouisianaDisneyFan]

hiya thank you for your support, to those who have replied and no it wasnt directed to you Ev,

Hahaha, this could be read two ways... that the thank you wasn't directed toward me, or that the other posts weren't directed toward me! I got your PM though, so I know you meant the second. It's so easy to confuse what someone really intends with what they write on a forum, because we have no personal understanding of each other's personalities or background, and we can't pick up body language or visual cues while reading. I agree with Sam's earlier post, though, that open discussion is a GOOD thing and should be encouraged rather than stifled... we just need to remember to read the posts picturing an "interested and engaged" face on the other end rather than an "angry" one! And last, thanks for posting the copyright info. It's nice to find a kindred spirit on that topic! (Like Sam, I'm also a rule follower and was a pain in school! )

 

[ohanafamily]

Hi Nick, First of all I must say that ifI am one of those guilty of being holier than thou, my apologies. I try to walk a fine line of helpful but not going far enough as to upset anyone.

Also, I wish to welcome you.

I am NOT an attorney, and I understand how simple the copyright process is. Most of the laws are very cut-and-dried. I think we are discussing a licensing issue more than a copyright issue. I will argue the point about licensing. When you agree to a use license they can be quite complex. A lot of what we are discussing here deals with the right to use an item, and not everyone here speaks legalese fluently. I would therefore say we are caught up a little on semantics.

I go to great pains to make sure that I obey the license on software. The grey areas come into place when a big company (like Disney) own the copyright on a certain image/item and they feel that the image that you are using is too close to what they have copyrighted.

Again, most of the people here haven't had legal training and only understand what they can read. Without the benefit of legal council we must do our best to figure out how items can be used. From experience, the DIS is very conservative on what it will and won't allow.

I also say that this is not a debate board, and if the discussion gets too heated the "Moderated Board" factor kicks in and Sam will close the thread.

I usually will PM a poster with my response if there are bits I deem personal information. For example if you were a teen and I wanted to let you know that you are giving too much information about yourself (like an address or the fact that you were born in 1978). I am a big advocate for not letting bad people track down the teens on the boards. If someone is PMing your DF with offensive material, please report them to a moderator. One of the best things about a moderated board is that it keeps everyone civil.

I am familiar with a few of the rules because I was involved on a similar thread a couple of years ago and someone posted or pm'ed me a list of the rules.

I also wish to point out that I have never heard of what they did to anyone who was caught. I know that they will remove you from the park if you are wearing a wedding dress and it is not done within the specific confines of a FTW contract.

As far as the usage of clip-art on a website, I know that each company that produces it has it's own licenses. On a public forum (like this) the moderators do not always know if something is "Legal" or not. If it is obvious, the item is removed. If not, they rely on the honor of the poster.

Please feel free to PM me if you have a problem with what I am saying, ESP if the thread gets locked. You seem a reasonable and intelligent person. I will repeat my suggestions to call the resort to ask their policy.

Finally, Please forgive me if I have offended any of you. We are dealing with some very emotionally charged issues here on the Dis. I am trying to give honest answers without passing judgement...

 

[Fantasia Sam]

Like I said before, it is not my intention to lock this thread because so far we're exchanging opinions and thoughts, but I feel that we are moving too much away from the original topic of "Do you think we can get away with this?" in reference to getting married at Walt Disney World world without going through the "official" channels with DFTW.

So let's keep this thread on this topic and by all means anyone can start a new one on other subjects that were brought up in conjunction with this topic.

Thanks

 

[nick1978]

thankyou both for your replies, Firstly dont feel my veno on this matter was directed at both of you personally, however i am not one for embarressing people who have no idea about anything and just either take things to far or want to cause trouble. In reference to you Sam, we very much enjoyed yours and others comments, but please remember it was just an idea. and i do feel people can take things too far.
My reason for clarifying the subject as most people on here commented on it and its difficult to keep track of who says what.
I am curious to know how many people from here who like to chat about disney as its a favourite subject for all of us live here in Orlando

Nick

 

[Fantasia Sam]

In reference to you Sam, we very much enjoyed yours and others comments, but please remember it was just an idea. and i do feel people can take things too far.

I'm pretty sure it was an idea that lots of people have had and I totally get why you both had it.

I am curious to know how many people from here who like to chat about disney as its a favourite subject for all of us live here in Orlando

Well Nick this is why I joined the DIS - many moons ago I don't know if you know but I'm from the UK, and Orlando was the first place in the States I visited, I've seen a few other cities since then but yup Disney is a big hobby of mine and I talk about it all day.

You're pretty lucky to live so close - I'm blessed that I get to travel there as often as I do but there's still so much to see and learn, it's a never ending quest. I've nearly managed to fulfill my goal of eating at every WDW establishment on-property including counter-service, just a few more to go but I get way-laid as I love to go back to my old favourites.

 

[ohanafamily]

Nick, I hadn't read the last part of your post before I posted my long post. I humbly disagree with some of what you are saying. I am not a lawyer, but I have seen a little bit of case law. Specifically,

However, this license does not permit for public viewing, distribution or sale. Which using for place settings, invitations etc for a wedding would be. For this you need to apply for a commercial license which i highly doubt you could get bearing in mind the money Disney make from this service they provide.

I would say that a private wedding cannot necessarily be viewed as a public exhibition. Additionally, on a product designed to produce an invitation it would be inherent that reasonable use would dictate that you could actually mail out and send the invitations that were produced by the product. Regardless what the license reads, and how high priced the legal team, Disney would have a difficult time pressing that case.

I could also take issue with the tone you are taking with most of your post. I can see that some of it might be because you have had someone calling you out on moral ground. I have had dealings with patent and copyright lawyers and I have learned that nothing is so obvious as to silence objections Especially when a jury might be involved.

Nick and Jezabelle, Congratulations and I wish you a happy union! I hope that I have been helpful. I bear you no ill will, and try not to judge others morality. I just do the best I can to make sure I don't do anything illegal, immoral, or unethical.

 

[ohanafamily]

Nick and Sam

I just read your last posts. I will admit to being a slow typist

No harm done, I did not mean to sound harsh about5 your tone, I may have taken it more personally than I should have. Again, I appreciate you expertize and hope that we can see beyond any posturing to the merits of what we are saying.

Sam, OK, Back to the topic.....

 

[LouisianaDisneyFan]

Additionally, on a product designed to produce an invitation it would be inherent that reasonable use would dictate that you could actually mail out and send the invitations that were produced by the product.

OhanaFamily, I'm also not a lawyer, but I agree with your interpretation. Copyright owners are free to grant permission for specific use of their material (you see "reproduction or use for educational purposes" quite often listed as an exception to copyright on printed materials). I believe making invitations for your personal functions would fall well into the scope intended for the Disney computer program (extended solely to use by the registered owner of that program). I think this would also include materials produced for a reception or other function with that same program, as it would still be the personal use of the program owner. ~Ev

 

[Fantasia Sam]

LOL you guys are killing me with this whole not staying on topic... NOT!!

OK so we're all good on the copyright/license subject now, on this particular thread. Anymore questions or discussion on here about it and I will have to move to a new thread and that can be a complicated task in itself

 

[ohanafamily]

EV, yup, that ambiguety is why we spend so much money on lawyers...It is what I might call "Job Security" for Nick..

(typed with a playful grin indicating a joke that everyone will find humorous)

BYW, Nick, what is your speciality? I hope it isn't Patent law and I haven't just made a complete and utter fool of myself...

:figmeny: