Do you think I am wrong?

[luvsJack]

I would like to jump in again and say one more time: there are jobs that require a cell phone. Dh's employment requires it and only pays a small portion of the bill. His bill is the highest of the phones on our plan because it is unlimited everything. He is all over the country and has to make calls all over the country and cannot be kept within a certain number of minutes. If we tried to keep the plan within the amount they pay toward it, we would end up owing quite a bit on the bill each month due to going over them minutes. There are times that a cell phone is a NEED.

If we were in the situation of the people you work with, we would have to get rid of mine and dd's phone; but would have to keep his.

Maybe each case needs to be looked at individually??

 

[minnie1928]

I would like know what service cell phone you that is 5.oo dollars a month. So I can get that kind of cell phone.

I have T-Mobile prepaid. I paid $100 the first year to qualify as a "gold" member (I think that's what it's called). With that status your minutes will never expire, as long as you add on at least $10 worth of minutes within 365 days of your last addition. So, it costs me about $10/year. I think the per minute charge is about .12 or so...maybe more, I haven't looked lately.

 

[singnring]

I am going to go to the program director and ask about making the surrender of these expensive plans prior to getting into the program mandatory.

This sounds like a great idea.

Too many people claim to need assistance, when in all actuality, they are simply mis-managing their money.

Just like the other poster who witnessed the couple who can afford Blackberries and the plans to go with them, but they need FS to buy their groceries!

 

[bumbershoot]

I think it's a hard question, absolutely NOT answerable with a yes/no question, as to whether they should have these phones or not.

We dumped our landline provider years and years ago, to go cell-only. I have NO idea where anyone can get a $5/month plan with a cell (or at least one that will do you any good!), or $15/month with a landline. Even if there were a $15 landline, taxes and fee would easily bring that up to at least 25. And then if it's the phone company up here in the pac NW, they would constantly overcharge you, then you'd have to spend ages fighting with them for a credit, next month it would be the same, etcetc.

I also don't see having a *nice* phone as being a big bad thing. If you're willing to wait about a year after a phone comes out, it's generally part of the "free with contract" deals. Especially so if you buy a refurb model.

I remember growing up, knowing that my mom had left work an hour away, and the horrible feeling of nervousness if we didn't hear her car pulling in within 5 minutes of her normal time. It was a HORRIBLE feeling. The not knowing.

So yeah, we survived without mobile connectivity, but I sure didn't LIKE that survival mode! So I have a hard time saying that it's purely a luxury. I had a friend who was really judgy about cells, held out until her boss made her have one for work, and within a year she had realized that they aren't evil incarnate and are quite helpful. Come to think of it, that's how I was too, for a good long while! Then once you have one, dump the landline, and realize that it's a useful thing, you don't see it as a luxury anymore.

So it's hard for me to think that someone who still does think it's a luxury item should be judging people who might have gotten past that feeling already.

That said, 140 is high, though how many people are on it? We have, from DH's research, the lowest minutes we can go (a generous amount), with a price from Cingular that was moved to AT&T, and we *cannot* lower the minutes, and cannot lower the cost. We're as low as we can go. And still it's not *cheap*. But it would be one of the very last things to go, and still I'm not sure we could let it go if there were work situations where we needed to be in touch for interviews, etc etc.

So I might really find out their stories. Why do they have the phones? Do they have a landline? Can they see using the landline and NOT being available to whatever calls come in at any time? (and of course I hope you're offering voicemail with the landline, or an answering machine) What exactly will the early termination fee be? Is your agency willing to pay that?

Instead of it being a solid line in the sand, find out each family's own individual reasons and story behind the nice phones and big plan. And then go from there.

 

[luvmy3jewels]

I think I would be frustrated if I were in your position as well seeing that. Everyone has different values and ideas about what is important to them. Unfortunately, most people that end up needing assistance have gotten to that point because of bad decision making/budgeting.

I recently had a conversation with my dh about going to the dentist as a kid, and he told me that his parents couldn't afford for him to go very frequently (as a result, he ended up having a lot of cavities). His parents are wonderful people and I love them like my own, but I know that they somehow found a way to afford cigarettes and cable tv when dh was little. To me, their values were a little skewed.

Unfortunately, you can't dictate common sense or responsibility. I frequently see people who have dug themselves in a hole and then expect other people to bail them out.... then once they are out they somehow dig another hole. I think that's why poverty tends to be an endless cycle.

 

[budbeerlady]

I think alot of things we HAVE to have these days are really a luxury. The opinion might be skewed because this is a budget board.

Its frustrating to watch my sister in law go to the food bank and pretty hard on her to go and get food. BUT they could cancel their Direct-tv with all the movies, etc which would free up atleast $50+ a month. (I dont even know what Direct tv runs now, we canceled when it was $50 and just watch antenna tv with our converter box.) They have 2 full plan new cell phones and high speed internet at the house. Dial up aint pretty but it works for me... Dh refuses to help them unless they are willing to make changes first. I do alot to save and would love to slip her a gift card for groceries or something. But I dont because I see Dh's point and it does bug me.

 

[Justsyd2]

I don't really think there is "right or wrong" here. You may see this as something that's not necessary, and they may see it as necessary. There are many things to consider...do they know how to manage their money? Is this something that your organization can help them with? Can they get a better rate plan? Can you help them with that? I don't see it as right or wrong, or only one way to go -- can't you consider all avenues? Dictating to someone is not going to help them -- but helping them to do things better is life changing.

 

[WDmommyof4]

I do not know what state you are in, but perhaps you could talk to the families about canceling their service and getting a free Safelink phone and service plan. Safelink wireless offers a free cell phone and a certain amount of minutes each month for those who are income eligible. If they are receiving food stamps or Medicaid they automatically qualify.

This program is valid in Alabama, Connecticut, DC, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Virginia, Wahington, West Virginia and Wisconsin. They are also expanding to many other states soon. You can visit their site at Safelink Wireless for more information.

 

[MrsPete]

Too many people claim to need assistance, when in all actuality, they are simply mis-managing their money.

Or they need help to maintain a lifestyle they THINK is necessary or to which they feel entitled.

Having said that, I do spend $150/month for four cell phones with a huge number of minutes, nation-wide coverage, and unlimited texting. But here's the differences: I'm not in financial difficulty and am not asking anyone to pay for my groceries or light bill, and we don't maintain a land line in addition to this. If we were to have a financial setback, we'd certainly look into a less expensive plan.

For many young people -- I"m thinking of my high schoolers -- having a fancy, new cell phone is probably in their top five "gotta haves". It's THE most important status symbol to many.

 

[bettymae1121]

Cell phones can be nessesary given certain situations. Even for teens, if they have a lot of activities or have an after school job, it could be perhaps not esential, but a heck of a lot easier.

Just because we lived for decades without cells, doesn't mean they aren't nessesary. We lived for centuries without land line phones, but no one would argue that in todays world they aren't a nessesity. I think cells are slowly becoming indispensable for many people.

That said, there are cheaper was to have cell phones. I spend $140 in a whole YEAR for two cell phones. They are pre-paid so no contracts, and it's easy to re-load when needed. OP, I don't know if I would make it a requirement to ditch the cell plans, but I think I would get as much info as I could about cheaper options and presenting them to your clients, and helping them see the light on their own. In the future, if you find you're having little success in talking people into switching, you can require it at a later date.

 

[Bren's Mom]

Cell phones are not a necessity. They are a convenient 'extra'.

For emergencies, any cell phone without service will get through to 911. If you don't need to call 911, it's not an emergency.

Is a cell a nice convenience for kids who have afterschool activities, etc? Yes, and there are much cheaper ways to get those for them than $140 per month for the family! Unlimited texting and nationwide calling are not necessary.

I think if you are asking someone else to help you, it's reasonable for that organization to expect you to help yourself first. So op, I don't think you're wrong. Do they need to give them up entirely? Not necessarily. Do they need to look at that expense and cut it as much as possible? Absolutely!!

 

[dawson5]

AT&T, it's actually $13 a month, unlimited local. I rounded up. OP said how she has hers for $5/mo. I lived with a pay as you go (tmobile) for under $100/year. Even when I had my pay as you go, if my kids were going somewhere, I would hand it to them. Sometimes everyone in the family does not need a phone. I think a PP said it best, that we are not in that position. The OP is not asking you to give this up but a person she is trying to help. When you have to ask for help, you also have to be willing to help yourself.

Another PP said that her husband needs his phone, completely understand, mine is the same way. The stipend does not cover the cell bill at all. On the other hand, the OP said something about a teenager having a cell, I don't think the teen with the cell comes into it. I know hubby was able to get an unlimited plan years ago through Nextel for $100/mo. When we looked at the bill and saw his actual usage (averaged it over the past year), we were able to cut it to $50/mo., which his stipend did cover. We don't know the family's actual position or need of the cell phones. It's one thing if it is needed for work, another entirely if it is a luxury.

If you have a landline with unlimited local calling and your cell is local, it is one less portion of a bill to pay. I would hope that would help alleviate any fears if a parent is late.

I think the difference is that the posters on the budget board understand the need to give up unnecessary things, try to live within their means. If that means forgoing a home phone and having a cell instead, great but they are also not asking for help in paying the bill. If you had to choose between a $140/mo phone bill or cutting it down to $40 to be able to put food on your table for your teen child, what would you do? This is what the OP is trying to do, to help these people get their minds wrapped around the concept. To cover the needs, not the wants.

 

[a1tinkfans]

I am working with near homeless families. I notice that they have cell phone plans that cost upwards of $140.00 a month.

These families will be taken care of by our program, but they must be responsible and save money so that they will not be in this position again. They learn to budget through weekly meetings dealing with their personal finances.

Do you think I am being unreasonable to ask these people to give up these expensive cell plans? Do you think it is cruel to make a parent take the cell away from their children also on the plan?

I realize that there will be a breaking contract fee, but it is much cheaper than paying $140 a month, IMHO. I am looking into these cell companies willingness to allow them to get onto a cheaper plan and not pay the fee.

I am extremely frugal and might be skewed on this subject. Thanks!

Don't people at the poverty level get FREE phones???? Its on the tv all the time here, gov't backed program...a cell is not a necessity its a luxury IMHO.

Yeah, everyone wants one and more power to them to pay Huge mos fees but to be asking for Help, getting your debt under control or otherwise, seems "off" to me.............just my opinion....many people that want to cut back on $$$$ cut those cell phones down or completely out!! Personally I would Never pay that for a phone plan and I am a business owner, its just a waste of hard earned $$$ imho!

 

[MrsPooh]

I don't have an answer for your bt I can understand the frustration. I was behind a young couple at the grocery store. They had a baby in their cart that was in an obviously and old car seat and they were paying for their groceries with the food stamp card. I never pay much attention to people ahead of me but the cashier asked if the card was visa or debit and she said it was EBT (is that the right word?). The young man was chatting on one of those blackberry whatever phones and then the girl's phone rang and she had one of those nice phones as well. I did upset me even though it wasn't any of my business. I mean sure those phones have some good deals but when you are buying your food with food stamps and your kid is in an ancient car seat a 9.95 tracphone with 30 emergency minutes is enough.

I understand how you feel but don't always make judgements based on appearances. Because of job loss and family illnesses we were on foodstamps for nearly a year. We became a one vehicle family, keeping only the old, paid-for junker, but still really needed a second vehicle. My parents kindly allowed us to use an extra vehicle they own. I'm sure anyone who watched me pay with foodstamps and then get into my parents very nice, new, expensive vehicle would have been angry. What you see is not always what is fact.

Your opinion may have been accurate but it might not have been. They may have owned these phones since before they had financial issues. The phones and service plans may be from a family member. You really cannot know unless you see their monthly income and expense sheets. Dh and I kept our cell phones because he had to have one for a job he had and I needed one for my job. We did both work but our income was just too low and yes, they were nice phones but they were purchased pre-financial disaster and it would have cost us money to purchase less nice phones.

Sorry for the unintentional rant but this is obviously a sore subject for me.

At the same time I understand the situation concerning the op. I now work in administration at a non-profit that works with homeless and those at risk of becoming homeless. My family struggles on a tight budget but then we have families come in with $200 cable bills. Our organization does require that these types of expenses be reduced or eliminated to participate in our program. Most of our funding is from grants and we cannot justify using those funds to help people who are not helping themselves.

 

[jessica52877]

Believe it or not, people don't actually "need" cell phones!!

We all survived for eons without them.

THey are a convenience.

A landline would be much cheaper for them, or even a trac phone with limited minutes, to be used for emergencies only.

Children most certainly do not "need" cell phones.

If they are near homeless, it seems to me that common sense would dictate getting rid of such a luxury.

I see no reason why anyone would consider you unreasonable to expect them to dump the phones in order to continue receiving help.

Agreed! No one NEEDS a cell phone. We have a junker pay as you go and it cost at most $5 a month (that is for 2 phones). I bet I haven't used it 5x in over 2 years and those 5x were not emergencies what so ever.

I look at all these folks having financial troubles and some receiving help and then look at what they own and their bills (cell and cable). It is just crazy! We don't have cable, we don't own a flat screen tv, etc and we don't have issues or debt!

 

[eliza61]

I am working with near homeless families. I notice that they have cell phone plans that cost upwards of $140.00 a month.

These families will be taken care of by our program, but they must be responsible and save money so that they will not be in this position again. They learn to budget through weekly meetings dealing with their personal finances.

Do you think I am being unreasonable to ask these people to give up these expensive cell plans? Do you think it is cruel to make a parent take the cell away from their children also on the plan?

I realize that there will be a breaking contract fee, but it is much cheaper than paying $140 a month, IMHO. I am looking into these cell companies willingness to allow them to get onto a cheaper plan and not pay the fee.

I am extremely frugal and might be skewed on this subject. Thanks!

LOL. Muush, I hate cell phones (long story) so you may be asking the wrong person.
Some where along the line our society has adopted the belief that life as we know it would end if we had to get rid of our electronic gadgets. I work with h.s. seniors who's parents are two steps from ruin but will swear that the kids need cell phones for "emergencies" but yet will run up $200 bills on texting.
Sid & rizzo have a pay as you go plan, no fancy pictures, music or any thing else. It's amazing to me where we have priorities like eat or cell phone and people will continually chose cell phone?

 

[PrincessDadx2]

Since personal cell phones did not exist 25 years, I do not think it is unreasonable to have a requirement. Maybe your org can pick up a cheap voice mail system. When I was unemployed the outplacement service had a mailbox where people could leave me messages and I could pick them up whenever I had access to a phone. It was dedicated to me and I could leave a professional message for anyone who called me.

Bottom line for me I guess is:

If you are paying your own bills then get whatever you want.

If I am paying your bills then no cell phones, Ipods, cable TV, video games, internet access, etc. Food, Shelter and Utilities. If that is such a "hardship" then pay your own bills.

 

[fakereadhed]

Ummm... I have a tracfone. No monthly fee. I use it only when I really need to make a call. I consider it a luxury. I could do without it.

Is it cruel for my teen DD never to have a cell phone in the first place? I really don't think so.

My oldest DD has a pay as you go and pays $40/mo for unlimited texting- out of her own money.

I am horrified at my friends who are unable to make mortgage payments that have Iphones and Blackberries. It's craziness!

 

[GOOFY4DONALD]

Believe it or not, people don't actually "need" cell phones!!

We all survived for eons without them.

THey are a convenience.

A landline would be much cheaper for them, or even a trac phone with limited minutes, to be used for emergencies only.

Children most certainly do not "need" cell phones.

If they are near homeless, it seems to me that common sense would dictate getting rid of such a luxury.

I see no reason why anyone would consider you unreasonable to expect them to dump the phones in order to continue receiving help.

I agree somewhat. I think that for me a cel phone is very important. Weather can get horrible here and the roads can be very dangerous. Since I have to drive my kids 20 miles each way to school I think that this is a necessity. HOWEVER, all of the extras that I do enjoy with my phone are not necessities. If we were tossed into a situation where I had to cut corners the cel phone I have would be one of the first things to go.

My DD12 has a tracphone. She uses about 5 mintes a month. It is for emergencies (we had issues with safety and her dad but that's different) and for when practice ends early or late. I just feel better knowing she can call me without having to hunt down a phone. On the other hand you should see the girls in her class. I find it so upsetting I have to laugh. She is still in elementary school and all the girls have the phones with features I don't even know about. I hate to be so judgemental but...since we are talking about money...you can tell by the kid's cel phone (in my DD's class not overall) which parents are struggling with money and which ones aren't. Every kid in her class that is on the free or reduced lunch has a very expensive cel phone and has all the unlimited text and internet. The kids whose parents don't get any freebies have the tracphones or none at all.

 

[ohlas]

Here is what you need

House with heat
Food
CLothes
Water
way to clean yourself and stuff
doctor visits

Everything else is a luxury. PERIOD.

these are the things i dont mind paying for while you get off your butt and join the grown ups and make a living,,, and im not grumpy with people that just lost their jobs and need help or old or real mrdd people that need help.

but if your able body you should be made to work for your food not given it unless you are in the list above.

so go ahead and yell at me but im sick of paying and paying on a bad investment and yes there will always be poor people etc etc... never ending circle...