Do You think DISNEY has gone down hlll the last few years?

[sparks19]

sure you went before you bought dvc, but you did bought them to save money, so you would pay less. You can say that you would pay rack rate anyway but your dvc membership speaks differenrly.

You say it's all about attitude. are you suggesting that just because we see problems we are negative people? I'm glad you had no problems but I did and trust me when I tell you that I am wearing my bullet proof bobble on vacation, nothing gets me but I did not ask nor expected problems in hotel, I had no idea I will be hit with a smell from dirty bathroom outside EPCOT when I was not even close to it. I can continue my list but let me assure you that none of it was expected, I was not looking for problems. This thread is not about stupid complains and towel animals and all we discuss is real.

of course I bought it to save money. if I can save money for my family I will lol it's the same reason I coupon. I would still pay full price but why would you pay full price if you don't have to? no one HAS to pay full price to go to Disney. I mean that's just absurd to pay full price when there is a way to do it without paying full price.

I can't say we really bought DVC to save money per say. I mean DVC isn't cheap lol. it's like buying another car and we have to pay dues even during years we don't go to Disney. More like we bought DVC so all room reservations were already pre paid lol. Eventually it will get to the point where it saves us money on the room but we've only had it a year so we aren't at that point yet. This will be our second trip with DVC and we rented points for this second trip so we paid extra above what we paid for the DVC membership (which like I said before... isn't cheap exactly). but the over all investment just made sense for us since we are planning to make trips at least every year but we certainly aren't SAVING money yet lol

I haven't read nearly this whole thread so I'm not really saying anything about anyone's complaints in particular but I have seen some assinine complaints on the DIS and heard some really crazy ones while in the parks lol and I wonder what people are thinking sometimes.

 

[brunette8706]

We are DVC members. We've also paid rack rates. Just saying'.

In truth, I'm basing my posts on data and having studied Disney strategy in depth -- not really based on my personal experience. Though I would personally rather pay for the castle view than stay at the Waldorf for free while in WDW. Disney's got me pegged just right from a marketing perspective.

*
Exactly what data are you referring to? Personally, I would like to stay at the brand new Waldorf for nearly HALF the price and have better ammenities than say the Wilderness Lodge or even the Polynesian which is a nice hotel but it's 40 years old. I get immersed in the Disney magic while visiting the parks. Overlooking the castle is nice, but it's not worth the extra money because I will be utlizing most of my/our time at the parks not sitting on the balcony overlooking the castle.

 

[KellyNY]

double post

 

[chepic]

Just had to say.......

A BAD DAY AT DISNEY IS STILL FAR BETTER THAN A GOOD DAY AT WORK..........



just sayin'

che

 

[brunette8706]

Just had to say.......

A BAD DAY AT DISNEY IS STILL FAR BETTER THAN A GOOD DAY AT WORK..........



just sayin'

che

******
Have to agree with you there!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!

 

[KellyNY]

of course I bought it to save money. if I can save money for my family I will lol it's the same reason I coupon. I would still pay full price but why would you pay full price if you don't have to? no one HAS to pay full price to go to Disney. I mean that's just absurd to pay full price when there is a way to do it without paying full price.

Of course why to pay full price when there is a way to save and today there are way too many ways to do it with all discounts and question is why we are given all those choices if they think we would pay anyway.

Your dvc should pay off in 8 years or so, that what I heard but with all the price raise it may happen even earlier so nice move even if you do not see saving right away, you already saving.

 

[sparks19]

Of course why to pay full price when there is a way to save and today there are way too many ways to do it with all discounts and question is why we are given all those choices if they think we would pay anyway.

Your dvc should pay off in 8 years or so, that what I heard but with all the price raise it may happen even earlier so nice move even if you do not see saving right away, you already saving.

Well i can agree with that. TBH i think part of the reason is people love to feel llike they are getting a bargain or a deal. I admit i am one of those people lol i drive my hubby crazy whenever i score a good deal on something

I know the dvc will get to the point where its paid for itself and that is a wonderful thought. Its also a bit of insurance that if times get really tough we will have that so we can still take our disney trips or we can sell it if we really need the money and its a nice thought that its something we can will to our daughter. Kind of like we own a piece of the magic lol

I am definitelynot arguing that disney isn't expensive. It is. But for us it is worth every penny for now

 

[flicx]

*
Exactly what data are you referring to? Personally, I would like to stay at the brand new Waldorf for nearly HALF the price and have better ammenities than say the Wilderness Lodge or even the Polynesian which is a nice hotel but it's 40 years old. I get immersed in the Disney magic while visiting the parks. Overlooking the castle is nice, but it's not worth the extra money because I will be utlizing most of my/our time at the parks not sitting on the balcony overlooking the castle.

Oh how I wish I could afford the poly again.I love the atmosphere there,but the atmosphere doesn't overcome a $400.00+ a night bill for us.You know since I was asked to compare resorts by searcher I was shocked to find out how much less the hardrock,portofino,and royal pacific have gone up in the last decade compared to the disney deluxes.I will say this much IMO universal has done a much better job of raising prices less than disney.I also clicked on the link on here(disboards) for the universal ticket prices and I thought wow they are fairly reasonable.If you go to a park each day I think they were about 50 bucks.No need to buy some long term commitment of a bunch of days to get into a decent rate.They also actually have sale prices on tickets from time to time.I never see this from disney.Also as I said earlier I honestly think I can get into a universal deluxe for less than 200 a night on sale.With front of the line access to boot.

 

[Halloweenqueen]

We lived in NC and always did twice a year WDW trips. We gave DL a try last year and fell in love! We now have APs for the entire family and go quarterly.

I miss Epcot, but that's it. The parks in California offer more attractions that are often better versions of the ones in WDW.

We love not having to take a bus to everywhere. Everything is so close!

The food quality is much better at DL with better CS options.

Holiday decorations cover every inch of DL.

There is just more magic at DL.

I would highly recommend a trip!

 

[flicx]

We lived in NC and always did twice a year WDW trips. We gave DL a try last year and fell in love! We now have APs for the entire family and go quarterly.

I miss Epcot, but that's it. The parks in California offer more attractions that are often better versions of the ones in WDW.

We love not having to take a bus to everywhere. Everything is so close!

The food quality is much better at DL with better CS options.

Holiday decorations cover every inch of DL.

There is just more magic at DL.

I would highly recommend a trip!

I think that is gonna be the next trip for my wife and I when my son gets out of college.Probably next year,did you stay at a disney hotel?

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

So where is your data to support your point?
Can you show us how many people stay on site vs offsite, how many pay rack price and how many use deep discounts?
since you studied subject in depth, it should be no problem to share it and very useful for this discussion.

And what was the reason you bought dvc? wasn't saving a big factor, so you would not have to pay rack price anymore?

Hmmm... I keep feeling like we're not quite "connecting" on this stuff...

OK... I was going to spare everyone the boring details, but here goes... I studied Disney strategy in depth in business school about 1-2 years ago as part of getting my MBA and Masters in Finance. Ended up writing a 240-page report on the whole shebang. We combed through TEA/ERA Theme Park Attendance Reports, Morningstar, Bloomberg and SEC for financial reporting comparisons with other corporations in the industry, hotel school library at Cornell, numerous HBR studies and strategy books re: corporate strategy, Amusement Business magazine, HR Magazine re: their HR practices, and numerous other trade publications, books, marketing analyses, etc. to round out the picture of how the corporation does business; close to 500 footnotes. By no means does this make me an expert, but I am pretty comfortable drawing some major big-picture conclusions from the data I analyzed. And while the data I reviewed is mostly a couple of years old by now, their strategy hasn't changed.

More to the point, the basic incentives that exist in the corporate world haven't changed! A company will still seek to maximize profit. This means maximizing revenue and minimizing cost (to equilibrium levels for their industry). Maximizing revenue means finding the maximum point wrt PRICE x VOLUME. Disney DOES NOT have a track record of getting this wrong.

They lower prices in a weak economy, bump them back up in a stronger economy, and generally achieve top-of-industry PRICE x VOLUME. They focus on market segmentation -- from Four Seasons to Value resorts. They don't see these as the same customer -- because they are not. If you are into fancy linens and a lush "regular" hotel room, Waldorf or Four Seasons is for you!! If you are into castle views, BLT is for you!! If you are more budget-conscious, a value resort or even offsite accommodation is for you. Something for everyone!! Most of what you are focusing on are YOUR preferences. Very real - very relevant to you. Not so relevant to Disney strategy AS A WHOLE BIG PICTURE.

Again -- I maintain that the fact that Disney can charge a premium over The Ritz IS proof of perceived value by the customer -- that price data is the data that supports my point (without conducting a week-long comparative analysis of all hotel accommodations in Orlando!). Unless we are to believe that Disney strategists have all of a sudden gotten stupid, and are charging double what an accommodation is really worth to its customers, we must acknowledge that there is still VALUE for the PRICE among ENOUGH Disney customers. Perhaps not you -- and that's OK from Disney's perspective. They need to maximize revenue -- which means retaining a certain (changing) percentage of the customer base, as well as injecting that base with new customers. One can be up and the other down and Disney still can come out on top. In other words, they might lose you and gain one or two people by virtue of their strategy -- again, ok from a business perspective. Now... if your sentiments were shared by masses of people, Disney would know that -- their hotels and parks would be empty and their bottom line abysmal. This is obviously NOT the case, since attendance and $$/customer are either up or staying quite strong given the weak economic environment.

Hope that all makes sense... it's clear in my head, anyway...

*
Exactly what data are you referring to? Personally, I would like to stay at the brand new Waldorf for nearly HALF the price and have better ammenities than say the Wilderness Lodge or even the Polynesian which is a nice hotel but it's 40 years old. I get immersed in the Disney magic while visiting the parks. Overlooking the castle is nice, but it's not worth the extra money because I will be utlizing most of my/our time at the parks not sitting on the balcony overlooking the castle.

Again -- your preferences! And lucky for you, you can!! While I would - as I said - rather pay rack rate for BLT than stay at Waldorf for FREE. Truly. And lucky for me, I can!!

About DVC... we bought because it made sense from a number of perspectives. A million years ago, I worked in timeshare and knew it was a good deal as long as we would actually use it primarily for Disney vacations. We had just started a family and had VERY busy careers. We knew that paying ahead of time for our vacations as you essentially do with DVC would in a sense FORCE us to take those vacations!! Too easy to let time slip away and not take the time away with family. As others have said, if we didn't go DVC we'd pay rack rate if necessary. As I said before - this isn't charity - no one in their right mind pays MORE for ANY product than they have to. The question is one of "willingness to pay" a premium to stay onsite -- and we and many others are willing as evidenced by the spread between Disney rates and some deluxe accommodations elsewhere.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Well i can agree with that. TBH i think part of the reason is people love to feel llike they are getting a bargain or a deal. I admit i am one of those people lol i drive my hubby crazy whenever i score a good deal on something

I know the dvc will get to the point where its paid for itself and that is a wonderful thought. Its also a bit of insurance that if times get really tough we will have that so we can still take our disney trips or we can sell it if we really need the money and its a nice thought that its something we can will to our daughter. Kind of like we own a piece of the magic lol

I am definitelynot arguing that disney isn't expensive. It is. But for us it is worth every penny for now

Bingo - I'm with you!

 

[KellyNY]

Hmmm... I keep feeling like we're not quite "connecting" on this stuff...

OK... I was going to spare everyone the boring details, but here goes... I studied Disney strategy in depth in business school about 1-2 years ago as part of getting my MBA and Masters in Finance. Ended up writing a 240-page report on the whole shebang. We combed through TEA/ERA Theme Park Attendance Reports, Morningstar, Bloomberg and SEC for financial reporting comparisons with other corporations in the industry, hotel school library at Cornell, numerous HBR studies and strategy books re: corporate strategy, Amusement Business magazine, HR Magazine re: their HR practices, and numerous other trade publications, books, marketing analyses, etc. to round out the picture of how the corporation does business; close to 500 footnotes. By no means does this make me an expert, but I am pretty comfortable drawing some major big-picture conclusions from the data I analyzed. And while the data I reviewed is mostly a couple of years old by now, their strategy hasn't changed.

More to the point, the basic incentives that exist in the corporate world haven't changed! A company will still seek to maximize profit. This means maximizing revenue and minimizing cost (to equilibrium levels for their industry). Maximizing revenue means finding the maximum point wrt PRICE x VOLUME. Disney DOES NOT have a track record of getting this wrong.

They lower prices in a weak economy, bump them back up in a stronger economy, and generally achieve top-of-industry PRICE x VOLUME. They focus on market segmentation -- from Four Seasons to Value resorts. They don't see these as the same customer -- because they are not. If you are into fancy linens and a lush "regular" hotel room, Waldorf or Four Seasons is for you!! If you are into castle views, BLT is for you!! If you are more budget-conscious, a value resort or even offsite accommodation is for you. Something for everyone!! Most of what you are focusing on are YOUR preferences. Very real - very relevant to you. Not so relevant to Disney strategy AS A WHOLE BIG PICTURE.

Again -- I maintain that the fact that Disney can charge a premium over The Ritz IS proof of perceived value by the customer -- that price data is the data that supports my point (without conducting a week-long comparative analysis of all hotel accommodations in Orlando!). Attendance and $$/customer would NOT be up otherwise. Unless we are to believe that Disney strategists have all of a sudden gotten stupid, and are charging double what an accommodation is really worth to its customers, we must acknowledge that there is still VALUE for the PRICE among ENOUGH Disney customers. Perhaps not you -- and that's OK from Disney's perspective. They need to maximize revenue -- which means retaining a certain (changing) percentage of the customer base, as well as injecting that base with new customers. One can be up and the other down and Disney still can come out on top. In other words, they might lose you and gain one or two people by virtue of their strategy -- again, ok from a business perspective. Now... if your sentiments were shared by masses of people, Disney would know that -- their hotels and parks would be empty and their bottom line abysmal.

Hope that all makes sense... it's clear in my head, anyway...



Again -- your preferences! And lucky for you, you can!! While I would - as I said - rather pay rack rate for BLT than stay at Waldorf for FREE. Truly. And lucky for me, I can!!

About DVC... we bought because it made sense from a number of perspectives. A million years ago, I worked in timeshare and knew it was a good deal as long as we would actually use it primarily for Disney vacations. We had just started a family and had VERY busy careers. We knew that paying ahead of time for our vacations as you essentially do with DVC would in a sense FORCE us to take those vacations!! Too easy to let time slip away and not take the time away with family. As others have said, if we didn't go DVC we'd pay rack rate if necessary. As I said before - this isn't charity - no one in their right mind pays MORE for ANY product than they have to. The question is one of "willingness to pay" a premium to stay onsite -- and we and many others are willing as evidenced by the spread between Disney rates and some deluxe accommodations elsewhere.

So, no numbers, no data?
I'm not interested in a list of books your read, all I ask is to provide numbers of what is going on now, can you?

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

So, no numbers, no data?
I'm not interested in a list of books your read, all I ask is to provide numbers of what is going on now, can you?

I hope this doesn't get antagonistic and cranky now - I thought the discussion was generally so civil with most people here. Honestly, I spent months analyzing all the data years ago and wrote a 240-page report, and no, I am not going to do that again in order to make an open-and-shut case on a Disney message board.

That said -- and as I said before -- one can't argue with
1) higher-end accommodations at Disney being more expensive than the Ritz (data provided in this thread), and simultaneously
2) attendance and $$/customer being up (data also provided in this thread).
While this is not a 240-page thesis, it's still a far cry from purely subjective opinions about things feeling like they've gone downhill, or personal views that for any one individual it may not be value for the money anymore.

ALL of those personal views and opinions are valid! Heck, especially on a message board for goodness sake! My point is that these are all opinions -- purely subjective -- and that no data has been put forth as evidence that these opinions are widespread and a sign of an actual problem for Disney. Not a downward trend in attendance data, not abysmal earnings, nothing. In fact, the only actual data seem to suggest that these opinions are not - as of yet - translating into real business realities for Disney (again... or attendance would not be relatively strong, and they would not be able to charge double Waldorf rates).

I love having real discussions on here when a thread allows -- and so far for me it has -- to my great enjoyment. But if things are going to get unnecessarily nasty, I will excuse myself.

 

[KellyNY]

I hope this doesn't get antagonistic and cranky now - I thought the discussion was generally so civil with most people here. Honestly, I spent months analyzing all the data years ago and wrote a 240-page report, and no, I am not going to do that again in order to make an open-and-shut case on a Disney message board.

That said -- and as I said before -- one can't argue with
1) higher-end accommodations at Disney being more expensive than the Ritz (data provided in this thread), and simultaneously
2) attendance and $$/customer being up (data also provided in this thread).
While this is not a 240-page thesis, it's still a far kcry from purely subjective opinions about things feeling like they've gone downhill, or personal views that for any one individual it may not be value for the money anymore.

ALL of those personal views and opinions are valid! Heck, especially on a message board for goodness sake! My point is that these are all opinions -- purely subjective -- and that no data has been put forth as evidence that these opinions are widespread and a sign of an actual problem for Disney. Not a downward trend in attendance data, not abysmal earnings, nothing. In fact, the only actual data seem to suggest that these opinions are not - as of yet - translating into real business realities for Disney (again... or attendance would not be relatively strong, and they would not be able to charge double Waldorf rates).

I love having real discussions on here when a thread allows -- and so far for me it has -- to my great enjoyment. But if things are going to get unnecessarily nasty, I will excuse myself.

Nasty?
If you present your opinion as a official story, I see no problem to ask for numbers, isn't it what you asked us?
Otherwise your opinion is just opinion and no more valid them mine or Flix or others, regardless of what papers we wrote or books we read.
This thread is civil and we do enjoy it and we do respect each other points of view btw as equal and valid.

 

[vacationclub]

So, no numbers, no data?
I'm not interested in a list of books your read, all I ask is to provide numbers of what is going on now, can you?

She doesn't need to. The specific numbers are not required to make the point which is "a product is worth whatever someone will pay for it". Period. As long as Disney finds enough people to pay X amount for a product, regardless of what others may think of it's value, that's all they need to justify setting the price. I believe they teach this in the first 5 minutes of freshman economics 101.

Is a stuffed animal worth $40? It is if it's a Disney Character. Is a walk down a street worth $80? It is if it's Main Street USA. You have to look beyond the actual raw materials (linens, etc) to understand what gives something a value that people will pay for.

 

[KellyNY]

She doesn't need to. The specific numbers are not required to make the point which is "a product is worth whatever someone will pay for it". Period. As long as Disney finds enough people to pay X amount for a product, regardless of what others may think of it's value, that's all they need to justify setting the price. I believe they teach this in the first 5 minutes of freshman economics 101.

Is a stuffed animal worth $40? It is if it's a Disney Character. Is a walk down a street worth $80? It is if it's Main Street USA. You have to look beyond the actual raw materials (linens, etc) to understand what gives something a value that people will pay for.

They also teach to raise numbers and offer discounts to get exactly what they want to get and to make customer feel like he gets a deal when it's really not. Every time in real life we see retail price vs our price we experience this very principle. So which price is actually worth according to customers, rack price or 25-30% off? And we know discounts run all year long now. Therefore, unless we can actually see numbers of who pays what, all the theory is nothing but another opinion. I do not apply that I am right but there is no proof that I am wrong either.

 

[brunette8706]

You're right, at the end of the day it IS personal preference. But, I'll take the lux hotel for half the price with a view of Disney (extra $20.00 per nite) rather than paying FULL RACK RATE at a Disney Resort. I refuse to pay RACK RATE, but if that's what you want to do, go nuts...LOL! The way the economy is now it's way too cost prohibitive for us to pay RACK RATE. Again, that's your personal perference.

Brunette

 

[vacationclub]

They also teach to raise numbers and offer discounts to get exactly what they want to get and to make customer feel like he gets a deal when it's really not. Every time in real life we see retail price vs our price we experience this very principle. So which price is actually worth according to customers, rack price or 25-30% off? And we know discounts run all year long now. Therefore, unless we can actually see numbers of who pays what, all the theory is nothing but another opinion. I do not apply that I am right but there is no proof that I am wrong either.

Not everyone is paying 25-30% off. I'm sure they are tweaking this ratio as they track booking patterns. Just like they do on airlines....what's an airline seat worth? There is an average somewhere in the middle.


This is no "theory" or opinion, what's being explained here is simple economics. What theory do you think is being put forth? That businesses like Disney know exactly what the market will bear and price accordingly? That a room at a Disney Deluxe is actually worth more to some people than at the Waldrolf? And what is your theory that you are trying to say you aren't right or wrong about? They only thing being explained here is the basics of how a company prices it's products, not what Disney actually earned last quarter.

A customer "thinking they are getting a deal when they are actually not" is not an economic tool and thus not taught...you can't teach something you can't define. There is no way to define what that "deal" is, because everyone is different, and to some they might feel they are getting a "deal". Economics doesn't deal with "deals", they deal with supply and demand. That's what they have marketing departments for. Marketing departments come up with the tricks that you speak of, but they are driven by the hard numbers gained over there in the finance department.

What data do you want and why? Are you trying to establish some proof that Disney is run by idiots that don't know how to price their product according to market factors? I think I can take a wild leap and say that if the Deluxe has a certain price, Disney has some decent inside data that guides them to price in a certain way.

 

[brunette8706]

They also teach to raise numbers and offer discounts to get exactly what they want to get and to make customer feel like he gets a deal when it's really not. Every time in real life we see retail price vs our price we experience this very principle. So which price is actually worth according to customers, rack price or 25-30% off? And we know discounts run all year long now. Therefore, unless we can actually see numbers of who pays what, all the theory is nothing but another opinion. I do not apply that I am right but there is no proof that I am wrong either.

*
They never used to have FREE DINING during the holiday season, ever. They are starting to do this now to BRING more people in the resorts. I would suspect that the attendence was low because of the bad enconomy, but Disney is offering this incentive to bring in more attendance to their resort base.