Do You think DISNEY has gone down hlll the last few years?

[sdarl]

I definitely agree. Also, for someone who visits very frequently you may see these changes, but I've only been there twice, and it's always a maagical experience. I think most people don't go that often, and all they see is the magic, not these downgrades.

 

[disneynutz]

Interesting that they pay an outside company for decorations, but not a decent excuse. They have created expectations for decor and mood -- when those things are removed or lessened, it does hurt the whole experience. My kids were very sad when they got off at Ticket and Transportation and didn't see one sign for the Halloween party. Mainstreet seemed only partially decorated and it was the only place with decorations, at all. My house is more disneyfied, LOL .

Would I go again? Maybe. It is lacking the ambiance we came to love, but it is still Disney and Villains party and parade are great. BUT, we won't go as often. Will Disney care? Nope. They are still making money hand over fist by charging more and giving less. I wonder what Walt would say????

It's not a outside company, it's a Disney company. On the books they still have to budget and transfer funds. There may be a tax benefit also, just like they do with the admission tickets, one Disney company sells them to another Disney company to get a tax break.

Bill

 

[Planogirl]

Right ... but clearly that was a special promotion, very much like when Disney runs "Kids Play Free" or "Buy 4 get 3" promotions. You can't compare a special promotion Universal rate to Disney rack rate and use that to say that Universal's prices haven't kept up with Disney's. If you compare apples to apples (that is, rack rate for a one-day / one-park ticket at each park), the two parks have matched each other price increase for price increase for at least a decade, and they currently cost exactly the same.

Universal ran that $99 for a week special for a very long time so I think that it's applicable. I know that I as a consumer could always count on better pricing at Universal than at WDW and we do visit both regularly.

Of course, WDW does have four parks compared to two at Universal. I won't let the fact that we don't visit one WDW park change that comparison. The truth is that it all depends on what you want when you go on vacation. I want a lot of Universal, a lot of Disney and some outside world thrown in for good measure. With that mindset, I find Disney's prices to be by far the heaviest burden.

 

[KellyNY]

Right ... but clearly that was a special promotion, very much like when Disney runs "Kids Play Free" or "Buy 4 get 3" promotions. You can't compare a special promotion Universal rate to Disney rack rate and use that to say that Universal's prices haven't kept up with Disney's. If you compare apples to apples (that is, rack rate for a one-day / one-park ticket at each park), the two parks have matched each other price increase for price increase for at least a decade, and they currently cost exactly the same.

You can call it promotion if you want but I call it ticket system. I could get same price for years, every single day, it did not change. Can you say the same about disney, not really. You talk about disney promotions but they are not for tickets, they are for packages, did not run all the time and had limitations and regarless of promotion, it was never a set number, but a percentage base on current price which was going up every year, so same promotion would cost me more next year, unlike universal. So I do compare apples to apples, I compare changes and price raise and universal price was the same while disney raised it every year.

 

[Albytaps]

When we talk about Universal you can say they almost went down the toilet, way more than downhill. WWOHP pretty much revived them from their grave, and thank God for that!

 

[WDSearcher]

Universal ran that $99 for a week special for a very long time so I think that it's applicable. I know that I as a consumer could always count on better pricing at Universal than at WDW and we do visit both regularly.

Of course, WDW does have four parks compared to two at Universal. I won't let the fact that we don't visit one WDW park change that comparison. The truth is that it all depends on what you want when you go on vacation. I want a lot of Universal, a lot of Disney and some outside world thrown in for good measure. With that mindset, I find Disney's prices to be by far the heaviest burden.

I see your point, but the $99/wk special still had restrictions on it. It wasn't a "normal" Universal ticket and it wasn't available to everyone or available every day. For me, that's not a fair comparison to a Disney rack-rate ticket that is available to anyone who wants it for any day they want to use it. I mean ... if you want to go that route, then during Disney's "free on your birthday" promotion, anyone who wanted to could get into any Disney park for free. And free blows Universal's ticket price out of the water! But again ... not a fair comparison.

Comparing any park's special price -- regarless of how long it ran -- to what another park charges normally is simply choosing the numbers you want to choose in order to prove the point you want to prove.

I do agree that Disney's prices tend to be the heaviest burden in any comprehensive theme park vacation in Florida. But that's partly because most people choose to spend more days at Disney than at Universal. My guess is that there are way more people who spend five days at Disney and two days at Universal than the other way around. So of course Disney is going to command more of your budget.

If you spent two days at Universal and two days at Disney and that was it, I think you'd find it pretty comparable unless you bought park-hoppers. If you bought park hoppers, you'd end up paying about twice at Disney what you'd pay at Universal for tickets, but that seems appropriate since you'd have four parks to hop to instead of two.

It really just depends on how you do the math.

 

[MrsDuck]

Short answer: no.

 

[WDSearcher]

You can call it promotion if you want but I call it ticket system. I could get same price for years, every single day, it did not change. Can you say the same about disney, not really. You talk about disney promotions but they are not for tickets, they are for packages, did not run all the time and had limitations and regarless of promotion, it was never a set number, but a percentage base on current price which was going up every year, so same promotion would cost me more next year, unlike universal. So I do compare apples to apples, I compare changes and price raise and universal price was the same while disney raised it every year.

IMO you're still not comparing apples to apples. The last time Universal offered a $99 pass special (2009), it carried the following restrictions:

• Offer is valid on new purchases only. (No upgrades)
• Limit eight (8) tickets per transaction.
• Blockout dates apply to park admission: April 5-12; June 28-30; July 1-31; December 20-31

It wasn't available every single day -- if you wanted to go to Universal in July or between Christmas and New Years, for example, you were out of luck. You can argue that you wouldn't have gone there anyway during those times, but it's still not an apples to apples comparison with any other park's base ticket prices. It was just a really good deal for you at that time.

 

[Muslickz]

The prices have gotten up there and the quality of the experience has gone down I agree.... Personally I knew that was going happen once they got rid of the McDonalds fries.... it was a sign...lol

-M

 

[Albytaps]

Personally I knew that was going happen once they got rid of the McDonalds fries.... it was a sign...lol

-M

LOL I know, those fries are good.

 

[ascardino]

I'm not sure Downhill is the word I would use to describe it. One of the problems of being a return visitor, things change, some times for the best & some times for the not so good. right now we are in a not so good category.

I think Disney is no more of a money machine than any other company. I think the problem is we (general public) are a "Walmart" mentality nation.

Quality has taken a back seat to cost. For the most part we have sent the signal to companies that we want items as cheaply made as possible. regardless to quality. Now it's biting us in the backside. Products from China are being recalled left and right, toyota pretty much gave away its lead in the car sector due to quality issues and the way they handled it.

Now companies have to make a profit so they have to make up the difference some how.
We see it in the airline industry. people want the cheapest fares possible. Airlines cannot survive like that so we see the nickel and diming, going on although the airlines call in "unbundling" Now we are beginning to hear a cry for "just give me the cost of the flight,$%$ and stop nickeling and diming me to death"

we want cheap meals at disney, so in order to provide that Disney cuts quality and menu offerings. service has become inconsistent at best.

Spectromagic is expensive to put on so since they can only raise ticket prices so much, they cut the days they offer it.

Now we are in a vicious cycle. Would I go to Disney and pay regular rates. No way. Would I pay full price for the meals they offer, heck no. So in order to keep rooms and restaurants full they have to discount. which leads to more cut backs. Look how the ddp has changed in a short period of time.

Disney is simply giving us what we want and if you're a first timer, you don't know the difference.

Sad but true. Well said.

 

[KellyNY]

Nope, that is why I said some or many...I didn't say all. I would never say all. Over the years though, I have met many guests, and I have not had this scope of conversation with any of them. And I'm not really talking about a quick 5 mins chat either, as you can't discuss much. I'm talking about sharing 1 hour at the pool, sitting next to people at the parade, or sharing a table at Teppan Edo, for instance. I have had some good and lengthy conversations over the years as a DVC member about many areas of Disney. I recall a few noticed a few things that they had issues with, but 99.9% were absolutely thrilled with Disney (I am not referring to DVC members either). So, that is a pretty good represenation of couples, singles, families, conventioners and foreign travellers - so a pretty good representative sample of Disney guests.

Does it mean that is representative of all guests? Absolutely not,, but if you are adamant that your representations on these boards are how many guests feel, then why can't we assume the same about the guests who I have spoken with?

I absolutely will not extrapolate anything that I read on this board of diehard Disney fans, as you are going to see more negative than positive (that's the way the DIS works), and we are a very, very small representation of Disney guests. Based on those two alone, I know that it is a skewed environment over here.

If you only trust numbers, tell me where you are getting these numbers from, as we have all determined that Disney does not release true numbers, and the TEA estimates are off as well, so not sure what numbers? You don't have actual attendance numbers, number of guests who stay on-site vs off-site, etc. I think you are trusting your opinions and feelings, and that is a different thing entirely.

Not everything can be deduced by numbers, as we've been discussing. When a large portion of your customer base is happy with the way things are (and please don't think I'm saying that I don't see areas that have gone downhill, because that is not what I am saying), then that company is going to operate business as usual.

Until and unless such time that Disney, who has the real numbers, sees a drop in attendance or occupancy rates, they aren't going to make many changes at all as most of the people partaking in that product are happy. You don't have to believe me, or anyone else on this thread, but based on the way Disney is operating, that is your answer. Disney is very good at gauging guests - they have a large research department devoted to this, as well as a massive accounting department who analyzes the numbers. At this time, Disney is fine with reduced services or subpar food, because most guests are to. Do I know this for a fact? Nope, but based on their business model, that would appear to be the case.

Until such time that I am given hard evidence to the contrary, I will have to adjust my vacation habits accordingly (and have done so), as there are areas where Disney and I disagree, and that is bound to happen!

Am I saying that we can't discuss the areas we would like to see improved? Nope. I just think it's not reasonable to assume that because a few diehard DISboard members feel that areas of the parks are going downhill, that those feelings are representative of millions of other WDW guests. Based on many factors, I know that not to be true. This has been my thrust on this thread. I know many disagree with me, and that is ok.

The bottom line, and thanks to Brunette for starting this thread, is that many of us who love Disney, feel like certain areas need some TLC, and are nervous should Disney not attend to these areas in a reasonable timeframe. I am right there with you! But, I also know that many of the millions of Disney guests who visit don't feel this way either. It would seem that Disney is on that side of the fence right now, with certain areas, and so I can only adjust my vacation habits at Disney until such time that I feel I'm at my breaking point. I am nowhere near there, whereas several of you seem to be.

My wish is that Disney is able to find a balance between reasonable guest expectations, properly caring for the place we all love, and their profit margins.

Thanks, Tiger

ok, but what you call many, do you think that whatever number of people you spoke to in recent years, we consider only last few years when changes became more dramatic, to be a true representation of millions of non board visitors. And even if you spend an hour with them, do you trully believe that they would discuss any specifics with a stranger. it just a social conversation, nice and easy and it is not even polite to bring negativity on people you do not know when those people on vacation. I have such conversations every visit and yes we are all excited, it is vacation but none of us going into details or problems, we just giving each other advices on how to plan next day and keep it socialy easy.

you dismiss people on this board to be representation and no, it is not only few members here who speaks up, recently there are more and more complains and people discuss real problems ,not just ansence of towel animals. There are certainly much more people who voice their complains and conserns here then you and me combined had spoken to on vacations for years. And do not forget that many on this very board just keep quiet simply because otherwise they would be labeled complainers, half empty glass people, having unealirtic expectations and many after few comments their way just stop posting at all.

So why we cannot be consiered representation, just because we are a portion of total number of visitors, so what. We have a good representaion here of fist comers, repeated visitors, dvc, families, singles, empty nesters, young, older generation, everything you can think of, so why cant we be considered representation. Think of board as a microgroup but even representation of a big group.

As for the total numbers, how can you say they all happy or even most of them. do we know how many were satisfied and how many found experience overpriced, do we know how many new people enter the gate just because they saw promotion on tv and they will never come back with regular prices, replaced by new tv watchers. do we trully know anything about it. yes disney is popular, magical place and every parent was brain washed into idea that they have to bring their kids there at least once , but what happens when idea becomes reality and they actually see the dream. most cry, when they see castle and grounds which is gorgeous but most also cry when they see bill. we do not know exactly how many and how they feel but can we dismiss them all and just label them as a happy, satisfied customers. I do not think so.

you say numbers are not correct, then why they are posted all the time. Maybe real numbesr are off a bit but can we at least assume that pattern is the right one. strictly from what disney sais and you posted it yourself, fd works, meaning it was needed or should we dismiss this too. should we dismiss that disney running promotions all year long, except few weeks during actual holidays, and should we dismiss that they did not do it before prices reached level when offsite, rental and parking fee became much less then onsite. why do they do that, because accoring to them it brings people in, it works and it is needed . you say disney will change when they need it and see attendance drops but I see what disney does right now as alreay their reaction to the lower attendance in a past.

you say my opinion is based on my feelings, not really, it base on disney reaction I see, and I know no details just like you, but disney action speaks itself and it is difficult to ignore.

 

[KellyNY]

IMO you're still not comparing apples to apples. The last time Universal offered a $99 pass special (2009), it carried the following restrictions:

• Offer is valid on new purchases only. (No upgrades)
• Limit eight (8) tickets per transaction.
• Blockout dates apply to park admission: April 5-12; June 28-30; July 1-31; December 20-31

It wasn't available every single day -- if you wanted to go to Universal in July or between Christmas and New Years, for example, you were out of luck. You can argue that you wouldn't have gone there anyway during those times, but it's still not an apples to apples comparison with any other park's base ticket prices. It was just a really good deal for you at that time.

Thank you for sharing. Strange, last time I was there in 2007 or 2008, do not remember exactly and I was there during Spring Break, during 4th of July vacations and always paid same price using same promotion, so I guess for years, those limitations did not exist. Where did you even find limitations for 2009, while we could not find ticket charts.

 

[WDSearcher]

Thank you for sharing. Strange, last time I was there in 2007 or 2008, do not remember exactly and I was there during Spring Break, during 4th of July vacations and always paid same price using same promotion, so I guess for years, those limitations did not exist. Where did you even find limitations for 2009, while we could not find ticket charts.

I Googled "Universal Studios $99 promotion" and found an old newspaper article from Orlando sentinel. And if you look at the restrictions, they didn't black out either spring break or July 4, which makes sense if you're trying to get the huge Disney crowds to buy your tickets and come to your park instead. The demographic of people who travel during spring break is kind of exactly who Universal is looking for, so they'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they blacked out their big discount pass during that time.

Universal apparently did that same promotion for several years running -- it was mostly during the years when they weren't opening anything new. It seems to have been offered in 2007, but not 2008 (Simpsons ride opened that year) and then again in 2009.

It's funny ... I can find lots of sites where people kept meticulous track of when Disney prices changed, but can't find anyone who kept track with any other theme park in the world. If we could just get one of those Disney ticket guys to do the research for all the other parks, we would have a gold mine of information!

 

[flicx]

It would be easier to understand this kind of comment if you gave a few examples to show your point. You say that Disney's rack rates are "not even close to reality", but they had to come from somewhere. It's not like Disney is just throwing darts at targets and making prices up.

Which resorts (obviously non-Disney) do you consider to have "realistic" rack-rate prices, and what would you consider realistic? For example ... how do Disney's rack rates for moderate (or even deluxe, I guess) stack up against the rack rates for Portofino Bay or Hard Rock? That seems like a fair comparison. What is rack rate at Nickelodeon or Gaylord?

You keep saying that Disney is unreasonable, but you provide nothing to compare it to, so it's realy just basically your opinion, even if you state it as fact.

Yes it is my opinion,one that would be shared by the majority of people IMO.Do you ever look at travel sites such as priceline ,travelocity,or expedia etc.If disney offers no discounts and stay at rack rates it is a laugher,no contest,they can't compete! Almost every other hotel or motel or resort offers discounts and will continue to.This premise that disney can stop all discounts and do just as well is complete lunacy and is arrogant.Heck the two non disney resorts swan and dolphin would make a killing if this would happen.I am not gonna list resort prices,simply put go to any of the above travel sites and compare yourself!The restaurants at disney are exremely high in price too,35.00 buffets aren't what most would call affordable.I don't consider 150.00 with tip for a family of four to have a buffet reasonable,but hey maybe I'm in the minority!There are tons of affordable food options available in the area.I'll do this much for you,if disney says they will offer no discounts for rooms or food for the year I'll gladly put my money where my mouth is and make you a bet that attendance drops drastically!

 

[KellyNY]

I Googled "Universal Studios $99 promotion" and found an old newspaper article from Orlando sentinel. And if you look at the restrictions, they didn't black out either spring break or July 4, which makes sense if you're trying to get the huge Disney crowds to buy your tickets and come to your park instead. The demographic of people who travel during spring break is kind of exactly who Universal is looking for, so they'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they blacked out their big discount pass during that time.

Universal apparently did that same promotion for several years running -- it was mostly during the years when they weren't opening anything new. It seems to have been offered in 2007, but not 2008 (Simpsons ride opened that year) and then again in 2009.

It's funny ... I can find lots of sites where people kept meticulous track of when Disney prices changed, but can't find anyone who kept track with any other theme park in the world. If we could just get one of those Disney ticket guys to do the research for all the other parks, we would have a gold mine of information!

July 4th applies, the whole July is blackout time, but who said this restriction existed before 2009. I cannot tell you when I went for our spring break, it always a different time, more or less and I cannot be sure if it was during dates you specified but again, we have no information that restrictions even existed before 2009, sadly people do not monitor universal, maybe because prices do not change as often as in disney.

Anyway, it does not change a fact that with this promotion, we paid same price for years and with disney promotions we paid more each year as it was based not on a number but percentage.

So price change to price change, apples to apples, or at least this is how I see this.

 

[flicx]

July 4th applies, the whole July is blackout time, but who said this restriction existed before 2009. I cannot tell you when I went for our spring break, it always a different time, more or less and I cannot be sure if it was during dates you specified but again, we have no information that restrictions even existed before 2009, sadly people do not monitor universal, maybe because prices do not change as often as in disney.

Anyway, it does not change a fact that with this promotion, we paid same price for years and with disney promotions we paid more each year as it was based not on a number but percentage.

So price change to price change, apples to apples, or at least this is how I see this.

I agree Kelly, universal offers better discounts and also front of the line access for resort guests too!

 

[Tiger926]

ok, but what you call many, do you think that whatever number of people you spoke to in recent years, we consider only last few years when changes became more dramatic, to be a true representation of millions of non board visitors. And even if you spend an hour with them, do you trully believe that they would discuss any specifics with a stranger. it just a social conversation, nice and easy and it is not even polite to bring negativity on people you do not know when those people on vacation. I have such conversations every visit and yes we are all excited, it is vacation but none of us going into details or problems, we just giving each other advices on how to plan next day and keep it socialy easy.

you dismiss people on this board to be representation and no, it is not only few members here who speaks up, recently there are more and more complains and people discuss real problems ,not just ansence of towel animals. There are certainly much more people who voice their complains and conserns here then you and me combined had spoken to on vacations for years. And do not forget that many on this very board just keep quiet simply because otherwise they would be labeled complainers, half empty glass people, having unealirtic expectations and many after few comments their way just stop posting at all.

So why we cannot be consiered representation, just because we are a portion of total number of visitors, so what. We have a good representaion here of fist comers, repeated visitors, dvc, families, singles, empty nesters, young, older generation, everything you can think of, so why cant we be considered representation. Think of board as a microgroup but even representation of a big group.

As for the total numbers, how can you say they all happy or even most of them. do we know how many were satisfied and how many found experience overpriced, do we know how many new people enter the gate just because they saw promotion on tv and they will never come back with regular prices, replaced by new tv watchers. do we trully know anything about it. yes disney is popular, magical place and every parent was brain washed into idea that they have to bring their kids there at least once , but what happens when idea becomes reality and they actually see the dream. most cry, when they see castle and grounds which is gorgeous but most also cry when they see bill. we do not know exactly how many and how they feel but can we dismiss them all and just label them as a happy, satisfied customers. I do not think so.

you say numbers are not correct, then why they are posted all the time. Maybe real numbesr are off a bit but can we at least assume that pattern is the right one. strictly from what disney sais and you posted it yourself, fd works, meaning it was needed or should we dismiss this too. should we dismiss that disney running promotions all year long, except few weeks during actual holidays, and should we dismiss that they did not do it before prices reached level when offsite, rental and parking fee became much less then onsite. why do they do that, because accoring to them it brings people in, it works and it is needed . you say disney will change when they need it and see attendance drops but I see what disney does right now as alreay their reaction to the lower attendance in a past.

you say my opinion is based on my feelings, not really, it base on disney reaction I see, and I know no details just like you, but disney action speaks itself and it is difficult to ignore.

Sorry, we will just have to agree to disagree on certain points. I don't want to repeat myself, as that isn't fair to this thread.

Thanks for the discussion, Tiger

 

[WDSearcher]

Yes it is my opinion,one that would be shared by the majority of people IMO.Do you ever look at travel sites such as priceline ,travelocity,or expedia etc.If disney offers no discounts and stay at rack rates it is a laugher,no contest,they can't compete! Almost every other hotel or motel or resort offers discounts and will continue to.This premise that disney can stop all discounts and do just as well is complete lunacy and is arrogant.Heck the two non disney resorts swan and dolphin would make a killing if this would happen.I am not gonna list resort prices,simply put go to any of the above travel sites and compare yourself!The restaurants at disney are exremely high in price too,35.00 buffets aren't what most would call affordable.I don't consider 150.00 with tip for a family of four to have a buffet reasonable,but hey maybe I'm in the minority!There are tons of affordable food options available in the area.I'll do this much for you,if disney says they will offer no discounts for rooms or food for the year I'll gladly put my money where my mouth is and make you a bet that attendance drops drastically!

See ... that's the thing. "I am not gonna list resort prices, simply go to any of the travel sites and compare yourself." No. That's what I asked YOU to do, and you won't do it. Which makes me wonder if you actually know how much any other resort charges at rack rate. I think you're just mad at Disney and think Disney is too high and costs too much and you're going to keep stating that as fact without ever taking the time or effort to actually try and prove it. And my guess is that you don't want to go through that exercise because there's a chance that the difference isn't as dramatic as you think.

Priceline, Travelocity, and Expedia do not list rack rates. They are discount sites. You can use them to compare someone else's discount to Disney's discount, but you can't compare the rates you find there to Disney's rack rate and call it an even comparison. Of course everything there is going to be dirt cheap -- that's what those sites are for. You can't compare Grand Floridian's rack rate to what it costs at an offsite resort on Priceline. That comparison means nothing.

It's also impossible for anyone to know why you're so angry without knowing what you consider "reasonable". Disney resorts clearly aren't, but is there a comparable property at or near Disney whose rack rates you consider "normal" or "reasonable"? You don't even need to look up the numbers. Maybe just give a few examples of resorts that you think are a good value for what they offer. At least that gives us an idea of what sort of range you find reasonable.

And if you find $35 for a buffet unreasonable and unaffordable, don't pay it. Where is it written that everything at WDW must be affordable to everyone? Clearly that price point is reasonable and affordable to the people who are paying it.

Disney has offered discounts and deals from day one and, I imagine, always will. But there are folks out there who are willing to pay Disney rack rates. Those people clearly feel as though those prices are appropriate or they wouldn't pay them. And as long as some segment of the population is willing to pay that, Disney will sell those rooms at that rate. Just like every other resort out there (have you checked Portofino's rack rates lately?). Disney has never said that they would "stop all discounts". They've said that there will come a time where they will reduce the amount of discounts they offer and stop discounting as deeply. They'll do that based on the overall economy. And when the economy rebounds to a point where that happens, every other non-Disney resort will do it too.

You seem to be stuck on the fact that somewhere Disney said that they could cut out all discounts and still do great business. And that Disney is ridiculous and arrogant for saying so. Where did they say this? And if this isn't something Disney said and it's just someone's opinion, why are you so angry about it?

 

[WDSearcher]

July 4th applies, the whole July is blackout time, but who said this restriction existed before 2009. I cannot tell you when I went for our spring break, it always a different time, more or less and I cannot be sure if it was during dates you specified but again, we have no information that restrictions even existed before 2009, sadly people do not monitor universal, maybe because prices do not change as often as in disney.

Anyway, it does not change a fact that with this promotion, we paid same price for years and with disney promotions we paid more each year as it was based not on a number but percentage.

So price change to price change, apples to apples, or at least this is how I see this.

Well ... I will then respectfully disagree and stop arguing the point. I suspect neither one of us will ever convince the other!