Do You think DISNEY has gone down hlll the last few years?

[flicx]

Maybe that's true. But it's not up to us.

Whether anyone wants it to or not, WDW doesn't exist in a vacuum. It is part of the Walt Disney Company. As such, it is part of the WDC overall strategy, and it draws its funds from the same big pool that everything else does. For many years right after 9/11, the Disney theme parks survived because the movie studios were doing well and they were able to somewhat 'subsidize' the theme park division. When the film division does badly, that division is bucked up by ESPN. You may not like it, but it's how the company is set up.

WDW gets its turn for updates and new builds just the same way every other Disney park does. And I don't think that's going to change any time soon.

Not saying it should exist in a vacuum just stating the fact that I am paying for disney world with my money not the rest.The rest is a moot point to a customer who is paying for things at the world.Thus as a disney world customer I expect things to get better or at least stay the same if they want my future business.I can't very well tell disney hey my 401 k isn't doing so well right now so you have to take less for the ticket right now.If it improves in a few years then I'll pay full price!Saying we should be penalized because they wish to improve things elsewhere is definitely not a valid excuse!

 

[KellyNY]

Here's another one ... 8 people walk into a bathroom. The floor is dry. They start talking when they get out. 7 of them believe the floor was wet; 1 says that he didn't notice. So ... even though the floor wasn't wet, 7 of the people perceived it as so. They go back to their group and tell everyone, "The floor was wet." Are they right?

Now you are talking about doctor with delusional patients on a trip. Not noticing and seeing things are 2 different categories.

 

[WDSearcher]

Not saying it should exist in a vacuum just stating the fact that I am paying for disney world with my money not the rest.The rest is a moot point to a customer who is paying for things at the world.Thus as a disney world customer I expect things to get better or at least stay the same if they want my future business.I can't very well tell disney hey my 401 k isn't doing so well right now so you have to take less for the ticket right now.If it improves in a few years then I'll pay full price!Saying we should be penalized because they wish to improve things elsewhere is definitely not a valid excuse!

I totally understand your POV. I just think it's unrealistic. Like any other business, Disney gets to decide its own operating structure. You might be paying for WDW, but WDW gets its funding (for lack of a better term) from The Walt Disney Company. Your ticket price goes to The Walt Disney Company, not necessarily to WDW.

If you feel that the dollars you're paying for WDW are not giving you adequate value, and you want to wait until there is improvement or investment in WDW specifically before you visit again, then that's your decision. A lot of people stopped visiting DCA for that very reason. Others are putting off their next trip to WDW until the new Fantasyland is complete. It's certainly an option. But expecting Disney to change its corporate structure is expecting a little too much, IMO.

 

[WDSearcher]

Now you are talking about doctor with delusional patients on a trip. Not noticing and seeing things are 2 different categories.

Exactly.

 

[KellyNY]

Exactly.

And what was the point, I missed it.

 

[Pat329]

I'm not rabid for Disney. I love it though. I will say that i believe that tings went down hill once free dining entered the picture. It draws in a certain crowd IMHO. SOME of the people are rude and entitled.

So because I like to take advantage of something free from Disney I'm in a crowd of undesirable, rude people???

 

[WDSearcher]

And what was the point, I missed it.

You'd have to check with jimmymac to be sure, since he started it.

My point was that just because a group of people believe something to be true, doesn't necessarily mean it is. It depends on the context.

 

[KellyNY]

You'd have to check with jimmymac to be sure, since he started it.

My point was that just because a group of people believe something to be true, doesn't necessarily mean it is. It depends on the circumstances.

I understand that circumstances mean a lot but I do not think it was appropriet example, unless you try to say that whoever complains might just see thing that not there, sure not what you really ment but comment had this hidden meaning.

 

[brunette8706]

Short answer... Yes.

Long answer addressing what you wrote...

1) None of the Disney food is what it used to be. I mean, it was never the greatest of any category, but I had far more meals I'd consider excellent and outstanding in the 90's than in the 2000's. They homogonized the menus to save money on ingredients and training. This is also the reasoning with the buffets.

2) Its been a couple of years since I have been during December, so I am not sure which lights you mean. But there are some that I wish they would have just ponied up for... or create new overlays. COuntry Bears comes to mind.

3) Yes they have mastered nickel and diming... more so than they used to. It's not going to change. Many of the high ups bonuses are tied to stock performance and business units have to maintain a certain level of profitability. This unfortunately is how the parks people have chosen to do it. If you really want to be disgusted, look at the ticket price history... The rate of growth has increased dramatically over the last 12 years... more so than the previous 17 years when Ticket books went away.

Brazilian Groups - You obviously never saw some of the groups behavior in the 1990's. There was all kinds of messed up stuff... linking arms of a mass of people and forming a moving wall... using bushes as bathrooms (and not just the obvious gender or business you'd assume)... going backstage... inappropriate behavior and clothing (or lack of) at the hotel pools... there were a ton of things. Disney cracked down on it and told the tour groups if they didn't keep them in line, Disney would revoke their status permanently. So now there are videos and such before they come to Disney that they have to watch. Don't get me wrong, they still suck... just not nearly as much.

Honestly, Disney doesn't balance the Value to Cost ratio like they used to. There is definitely a diminished value compared to the cost now than 10-15 years ago.

*
Great post! You really make some valid points.

brunette

 

[brunette8706]

Not to hijack the thread but pm me and I'll give you the story on how I bought my Wyndham for next to nothing and I'll give you some details of BC. No, I make no money, not looking to get a referral or anything. Just trying to help you (or anyone else for that matter) as someone else helped me.

*
Hi! PM me when you get a chance. I would like more information about this. We have a 3 bedroom villa 8 miles from Disney that we go to alot. We also stay at Disney many times also, but only when they have the reduced room only rates.

thanks!
Brunette

 

[d1gitman]

So because I like to take advantage of something free from Disney I'm in a crowd of undesirable, rude people???

yes of course. i take advantage of free DDP and am snarky

see how simpe that was? clearly, people who spend more money are better than us.

 

[Tiger926]

Sorry, not true. Free dining is not being offset by increasing the prices for those of us who are, "paying," for it. Free dining is included when you pay the full rack rate for a room. That's where the free dining is paid for.

I believe (and it's only my opinion), the increase in prices for food is a combination of the following:

-general increase in costs--not something to be dismissed easily.
-incentive--an incentive for everyone to buy free dining. Disney makes out in so many ways when you're even more captive.
-just because--those of us who no longer stay on property don't have the option so they figure they can do it just because.

As usual, YMMV...

I am going to disagree with you here - I firmly believe that Free Dining has cost the Dining Department, and in that respect, they have to make up the money shortfalls. So, they raise prices, and add surcharges. Food prices never used to increase as much as they have the past few years since they introduced Free Dining.

Now, on a grand scale, Free Dining is bringing in more revenue to the theme parks bottom line, but on a smaller scale, it is costing the Dining Department - how can it not? They are actually giving away free product. Paying rack rate for a room has nothing to do with the Dining Department's budget. You have two different divisions sharing a promo, so I am hoping that the Dining Department is billing the resorts, as they are giving away free product in order to run this promo.

It would be interesting to see how Disney rectifies all of the different departments and cross promos that they have running throughout the year.

As a cash guest, I have no doubt that I am funding a revenue shortfall in the Dining Department for Free Dining - how else would they make this up? But, I am probably also supplementing other wastage areas too, like way too many staff working, etc. Disney charges higher prices on the menu, as they have no other choice. People who use the DP, don't pay for their food, they use credits, and people who get Free Dining don't pay for anything, as this package component is given free of charge.

Dining really has gone downhill in the past few years - we've eaten pretty much everywhere, and some of the restaurants have really changed their dishes greatly as of late. We've scratched off many restaurants and are eating in our villa more and more, as paying $26.00 for dry toast is no longer desirable to us.

Tiger

 

[flicx]

I totally understand your POV. I just think it's unrealistic. Like any other business, Disney gets to decide its own operating structure. You might be paying for WDW, but WDW gets its funding (for lack of a better term) from The Walt Disney Company. Your ticket price goes to The Walt Disney Company, not necessarily to WDW.

If you feel that the dollars you're paying for WDW are not giving you adequate value, and you want to wait until there is improvement or investment in WDW specifically before you visit again, then that's your decision. A lot of people stopped visiting DCA for that very reason. Others are putting off their next trip to WDW until the new Fantasyland is complete. It's certainly an option. But expecting Disney to change its corporate structure is expecting a little too much, IMO.

Sorry don't buy into this either.Saying you aren't going to fund any projects because hongkong disney or disneyland needs something is crazy.I really don't think the PR would be too good either on this.Yeah we just raised room, food ,ticket,stroller rentals etc,etc,etc,but we can't do anything to the park because one of our other corporate entities needs financial boosting.Hmm how do you think that would go over.I'm not saying they don't do it mind you but if they do wow is that treating the loyal customers at disney bad! Plus I think it wouldn't be smart business to neglect your cash cow(disney world)!!

 

[Donut23]

My concern was (and mind you I am not saying it ruined my trip, but is an indicator of poor service) that we stopped at the front desk to report the broken chair at least twice and made a few phone calls to the "desk" as well. We also reported it as we checked out as we did not want to find a suprise charge for a broken chair on our credit card. This was coupled with the fact that my sister who was in the room next to ours asked about 3-4 times for a portacrib that never was delivered. This was also requested on the reservation. I shouldn't have to ask that many times for anything at any hotel.

It hasn't stopped me from going back. In fact, we will be going again in January. Fortunately, we haven't had any other hotel issues since then. I guess, in a manner of speaking, our experience has gone uphill since our first on property visit.

DH fell out of a broken balcony chair our first night at BC 3 years ago. We called several times and even mentioned it when we spoke with the resort manager. It WAS dangerous....and it was there when we left 10 days later.

 

[spacemountainmom]

DH fell out of a broken balcony chair our first night at BC 3 years ago. We called several times and even mentioned it when we spoke with the resort manager. It WAS dangerous....and it was there when we left 10 days later.

WOW!

That is pretty bad. I hope he didn't get hurt. You'd really think you'd get some response to that!

 

[Planogirl]

So was the floor wet or not? I'm so confused!

Seriously, I agree that perception is a big part of what we see and that perception will vary from person to person. But isn't that really what all discussions are about? I see a wet floor and you don't and the discussion revolves around whether the floor was actually wet or dry (or maybe just damp). The fact is likely one or the other but we all have reasons for seeing reality differently.

As for Horizons, I heard the bit about the sinkhole and the building about to collapse too. I have my doubts. For one thing, a few CM's have refuted that. I'm not saying that all CM's know everything going on but you'd think that they might hear about that. Also, people watched during demolition and saw no sign of a sinkhole. Also we rode right up to the time the building was closed and beyond the time it was supposedly about to collapse. I doubt that Disney would allow people in a building that was so unsafe.

Just conjecture...

 

[waldiddy]

I have to agree about the dining quality. We've made a few trips between 2006 and 2010, and, over the past 4 years, have noticed a remarkable decline in the food along with a huge increase in prices for meals, tickets, parking, etc.

We're going again in 2011 BUT ... we're staying off-site in a resort with a lot more legroom than we could get onsite and most of our meals will also be off-site as well. In my mind, I simply can't justify the cost vs the quality of onsite food. We may do a couple of restaurants in the parks, but it won't be nearly as many as we've done before.

 

[Donut23]

You'd have to check with jimmymac to be sure, since he started it.

My point was that just because a group of people believe something to be true, doesn't necessarily mean it is. It depends on the context.

Yes, this is true. You have birthers. You have Creationists. You have lots of circumstances where belief flies in the face of reality and they have the right to believe so. Too much like sophistry for me though. A litle trivia hint for those who will be fortunate enough to be at MK for Christmas - check out how many Christmas decorations the are in the entire park (absent the Christmas Store) that are outside camera range of the Regis and Kelly Christmas show

 

[GadgetRick]

I am going to disagree with you here - I firmly believe that Free Dining has cost the Dining Department, and in that respect, they have to make up the money shortfalls. So, they raise prices, and add surcharges. Food prices never used to increase as much as they have the past few years since they introduced Free Dining.

Now, on a grand scale, Free Dining is bringing in more revenue to the theme parks bottom line, but on a smaller scale, it is costing the Dining Department - how can it not? They are actually giving away free product. Paying rack rate for a room has nothing to do with the Dining Department's budget. You have two different divisions sharing a promo, so I am hoping that the Dining Department is billing the resorts, as they are giving away free product in order to run this promo.

It would be interesting to see how Disney rectifies all of the different departments and cross promos that they have running throughout the year.

As a cash guest, I have no doubt that I am funding a revenue shortfall in the Dining Department for Free Dining - how else would they make this up? But, I am probably also supplementing other wastage areas too, like way too many staff working, etc. Disney charges higher prices on the menu, as they have no other choice. People who use the DP, don't pay for their food, they use credits, and people who get Free Dining don't pay for anything, as this package component is given free of charge.

Dining really has gone downhill in the past few years - we've eaten pretty much everywhere, and some of the restaurants have really changed their dishes greatly as of late. We've scratched off many restaurants and are eating in our villa more and more, as paying $26.00 for dry toast is no longer desirable to us.

Tiger

Sorry but they're NOT losing money. Typically, in larger organizations like this, the department (in this case Dining) receives revenue credits for the customs they receive. Remember, it's all Disney and they move the money around appropriately.

Even if they aren't doing things this way, Disney--the company--is absolutely making out with the DDP. If they weren't they would have gotten rid of if long ago.

I'm positive they do it this was because, when I used my DVC membership to stay at non-DVC resorts on property, it was explained to me why they needed so much notice if you were doing it. Basically, DVC pays the resort for the stay. Ok, DVC is sort of a different company (spinoff from Disney if you will) so it's slightly different but this is how it's done within organizations like this with promos like the DDP.

Sorry, they are not losing money in any way, shape or form on the DDP. I'm talking about Disney the company. I don't really care whether the dining group within Disney is losing money but I doubt they are as well.

Not an excuse to raise the prices.

 

[Tiger926]

Sorry but they're NOT losing money. Typically, in larger organizations like this, the department (in this case Dining) receives revenue credits for the customs they receive. Remember, it's all Disney and they move the money around appropriately.

Even if they aren't doing things this way, Disney--the company--is absolutely making out with the DDP. If they weren't they would have gotten rid of if long ago.

I'm positive they do it this was because, when I used my DVC membership to stay at non-DVC resorts on property, it was explained to me why they needed so much notice if you were doing it. Basically, DVC pays the resort for the stay. Ok, DVC is sort of a different company (spinoff from Disney if you will) so it's slightly different but this is how it's done within organizations like this with promos like the DDP.

Sorry, they are not losing money in any way, shape or form on the DDP. I'm talking about Disney the company. I don't really care whether the dining group within Disney is losing money but I doubt they are as well.

Not an excuse to raise the prices.

I think we are somewhat agreeing on a few things.

I think the only way to not lose revenue is to bill back to the Resorts Dept., as it's a shared promo. As you mentioned, they do this when us DVC members book a Cruise, or Adventures by Disney. But, since I don't know if they are doing this, I was discussing the product giveaway itself as a loss of revenue. The Dining Dept. is giving away their product, in order to secure revenues for another department, namely the Resorts Dept. I would bet it's heavily discounted, and that they are only paying cost for the product, but I was actually talking about all associated costs like the extra wages/staff associated with this promo as well. Do you think they are also billing that back to the resorts as well? But, you bring up a good point, that over the course of the year, they probably make up extra money, so this would also be another cushion for the Dining Dept. during the Free Dining Promo period. But, since it goes for most of the next year, I wonder how it will stack up?

On the grand scale of things, I have no doubt that the Dining Plan itself is not losing Disney any money, or they would have deleted it - you and I will agree there. Plus, with the amount of lost credits that guests don't use, they are making up revenues there as well. I have no doubt that the Dining Plan on a grand scale is a cash cow for Disney, over the whole year, and I wonder where their threshold level is? $50.00/pp or $60.00/pp for Reg. DP?

We are lucky to be able to qualify for the TIW card as we have an AP, but if not, we wouldn't be using the DP. BTDT, and don't like the restrictions, plus, we can't stand how much it's gone up over the past few years.

It sure would be interesting to see how Disney rectifies all of the different promos within the different departments though, especially this year with Free Dining going for the whole year.

Tiger