Do you think a college professor has the right to do this?

[declansdad]

Ah well, when she started class her hours were different. This has been for the last 4 weeks. I have no idea what the syllabus says, and she made no mention of it.

My thoughts are that she is an adult woman, with adult responsibilities, doing all she can to further / improve herself. It isn't like she is an 18 year old kids who is a wiseguy. In her shoes, I do believe I agree with what she said, entirely. Plus, she paid the money, so she's supposed to get taught.

BTW, this is a community college class we are talking about, not Ivy League or anything. To me, it just sounds like a professor that is too full of himself.

What difference does the type of school make? It has no bearing on the situation at all!

 

[redlight]

What difference does the type of school make? It has no bearing on the situation at all!

Agreed.

The student should have talked to the professor beforehand of of courtesy. I'm sure that the professor has had to deal with many disruptive students in the past, and laid down the rules for a good reason.

 

[mumom95]

I teach math part time at the college level. I teach at one of the branch campuses, so a lot of my students are older, more non-traditional students.

I have had students for various reasons have to be late consistently (getting kids on the bus, work, etc). As long as the student speaks to me at the beginning of the semester to explain, I do not dock their attendance grade (which is 3% of their total grade). When I give quizzes it is sometimes at the beginning of class, so they may take a zero on that part of their grade and they do not get any extended time during test days.

If a student has not spoken to me about being late and they are not there at the beginning when I take attendance, then they get marked absent. If they come in late it is their responsibility to come up to me after class to ask me to change them from absent to present. I also have in my syllabus that if a student misses more than 5 classes I can drop them from the course.

I will say students coming in late to my class is a big pet peeve of mine. And I have told students who come in late and want me to stay after class to go over what they missed, no. If they can't bother getting to my class on time, I am not going to spend my time to go over things with them. They will have to come to my office during my office hours to go over something.

 

[ols386]

And I absolutely ADORE your username as well!!!

That's funny. Did you two get together when selecting your i.d.'s?

 

[Arielle22]

When I was in college at night I had 2 young daughters (one of whom was sick) while working full time.

I had knee surgery in Dec and when school resumed in Jan I had to stretch my leg out on an unused chair. I made sure to explain to the teacher because I knew that it would be noticed and I wanted her to know I was not being disrespectful.

In another class the teacher asked a male student to remove his baseball cap and shut off his laptop. He refused so she told him to leave (in front of the class). He left and did not return.

OP, your niece was entirely in the wrong and rude to boot. The professor didn't embarass her, she embarassed herself.

I am not perfect but I would never say I would not leave without security. What was she planning on doing if he called security? Would she then refuse to leave unless the police were called?

 

[Witch Mountain]

I wonder if this had been you, any of you, whether you would have had the same response. I doubt it, if in the same situation. I will concede that it would have been wise to approach him, but she didn't. But I surely doubt that ALL of the people here who say she was 100% wrong would feel that way had it been you. In fact, as I read the posts of many of you, I can tell you all weren't / are perfect wonderful beings, and I just can't see some of you not doing something similar.

I am a college student (graduate program) in my 40s and I can honestly tell you that the rare occasions where I would be late or miss a class, my professors were informed ahead of time or received an email. School is no different than a job and my boss would expect the same.

No, I'm not perfect, but I can tell you that EVERY syllabus I have in my possession (19 and counting) has an attendance policy in it. Many teachers deduct for repeated lateness.

I see several problems here:
Your niece didn't inform the instructor
Your niece obviously didn't check her syllabus for attendance information
Your niece didn't inform her boss that she has class two nights a week and needs to leave 15 minutes earlier in order to be there on time.
Your niece mouthed off to the professor in an extremely immature manner

Just the past two nights, I had the last class session for graduate classes. Both professors informed us that we would be earning our full participation grades (in this program, 10% of the grade). You can bet your bippy if any of us had displayed the disrespect your niece did, those points would be gone-along with the possibility of earning an A in the course.

 

[WDWBlue]

Last night I was chatting with a niece of mine. She's 31 years old, has a FT job, and is a mom to 3 kids. She attends college PT.

Her job requires her to stay until 7PM... she gets to class at 7:40, but class starts at 7:30. She tells me that she slips in the door and quietly takes a seat in the back row, so as to cause as little disturbance as possible.

During last week's class, the professor told her to leave the class, and that she was no longer welcome. My niece told me that she told the professor that if he wanted her out of the class, then he had better call security and the dean, because she wasn't leaving. The professor said he would talk to the dean, and then make a decision on whether she would be allowed back in class. Then he resumed teaching.

So she and I were discussing what the outcome might be. She goes to this class on Thursday nights. I'm guessing that it will be a non issue. She's not so sure.

Whaddya think?

BTW, not that it really matters, but she said she was feeling like she was going to earn a "B", in class... and now, if she stays, she's wondering if she will still get the grade she expects.

From post #8:

Ah well, when she started class her hours were different. This has been for the last 4 weeks.

Absolutely, as much for what she was doing as for how she responded. She should have been removed from the class for insolence too. No refund, no grade, just an incomplete.

But I bet it would be a valuable lesson none the less....

 

[WDWBlue]

BTW, this is a community college class we are talking about, not Ivy League or anything. To me, it just sounds like a professor that is too full of himself.

I get it. Because it's a lowly community college, the professor and the other students are entitled to the same respect as some other universities.

Maybe she knocked over an ash tray, do they have those too?

 

[s____!]

I've had professors lock the doors as soon as class starts. If you're late then that's just too bad. I sometimes take the bus to school, and one day it was running really late and I didn't make it to campus until 10 minutes after class started, so I just got back on and went home.
People walking into class late is always a distraction. I instinctively turn around whenever anyone enters the room, as do most of my classmates. It really doesn't matter how quiet or courteous you're trying to be.

 

[HeatherH]

Okay, to add to the pile on ....of COURSE the professor has the right to do this! Just look back at the pages and pages of people telling you specific instances of college professors enforcing this and you'll see the same info from me.

What I find incredulous is that YOU think she will be fine, like it's no big deal. Really? She acted like a petulant child when confronted, and she didn't do the REAL adult thing and let the prof know that she had work conflict issues that might cause her to be late.

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but I couldn't resist. My bad.

 

[npmommie]

I was pregnant with my first child when I was in grad school, she arrived a couple weeks early, on the day I was to give my final presentation for almost half my grade for one class.
My water had broken, I was about to leave for the hospital, but I made darn sure I called my professor before I left to tell her why I would not be in class that evening

OP I think your niece should have talked to the professor to let him know about her work conflict.

 

[Witch Mountain]

BCB, you work, right? How would your boss react if twice a week if you showed up 10-15 minutes late for work for the past month?

 

[Jessica86]

I agree with many here that your niece should have notified the professor of her situation. I am currently in a masters program geered towards professionals and the professors are very understanding if you communicate with them. My feeling of the way the professor handled it is a little different from most. He is a paid employee of this institution and as one he should act professionally. I do not think kicking someone out of class while it is in session is professional. He should have waited and pulled her aside at the end. Your niece could have also responded in a professional manner but I think that it is hard to have your wits about you when you are put on the spot. Sometimes a knee jerk reaction kicks in and people say things they regret. Professors are only human and I have had wonderful ones but I have also had ones that were control freaks who enjoyed a power struggle. Hopefully your niece can admit to her wrongs as well as the professor and she can stay in the class.

College is similar to a job but the one big difference is a job pays you while you pay thousands for college. In addition I would hope that a manager would take someone in his office to speak to them about being late as opposed to doing it in an all staff meeting.

OP good luck to your niece-sounds like she has her hands full and I think it's great she is trying to get her degree despite this setback.

 

[Leajess99]

Ah well, when she started class her hours were different. This has been for the last 4 weeks. I have no idea what the syllabus says, and she made no mention of it.

My thoughts are that she is an adult woman, with adult responsibilities, doing all she can to further / improve herself. It isn't like she is an 18 year old kids who is a wiseguy. In her shoes, I do believe I agree with what she said, entirely. Plus, she paid the money, so she's supposed to get taught.

BTW, this is a community college class we are talking about, not Ivy League or anything. To me, it just sounds like a professor that is too full of himself.

Honestly, this does NOT matter. I am also an adult woman with adult responsibilities also attending a community college and then a University and my Professors all had attendance rules in their syllabi.

No matter how quietly she thinks she is, she is still disrupting and distracting someone. I have children with ADD/ADHD and what she is doing would cause them to become distracted and make them work harder to get back focused. It also distracts the Professor who loses his concentration and then has to get back on track.

I'm sorry but she is being rude and it may have been different if she had talked to this guy first or maybe she needs to talk to work about getting off early enough to be in class on time.

As for the money thing, she may have paid but so did the other 20 plus students (or however many are in that class). If her work schedule is an issue than perhaps she might need to look at online classes for the future.

 

[Leajess99]

On that point, I agree, but when I went to college - and I didn't start until age 21 - it was all the 18 year old freshmen that I saw intentionally acting like idiots, and not the adults.

So yeah, she probably could or should have spoken to the professor, but I don't think she expected her hours to remain the same when they changed. I think she thought it was just for a couple of weeks, and it didn't turn out that way.

I still think the professor was wrong too, though. He ALSO could have just pulled her aside - in private - instead of trying to make her look bad in front of the class.

At the university I attended, it was the football players that were acting like idiots. They were taking Criminal Justice courses and the group in my first class would come in high (the smell was so strong that a couple of students had to leave the room), be late, be talking, etc. That was all under the old football coach who was fired after that year. Our Professor made him aware of what was going on but it did not get better.

 

[Leajess99]

I wonder if this had been you, any of you, whether you would have had the same response. I doubt it, if in the same situation. I will concede that it would have been wise to approach him, but she didn't. But I surely doubt that ALL of the people here who say she was 100% wrong would feel that way had it been you. In fact, as I read the posts of many of you, I can tell you all weren't / are perfect wonderful beings, and I just can't see some of you not doing something similar.

I have had my schedule changed while taking classes and I made it work by communicating with the professor. Same thing when I attended the University and had to miss days because I had to take my children out of state for their visitation with their father. I NEVER just blew off my responsibility to let my instructors know the situation.

Getting upset because people are not siding with you or your niece is really childlike. You don't know the people on here who have repsonded but I know what I have been through as an adult, non-traditional student. I acted like an adult by taking responsibility for MY actions and by talking to my instructors when I had to miss a class. It did NOT matter to me what the syllabus said about attendance policy if one was not mandatory, I still informed my instructors and showed respect to them.

My son will be heading off to college in less than 4 months and I have told him the same thing about being responsible. Your niece showed her work was more important and she did not care to disrupt the other students or the professor therefore she has to pay the consequence.

 

[Leajess99]

People left about half way through my son's class the other day and the prof retook attendance.

I had one professor who would take attendance at the beginning and end of every class period. It was funny because people knew it would affect their grades but many just walked out anyway. One class period he threw an eraser at a sleeping football player. Dude was told either pay attention or get out. He never slept in class again.

 

[Jessica86]

Honestly, this does NOT matter. I am also an adult woman with adult responsibilities also attending a community college and then a University and my Professors all had attendance rules in their syllabi.

No matter how quietly she thinks she is, she is still disrupting and distracting someone. I have children with ADD/ADHD and what she is doing would cause them to become distracted and make them work harder to get back focused. It also distracts the Professor who loses his concentration and then has to get back on track.

I'm sorry but she is being rude and it may have been different if she had talked to this guy first or maybe she needs to talk to work about getting off early enough to be in class on time.

As for the money thing, she may have paid but so did the other 20 plus students (or however many are in that class). If her work schedule is an issue than perhaps she might need to look at online classes for the future.

I think online classes are a great idea......as far as the distractions from someone walking into class, it is quite a pain but college prepares us for a career and the "real world". Distractions are always a part of that world, while on the job a person may be working on a project but the phone rings, someone stops to talk to them, a sudden meeting is called....it is a total pain but is part of the job. It is unfair that other students have to deal with this distraction but distractions are a part of life. Maybe some of the students don't mind because they think it is great that a mom of three, working a fulltime job is making a great attempt to get a degree. Shouldn't college also teach us how to be tolerant and human?

 

[hambirg]

I think online classes are a great idea......as far as the distractions from someone walking into class, it is quite a pain but college prepares us for a career and the "real world". Distractions are always a part of that world, while on the job a person may be working on a project but the phone rings, someone stops to talk to them, a sudden meeting is called....it is a total pain but is part of the job. It is unfair that other students have to deal with this distraction but distractions are a part of life. Maybe some of the students don't mind because they think it is great that a mom of three, working a fulltime job is making a great attempt to get a degree. Shouldn't college also teach us how to be tolerant and human?

But college should also teach you how to be responsible for your own life. If you have a scheduling conflict. . .you better learn how to make that clear and find a solution. It is NOT the profs job to read your mind. You would not expect that in a job situation. .. how is this different?

I have actually had profs that have said that they don't care at all what your attendance is. . .but you are dang well responsible for the coursework. I thought that was great. . .but I learned right quick that it wasn't that easy and you have to be there everyday, on time. . .or you were scr*wed.

Again. . .if you can't figure out what collegiate life is all about than maybe you don't deserve to be there. The profs only responsibility is to be there and to lecture. . .everything else in college is on you. Studying. . .getting notes. . forming study groups. ..scheduling a meeting during office hours. . .that's all on you! We are not talking about jr high or even high school. Profs are NOT going to track you down when you have a missing assignment! It's not their job!!! You are a supposed adult. . . act like one!

It IS like a real life job. I've had some great bosses. . and some not so good. BUT you have to be proactive. They can't read your mind. ..and it's really not their job to. There are other people lined up behind you. . .just waiting. Same for college. I went to a CC and seriously had some of my best profs there. . .BUT there are waiting lists. . not everybody gets into every class. If you are going to act like an ignoramus taking somebody elses spot. . then keep moving! This niece was WAY out of line! I seriously can't believe that she thought showing up late for that many weeks and not bringing it up to the prof was ok. REALLY?? What friggin planet is she from?

And then to top it off with that entitlement attitude. . .I'm paying so you have to teach me crap?! Uh. . .so what? It's akin to somebody that only shows up when they feel like it or doesn't do any of the outside studying and gets mad that they haven't learned enough to pass the class. This is NOT high school! It's more rigorous and it's all up to you! If you can't cut it. .. than you can't. Move aside and open a spot for somebody that understands that you speak up as soon as you have as scheduling conflict! Grow up or get out!

 

[goofy!]

Ah well, when she started class her hours were different. This has been for the last 4 weeks. I have no idea what the syllabus says, and she made no mention of it.

My thoughts are that she is an adult woman, with adult responsibilities, doing all she can to further / improve herself. It isn't like she is an 18 year old kids who is a wiseguy. In her shoes, I do believe I agree with what she said, entirely. Plus, she paid the money, so she's supposed to get taught.

BTW, this is a community college class we are talking about, not Ivy League or anything. To me, it just sounds like a professor that is too full of himself.

Of course the professor had a right to kick her out. I won't address how childish and rude your cough, cough "niece" (me thinks the OP doth protest too much) was as there are 10 pages already doing that.

However, just because she paid for the class does not mean she gets to do whatever she wants.

As everybody else has mentioned, all the other students also paid for their class.

And part of paying is also paying for the reputation of the school and the degree. In order for the school and the degree to have some sort of credibility, there has to be standards as to how one can obtain that degree. In every school I or my kids have attended, one of those standards has always been an attendance policy.

If everybody could just do whatever they wanted with no regards to the policies, the school would then become known as a "diploma factory". Which in turn would cheapen the degree of the other students paying for their degree.

So, yes, the professor had every right to kick your niece out of the class. He was upholding the standards set by the school, protecting the credibility of his class and thus protecting the investment of all the other students.