Do you ever watch your neighbor's children as a favor? You might be breaking the law.

[mtemm]

You should see the comments facebook. Our community is not happy with the neighbor.

the neighbor who is taking in kids or the neighbor who complained?

 

[Mickeypooh99]

the neighbor who is taking in kids or the neighbor who complained?

The neighbor who complained.

 

[Luv2Scrap]

If this woman isn't accepting payment for these kids, then I don't see it as any different than having a birthday party or slumber party where all the parents leave. Is that illegal in Michigan, too?

 

[TwinsinCA]

I will stop short of vilifying the neighbor until I know just how much she knew. Just because she is a neighbor doesn't mean she automatically knows this was an arrangement among friends and I certainly don't expect that she'd know it was done for free. IF she knew all this and still reported them, I agree with the PPs who say she needs to MYOB. But If she wasn't privy to all those details I don't think reporting a possibly unlicensed daycare is such a horrible thing.

 

[AndyLL]

If this woman isn't accepting payment for these kids, then I don't see it as any different than having a birthday party or slumber party where all the parents leave. Is that illegal in Michigan, too?

Do you have 28 day slumber parties?

 

[cybrkitn]

plus nosy neighbors.

I saw this on the news yesterday morning. Looks like this particular "neighbor" needs to mind their own business and just worry about themselves. The so-called "charge" will most likely be dropped anyway.

 

[Luv2Scrap]

Do you have 28 day slumber parties?

Nope, but I know people whose kids have their friends over often enough that they'd probably be in trouble for it in MI.

 

[mtemm]

wow, so they know who complained?

any idea what her story/motivation is? I'm very curious here.

 

[boettj]

Wow, I just can't believe that is a law. This country is going legislate itself to death.

My wife does at home daycare, and in the past has had 1 or 2 kids for before or after school. With laws like this who needs the headache. Whether she is paid or not should not matter. So long as the parents work it out among themselves, the school and the bus company, it's no one else business.

 

[DizBelle]

Do you have 28 day slumber parties?

Of course not BUT....

The type of thing that seems like it would be illegal under the law is if your child's best friend came over for 20 afternoons in a year. You are watching that child for 4 weeks' time. It doesn't matter if those visits lasted only 15 minutes each and they were only once a week. If that child came to your house on 20 different days (they do not have to be consecutive) and you were "watching" them, and you are not a licensed day care provider, you have just broken the law.

That seems completely unreasonable.

Think about it. Does your child have a friend that's come over to your home 20 times in the last calendar year?

 

[AndyLL]

Nope, but I know people whose kids have their friends over often enough that they'd probably be in trouble for it in MI.

That would be my wife. But we've only seen the summary of the law. Typically there will be pages of legalees and definitions and exclusions.

I know it's hard to believe that 1000s of tv, radio, blogs and forums would be discussioning this case without reading the law but sometimes it happens.

Even to me it's obviously a difference when someone is providing a daily, scheduled before/after school day care while parents are at work and friends playing at each other houses.

Does the shortness of time and lack of pay move this case out of before school care and into another category? Beats me.

Wow, I just can't believe that is a law. This country is going legislate itself to death.

My wife does at home daycare, and in the past has had 1 or 2 kids for before or after school. With laws like this who needs the headache. Whether she is paid or not should not matter. So long as the parents work it out among themselves, the school and the bus company, it's no one else business.

Of course when unlicensed care providers hire pediphiles or children are abused or any other number of issues that in the past have gone wrong with child care people are quick to scream about government allowing it to happen.

 

[barkley]

Wow, I just can't believe that is a law. This country is going legislate itself to death.

My wife does at home daycare, and in the past has had 1 or 2 kids for before or after school. With laws like this who needs the headache. Whether she is paid or not should not matter. So long as the parents work it out among themselves, the school and the bus company, it's no one else business.

it could be someone else's buisness given the way the current law is written, depending on the set up of the neighborhood.

someone else who lives in the area posted that it's very rural with no sidewalks. we live in a similar neighborhood, and the busses and all the cars have to travel to certain homes and bus-stops on what is technicaly private property owned by allot of us individualy (and not the homeowners whose house/bus stop they are using). the way our easements are set up and our insurance is maintained, some private property easements exclude 'buisness' traffic, some can use it but the buisness that people are accessing has to be licensed,insured and bonded. if one of us that owns part of the roads knows about 'business' traffic and does'nt take steps to either stop it (if the easement does'nt allow for it) or verify it's lic. status (if it's allowed) we can be in for a poop storm of liability if something happens. since that state currently considers this kind of arrangement as one requiring a lic. it definatly can be a major concern for a neighbor.

unfortunatly there are neighbors who don't take this into consideration where we live, and it's caused some major liability issues.

where we live it would'nt be considered a day-care setting for what these parents were doing-it's specificaly spoken to in our child care laws so the liability would be on the individual homeowner who agreed to let the kids be there. if the state this happened in wants to make such provisions they have only to tweak the laws that are on the books.

 

[Kurby]

oh my god - i just read this

so basically if my daughter wants to do the same thing i did when i was growing up (have her friends come over to play after school and before dinner) we'd be breaking the law???


how far is the government going to go??

i can understand unregulated daycares but if there is no money exchanged it's not a daycare it's children playing with friends until the bus comes -

give me a break -

chances are some nosy neighbour with too much time on her hands called and said it was a daycare - why else would she get the letter so fast

 

[laurie31]

What about babysitters? For years I worked 3-11, 7on-7off, and I paid a teen come over and sit with my girls for the 90 minutes between the time I left for work and DH gets home. So that was 26 weeks a year that she kept my kids.

Was my teen sitter breaking the law? She did report the income on her taxes (I know, because she called me to find out how much I paid her for the year - lol) so it wasn't "under the table" at all.

OOOh! I just realized! I'm about to start doing this myself! The mother of one of DD's friends called me and asked if I could pick up her dd from after-school sports when I picked up mine. She said she can't afford after-school care this year. It will only be 45 minutes from the time she gets out of the practice until her mother gets home, and it's only 2 days a week. I said sure, no problem.

DD is thrilled that her friend will get to come over two days a week, and no, I'm not asking for any money. I'm going to pick up DD anyway, it's no skin off my teeth for her to have a friend over for 45 minutes. They live just a few blocks away, so her mom will swing by and pick her up on her way home. I think this is not an illegal thing to do in this state, but if it is, I don't really care! I'm happy to help out a friend. It's not like she can leave work an hour early twice a week, every week until April!

I start tomorrow! I'll let you know if the cops show up! LOL!

 

[barkley]

What about babysitters? For years I worked 3-11, 7on-7off, and I paid a teen come over and sit with my girls for the 90 minutes between the time I left for work and DH gets home. So that was 26 weeks a year that she kept my kids.

Was my teen sitter breaking the law? She did report the income on her taxes (I know, because she called me to find out how much I paid her for the year - lol) so it wasn't "under the table" at all.

OOOh! I just realized! I'm about to start doing this myself! The mother of one of DD's friends called me and asked if I could pick up her dd from after-school sports when I picked up mine. She said she can't afford after-school care this year. It will only be 45 minutes from the time she gets out of the practice until her mother gets home, and it's only 2 days a week. I said sure, no problem.

DD is thrilled that her friend will get to come over two days a week, and no, I'm not asking for any money. I'm going to pick up DD anyway, it's no skin off my teeth for her to have a friend over for 45 minutes. They live just a few blocks away, so her mom will swing by and pick her up on her way home. I think this is not an illegal thing to do in this state, but if it is, I don't really care! I'm happy to help out a friend. It's not like she can leave work an hour early twice a week, every week until April!

I start tomorrow! I'll let you know if the cops show up! LOL!

i think with the babysitter situation it would'nt be a problem because it was in YOUR home-she was an independant contractor who came into your home to provide services for a set fee.

i can't see anyone hassling you about this kind of issue, and i honestly suspect that if the information about the nature of the complaint in the news ever comes to light, the complaining neighbor is going to say they thought it was a real daycare situation (which according to the law in that state it apparantly technicaly is) because there were multiple cars dropping kids off every school day.

i feel for the social services staffer whose name went out on that letter-they are taking the flack for doing their job:administering the regulations. the person who sends the letter is'nt the person responsible for interpreting the regulations, that's done at a much higher level and the person writing the letter likely would have been in violation of another law if they had'nt done exactly what they did. earlier today i went to that state's child care lic. laws website-it's a law that is written such that there's no provision to have exempted this mom so blame the idiots that drafted and passed it.

 

[boettj]

it could be someone else's buisness given the way the current law is written, depending on the set up of the neighborhood.

someone else who lives in the area posted that it's very rural with no sidewalks. we live in a similar neighborhood, and the busses and all the cars have to travel to certain homes and bus-stops on what is technicaly private property owned by allot of us individualy (and not the homeowners whose house/bus stop they are using). the way our easements are set up and our insurance is maintained, some private property easements exclude 'buisness' traffic, some can use it but the buisness that people are accessing has to be licensed,insured and bonded. if one of us that owns part of the roads knows about 'business' traffic and does'nt take steps to either stop it (if the easement does'nt allow for it) or verify it's lic. status (if it's allowed) we can be in for a poop storm of liability if something happens. since that state currently considers this kind of arrangement as one requiring a lic. it definatly can be a major concern for a neighbor.

unfortunatly there are neighbors who don't take this into consideration where we live, and it's caused some major liability issues.

where we live it would'nt be considered a day-care setting for what these parents were doing-it's specificaly spoken to in our child care laws so the liability would be on the individual homeowner who agreed to let the kids be there. if the state this happened in wants to make such provisions they have only to tweak the laws that are on the books.

I think I am missing your point Barkley. If the women is not doing it as a business, then are you saying that she would not be liable for the kids?

I could see if this women was running a daycare without the proper licensing. Meaning she was taking money to watch these kids. However, the way the article reads is that they have some type of agreement (non-monetary).

 

[merryweather20]

Even to me it's obviously a difference when someone is providing a daily, scheduled before/after school day care while parents are at work and friends playing at each other houses.

Where? The only difference I see is that if they come over to play you don't know where the parent is, and here you know they are on their way to work.

Every other element is the same.

 

[C.Ann]

My DGD's best friend comes from a divorced family.. Mom & Dad rotate the days during which time they have her.. Her mom lives right in my DD's neighborhood (thus the friend attends the same school as my DGD) and her dad lives a few miles away in the next school district..

On the mom's days to have her (she works), she allows her DD to get off the bus with my DGD and spend a few hours there.. She does her homework (DGD usually has her done already when she comes home due to her class schedule); they hang out; play outside; and sometimes she'll stay for dinner.. Sometimes dad will do this as well and when he comes to pick her up, he usually stays and visits with my DD's DH for an hour or two shooting the breeze..

There's no money exchanged - the words "childcare" or "babysitting" have never been mentioned - and if DD decides on any given day that the friend can't/shouldn't be there after school for whatever reason, my DGD will just call her on the phone the night before and tell her she can't get off the bus there the next day.. (In which case if it's "mom's" day, the friend will get off the bus at the home of the childcare provider for her baby sister - go home to her own house - or if it's dad's day, he will pick her up at school..)

So - is DD breaking any laws? As far as I'm concerned, she's not.. She's simply allowing her DD's friend to come home from school with her on any given day and spend several hours there - no different than if the friend rode the bus all the way to her own home and then just turned around and walked back to my DD's house..

These types of laws really irritate me - but - they're the end result of people who put up a fuss because they believe we need "laws" to govern everything from what color trash bags you can use to how often we need to mow our lawns.. As long as there are people who continue to insist that everyone should conform to their standards (based solely on their own personal needs and wants - even if they are in the minority) we will continue to read and hear about ridiculous laws such as this..