do you ever feel guilty?

[disykat]

But the original question wasn't about saving something... The OP and most of the posters who have weighed in on the pro-vacation side have indicated that they are saving something. The guilt arose from not saving more.

Yes, and none of the posters on the pro-college side are saying they NEVER go on vacation. It's just a matter of which you prioritize.

I think vacations are important, I just think being able to help my children go through college without having to do the whole thing on student loans is more important.

We went on vacation every single year. They just weren't annual WDW vacations because we live too far and most years the airfare money went in the college fund.

Certainly there are people who can't afford to help their children with college. It is just some of our opinions that people who have lots of deluxe style vacations aren't some of those people.

Obviously, none of us get to choose what other people prioritize or how they spend their money. Prefering your own choice and finding the choices others make puzzling sometimes is just par for the course.

 

[sk!mom]

I agree with this. If we magically had millions, I still wouldn't pay for college for my kids. I would, however, invite them and their families to join us on fabulous vacations!

I firmly believe in the permanent character benefits of bootstrapping. I do not feel guilty in the least about taking vacations instead of putting money into a college fund. I signed up to provide "financial aid" for 18 years; I will not extend my kids' childhood by signing on for a second tour!

I wonder if those with this attitude have a clear picture of the huge cost of college these days- even a mid level State University. Yes, when DH and I were in College the cost was manageable with "bootstrapping" as you phrase it. The cost now is much less so.

My DH worked his way through in the 80's and graduated with less than $10,000 in debt. The cost was so much less at that time that he was able to work full time in the Summer and 25-30 hours a week during the school terms and cover the majority. His loans were mostly due to the unexpected expenses that life throws at you that someone working their way through college with no parental support does not have an emergency fund to cover. My education was fully funded through scholarships.

Fast forward to today. Our DD17 is an excellent student. (I know, I know just like every Dis kid.) But really she's top 10% in a 600 student class. She has solid ACT/SAT scores and an AP heavy transcript. She had no trouble gaining acceptance to her top choice schools. She ended up choosing a State University. She, so far, has $6000 in scholarships. This is a drop in the bucket against the total cost. A cost that a 17 year old would have a very difficult time earning.

My DD is a much stronger student with much stronger scores than I had but most Universities endowments have not kept up with the soaring cost.

 

[abmitch01]

"Because those trips were when we bonded as a family. My dad, my mom, my sister and me. I wouldn't have traded that time with my family for a college fund. There are many ways to attend college. There are many colleges to attend. You get ONE family.

Flash forward to e now grown up with a son of my own. I instituted a summer family vacation with him and my husband. Not two weeks but ten days. We saved zero for my son's college. My son? He's graduating this summer with a master's degree. I just spent a weekend with him in Gatlinburg, TN and we had a great time remember all the trips we took together when he was growing up.

College is achievable at any time at any place. Vacations might just happen a few times.[/QUOTE]


thank you for this!

 

[abmitch01]

one funny thing with my 15 yo DD is when we were going over Feb break and spending so much even staying offsite, I said "for this much, we could go to Paris." She said, "yabbut we'd be running around trying to see everything because we'd only go once. We'll do that when I'm older. Disney is my home."

and this from a kid who loves art museums and has Paris pictures all over her room. You're never too old for Disney, I guess. I think it has this way of making us bond. Because while I love Disney and adore Soarin', it's the way my family interacts when we're there that I love the most.

 

[danygirl]

Dd17 had a full tuition scholarship to her preferred college. Her expenses are less than 10k per year and the school sets a four year rate with no increase. She could conceivably pay for at least 5o percent

 

[BubMunkeyBles]

My parents have a large income but made the mistake of investing for college in the stock market. Had basically nothing when I started college in 2003. I didn't even qualify for subsidized loans until I got married (after I already graduated with my bachelors). I had a good amount of student loans for my bachelors but I don't mind and it was my choice to go through college how I did (no community college etc). We travelled a lot growing up and I wouldn't trade any of those memories and experiences for being debt free in student loans right now. We are saving for my kids and they also each have a year of my husbands GI Bill which is a bonus, but I doubt everything we do will be enough for 4 years at a top university, room and board, books etc. I'm okay with that. We love to travel too and the memories will be worth it.

 

[aliceindisneyland]

I wonder if those with this attitude have a clear picture of the huge cost of college these days- even a mid level State University. Yes, when DH and I were in College the cost was manageable with "bootstrapping" as you phrase it. The cost now is much less so.

My DH worked his way through in the 80's and graduated with less than $10,000 in debt. The cost was so much less at that time that he was able to work full time in the Summer and 25-30 hours a week during the school terms and cover the majority. His loans were mostly due to the unexpected expenses that life throws at you that someone working their way through college with no parental support does not have an emergency fund to cover. My education was fully funded through scholarships.

Fast forward to today. Our DD17 is an excellent student. (I know, I know just like every Dis kid.) But really she's top 10% in a 600 student class. She has solid ACT/SAT scores and an AP heavy transcript. She had no trouble gaining acceptance to her top choice schools. She ended up choosing a State University. She, so far, has $6000 in scholarships. This is a drop in the bucket against the total cost. A cost that a 17 year old would have a very difficult time earning.

My DD is a much stronger student with much stronger scores than I had but most Universities endowments have not kept up with the soaring cost.

I'm sure kids can pay for their own college. Let's say my son wants to go to Pepperdine. According to their calculator, it will cost him about $45,000 a year to live with relatives.

(The calculator says he would get about $12,000 in grants even though I plugged in that our income is over 100k. I'm not even going to count that.)

So he needs 45k a year (tuition/fees/books). Let's say he spent all of his high school job money on a car. He can get 2 jobs working as a waiter and/or bartender (bar after 21). I worked as a waitress for 15 years and I can count on one hand the days I made less than $30 an hour. Of course I'll tell him to report 100% of his tips , so let's say that after taxes he makes $22.50 an hour.

He needs to work 2000 hours a year at $22.50 to make 45k. He can work 2 serving jobs in the summer - 10am-4pm and 6pm-12am 6 days a week. No, he will not die from a little hard work; it's only 72 hours a week. Let's say summer is 12 weeks.

When he gets to school, he'll scale back his schedule to 28 hours a week.

If he wants to buy beer, go on dates, or fix his car, he'll simply need to be more efficient and charming, or get a wee student loan.

Oh, and he'll only need to do this for 2 years at the most for his first degree because he will be going to junior college/state U for high school.

No big deal. His university education = his problem to solve.

It's kind of beside the point, though; he doesn't plan on going to college at all as he thinks it will hold him back. He's probably not wrong.

If he does go, he might have to miss the family vacation for 2 summers....

 

[abmitch01]

part of the problem is my divorce decree says I'm on the hook for half of a state school. For 2 kids, that's 80k if they don't live at home. My son has already decided to do the first two years at a local community college.

I thought I was going to have no problem meeting the college costs because I got good child support. But then my son decided he didn't like my rules and went to live with his dad. My bad for not considering this could happen and relying child support. I'm currently asking my lawyer to redraft the agreement so it says we'll pay half of a state school tuition but they are on their own for room and board if they decide not to live at home. I think this is fair, we have good schools here and I don't feel I owe my kids a free college education.

so that's part of an explanation of why I feel guilty taking this trip.

 

[crisi]

part of the problem is my divorce decree says I'm on the hook for half of a state school. For 2 kids, that's 80k if they don't live at home. My son has already decided to do the first two years at a local community college.

I thought I was going to have no problem meeting the college costs because I got good child support. But then my son decided he didn't like my rules and went to live with his dad. My bad for not considering this could happen and relying child support. I'm currently asking my lawyer to redraft the agreement so it says we'll pay half of a state school tuition but they are on their own for room and board if they decide not to live at home. I think this is fair, we have good schools here and I don't feel I owe my kids a free college education.

so that's part of an explanation of why I feel guilty taking this trip.

I think setting kids expectations about what you can pay is reasonable - and certainly "state school, live at home" is VERY reasonable. You have nothing to feel guilty about.

The shame is the divorce decree. When the courts step in to say what each parent should pay for college, it takes away your ability as a parent to set those expectations - to say things like "I'll pay, but only for a practical degree, and I get to decide if what you propose is practical." Or "I'll pay, but you need to have maintained a B average in high school and a B average in college." Or "you are on your own for room and board and I'll have this amount for college." Or even, "sorry kid, I'm not planning on paying for college for you."

But on the other hand, my father in law didn't put forth a dime for my husband's education - not a single book or credit hour - because it wasn't in the divorce decree and child support ended on the boy's eighteen birthdays. He certainly could have afforded to help at least a little. (And he wonders now why his only surviving son has such a poor relationship with him - and I should be clear, not helping with college is just one of his minor failings as a father - treating my mother in law like garbage, not bothering to spend his weekends with the boys and leaving them with their mother, forgetting the ages of his own children....)

 

[hsmamato2]

No. there's a healthy balance between overspending and being foolish,and spending some income on fun stuff.

 

[gina2000]

I'm sure kids can pay for their own college. Let's say my son wants to go to Pepperdine. According to their calculator, it will cost him about $45,000 a year to live with relatives.

(The calculator says he would get about $12,000 in grants even though I plugged in that our income is over 100k. I'm not even going to count that.)

So he needs 45k a year (tuition/fees/books). Let's say he spent all of his high school job money on a car. He can get 2 jobs working as a waiter and/or bartender (bar after 21). I worked as a waitress for 15 years and I can count on one hand the days I made less than $30 an hour. Of course I'll tell him to report 100% of his tips , so let's say that after taxes he makes $22.50 an hour.

He needs to work 2000 hours a year at $22.50 to make 45k. He can work 2 serving jobs in the summer - 10am-4pm and 6pm-12am 6 days a week. No, he will not die from a little hard work; it's only 72 hours a week. Let's say summer is 12 weeks.

When he gets to school, he'll scale back his schedule to 28 hours a week.

If he wants to buy beer, go on dates, or fix his car, he'll simply need to be more efficient and charming, or get a wee student loan.

Oh, and he'll only need to do this for 2 years at the most for his first degree because he will be going to junior college/state U for high school.

No big deal. His university education = his problem to solve.

It's kind of beside the point, though; he doesn't plan on going to college at all as he thinks it will hold him back. He's probably not wrong.

If he does go, he might have to miss the family vacation for 2 summers....

Who is paying for food while he lives with relatives? Toiletries? Gas? Car repairs? Car insurance? Clothes? Medicine? Laundry detergent? Tolls? Medical insurance deductibles?

Working 72 hours a week sucks especially when a parent could afford to help but refuses. And working 28 hours a week while going to school is also hard. I have a student athlete who practices over 20 hours a week. It's hectic and exhausting.

I would never choose vacation entertainment over helping with college expenses. There is a balance ... vacation a little .... help a little. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition.


We are happy and proud to help our student. He works hard and we are happy to help support his endeavors. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it. That's a different story entirely.

My FIL used to say that he didn't have enough to go around, so he spent it on himself. Guess what? None of his kids want to put their hands in their pockets unless it's an extreme emergency. That door swings both ways.

 

[aliceindisneyland]

Who is paying for food while he lives with relatives? Toiletries? Gas? Car repairs? Car insurance? Clothes? Medicine? Laundry detergent? Tolls? Medical insurance deductibles?

Working 72 hours a week sucks especially when a parent could afford to help but refuses. And working 28 hours a week while going to school is also hard. I have a student athlete who practices over 20 hours a week. It's hectic and exhausting.

I would never choose vacation entertainment over helping with college expenses. There is a balance ... vacation a little .... help a little. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition.


We are happy and proud to help our student. He works hard and we are happy to help support his endeavors. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it. That's a different story entirely.

My FIL used to say that he didn't have enough to go around, so he spent it on himself. Guess what? None of his kids want to put their hands in their pockets unless it's an extreme emergency. That door swings both ways.

To pay for those other items, he could live frugally, work more, or *gasp* take a semester off to work...more.

But hopefully I will have raised a child who understands that it matters not a whit where he does his undergrad work so he will not choose an expensive school like Pepperdine unless scholarships make it a viable choice.

My point is that a grown man or woman can certainly pay for even the most expensive university without the financial assistance of other grownups.

When did the age for adulthood go up from 18 to 26? I do not have any problem with parents paying for college if that's what they want to do, but I have yet to read one argument here that makes a real case for doing so.

 

[Patience]

We told our oldest daughter that we could pay for her to attend a four year in state public university. That is what she chose and she is happy as a clam and will graduate in two years with no student loan debt. I do not feel guilty for not saving enough to pay for an expensive private school or out of state school. We also have no plans to pay for her graduate school (we plan to help but not pay for it entirely) because we have another child to finish raising and we will pay for her college too.

As another poster said, we are happy to pay for our daughter 's college education. She is doing great, works hard, is involved in a sport and makes us proud. Why would we saddle her with tons of debt when, with a little budgeting and careful choice of a college, we can afford to pay for it? I would never choose to prioritize my own vacations, etc. over college for my kids but that's just me I guess. If you truly are low income and can't afford to pay anything for college, that's one thing. But I assume you wouldn't be taking many Disney vacations if that's the case either. We've had wonderful vacations as a family and we treasure those memories but I honestly don't think that spending more on vacation equals better memories. Our vacation budget has always been secondary to other things. Some years we've had more expensive vacations than others but they've all been memorable.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

To pay for those other items, he could live frugally, work more, or *gasp* take a semester off to work...more. But hopefully I will have raised a child who understands that it matters not a whit where he does his undergrad work so he will not choose an expensive school like Pepperdine unless scholarships make it a viable choice. My point is that a grown man or woman can certainly pay for even the most expensive university without the financial assistance of other grownups. When did the age for adulthood go up from 18 to 26? I do not have any problem with parents paying for college if that's what they want to do, but I have yet to read one argument here that makes a real case for doing so.

I admittedly went to a pretty expensive school for my undergrad and it has without a doubt helped open doors for me.

I knew a lot of kids who were doing it on their own (whether their parents wouldn't or couldn't pay I didn't always know). Not a single one of them actually graduated from that school in the end.

Whether they couldn't keep up with working hours and course load or that the waitressing jobs and bar tending jobs got cut back and overrun so finding a new one took too long. A few even "took a semester off to work more" but then couldn't afford to save for school and rent (can't live in a dorm if you're not a student) and never went back.

Without any skills or degrees it's hard to get any job that's steady or decent.

Legally 18 is an adult but I personally don't think most 18 year olds have the life experiences (no matter how they were raised) to be completely on their own. But I guess some parents feel like they "foot the bill" for 18 years and that's it. I'm very thankful I wasn't raised by people who thought that way.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

Ok, I'll give this a shot.

Young people by definition are young and inexperienced and usually have not yet had the time or ability to make large sums of money.

The cost of college has outpaced inflation every year for years. There was a time that somebody could work a Summer job and wash dishes in the cafeteria for 10 hours a week to make enough money to go to school. That is not true today.

I have seen kids from poor backgrounds face this. They either end up dropping out or having unrealistically high student loans that will stop them from enjoying adult life at all.

Financial aid professionals speak of the 1/3-1/3-1/3 rule . Parents, student jobs, loans each paying 1/3.

As for loans, I say take what you need , but need what you take...and be realistic about where you want to go. Avoid debt if at all possible .

I do believe some kids can come up with the money themselves but it would require quite the entrepreneurial spirit at a very early age .

 

[abmitch01]

that sounds reasonable


I'm a nurse. I went to a very nice liberal arts college, small, just what I wanted. However, I had gotten an offer of a total free ride from a large state school. I wrote the private school asking them to consider matching as much of the state school as possible. They did, it was a great experience but my parents had to take out loans. I worked my fingers to the bone from the age of 12 mowing loans, babysitting, then "real" jobs. I was determined to go to college. I was the first of my generation to go to college right out of high school. My parents were so kind to take out loans and not saddle me with debt. But in hindsight they should've put their foot down and made me take the free ride to the state school. Where you graduate from doesn't matter much in nursing. I hope my kids make good choices.

 

[Dakota731]

I graduated high school with $25,000 in the bank all earned by babysitting and working at fast food places. But I hear so many of my friends saying "I don't want my child working while in school" but I say "why the heck not?" No one could have been busier than my son in school - he played 3 varsity sports, was class president and had a 4.0 average yet he worked from the time he was twelve. He started mowing lawns and shoveling snow, and when he was 16 then he worked construction during the summers and did tutoring and taught swim lessons during the school year. And he continued throughout college helping to pay his expenses.
Having worked at a high school I saw that the busiest kids were the most disciplined and made the best use of their time, not to mention kept out of trouble. When we coddle our kids, they lose out on life lessons such as budgeting, time management and a good work ethic.

 

[abmitch01]

my son is 16 and lives with his dad, that he doesn't have a job lined up for summer absolutely appalls me. And he gets As and Bs with barely doing work at home, he doesn't play a sport, he should be working after school. He's in a band and "doesn't have time". Part of the reason he's at his dad's is because he didn't like my rules. I'm working my butt off to pay for his education and he's in a band. He's a responsible, good kid but I think a job would make him more so. I learned a lot working a minimum wage job.

DD just turned 15 and got her working papers the same day, has applications in several places. And she's a much better student then DS, takes advanced classes, is in the state orchestra and practices violin for a minimum of 2hrs a night. She gets it.

 

[Marionnette]

My older son just graduated from college on Saturday (yea!!!). He did it in 4 years. No loans. We paid for it all. No summer job because he did unpaid internships and classes. He would occasionally help a friend out who has his own landscaping/snow plow business, but it was really just for pocket money.

Today, he is apartment hunting for his first real place. His new job is taking him 2 hours from our home, to one of the most expensive COLAs in the country - Fairfax County in northern VA. Unlike many of his peers, he can actually afford a decent place to live because he isn't saddled with student loan debts. We sat him down and showed him how much he can afford to spend on housing based on his base salary. He really understands the tremendous gift that we have given him by providing him with an education at a quality institution (99% of those graduating from his area of study already had jobs waiting for them, the other 4 kids need to finish an internship before they can get a "real" job). And because he is free from student loans, he could afford to take a job which has excellent benefits and significant opportunity to move up within the company, even though living expenses in that area force many recent grads to look elsewhere.

Perhaps it's not the path that most would (or could) choose for providing for their child. However, I cannot be more proud of our son and the way things have worked out for him! I'm driving a 12-year-old car because we chose to pay for college. My family room needs new rugs because we pay tuition bills instead of paying for carpet. There's a lot that we sacrificed (and still do without) so that we can give this gift to our kids.

 

[kymom99]

We are sacrificing now to send our son to private high school. Once he gets to college, he will have to help out. My husband works at a state university that is 5 minutes from our house. He can get half of his tuition paid for if he goes there because he qualifies for tuition waivers thanks to my husband. He also is accumulating KEES money for his grades in high school. There will not be that much left to pay for should he choose to go to that school. If he decided to go somewhere else he will be on his own. If he wanted to be a doctor or something, that whole be a whole different story, but so far he hasn't indicated that as his plan.

Years ago, my step daughter turned 16. Her mom did not require that she have a job, but she let her get her driver's license. Shortly after that she had a falling out with her mom and she came to live with us. She used my car to go out on weekends and picked everyone and their uncle up, without any way to pay for gas. That lasted a short time until, after much prodding from her father, she finally went out and got a job. She worked as much as she could while participating in marching band. She earned a scholarship to a state university 1 1/2 hours away and paid much of her expenses herself. We told her how much we could give her and she was on her own for the rest. She has become a very thrifty, responsible lady. She is in her 30s now, married with 3 kids. I think she understood quickly that we were looking out for her best interests.