Do you eat organic?

I don't want to diminish your feelings in anyway, but this is an example of confirmation bias. You eat organic and your autoimmune disease has been in remission. Those two facts are not necessarily linked. Also, personal experience has been shown many times to differ from what scientific study bares out. Again, you clearly feel strongly about this and I don't want you to feel you're being attacked, as that is not my intention.

As to the growing trend of girls reaching puberty at a younger age, we don't know why this is happening. Theories include the use of insecticides, the increase in childhood obesity, and the use of soy to name a few.

Yes, its one of many. AND HGH is in people also, but you don't have exaggerated amounts like they put in meats, wouldn't it make sense that can cause this in your children?? At least err on the side of caution even if you have doubts. Like I said, I study this, I take classes and these are college courses in nutrition. I don't do everything organic, who can. This is a list of foods to eat organically. Thicker skinned fruits such as bananas, etc., you can eat regular, etc. It is really the larger big organic corporations in the supermarkets, you might want to just purchase locally grown products. I also like to use meats that are treated humanely also. http://www.thedailygreen.com/healthy-eating/eat-safe/Dirty-Dozen-Foods
 
I don't want to diminish your feelings in anyway, but this is an example of confirmation bias. You eat organic and your autoimmune disease has been in remission. Those two facts are not necessarily linked. Also, personal experience has been shown many times to differ from what scientific study bares out. Again, you clearly feel strongly about this and I don't want you to feel you're being attacked, as that is not my intention.

As to the growing trend of girls reaching puberty at a younger age, we don't know why this is happening. Theories include the use of insecticides, the increase in childhood obesity, and the use of soy to name a few.

But there is no point in organic?
 
I guess I need to do more research, because honestly I just assumed that organic, pretty much meant they didn't do anything to it. It's obviously not something I put a lot of thought or research into, just figured there was no risk in eating something not full of pesticides.
When I grow veggies in my garden (which I don't have the space to do now) I just plant 'em in the ground and water them! I never needed to spray them for anything, and my parents fruit trees were always the same. We had apricots, peaches, cherries, and apples in our yard, and they never sprayed with anything organic or otherwise. Just left them alone and then ate them when they were ripe!
We are looking in to joining a CSA (as I said not because it's organic, but because I'd rather pay a bit more and support a small farm) and at least one perk to that is you can question the farmer about their growing methods. I wonder if it's even possible to find food grown with little or no intervention with out just growing it in your backyard?
I just want to feed my family food. Just food. Things like carrots, chicken, spinach, and cheese. I wish there were a way to do that with out getting all the "extras" like pesticides, hormones, and preservatives, but I guess it's just not that easy.
I read recently that the Amish have a 72% lower risk of developing cancer, and much lower rates of heart disease and diabetes, despite the fact that they have diets high in carbs and fats. I know a big part of that is the fact that they get lot's of exercise while working hard, but the article also mentioned that they use organic farming methods. I wonder if their methods are any more "organic" than others?

FINALLY YOU GET IT!!!!:yay:

How many times do we have to say that "organic" does not mean pesticide/disease control free.

In fact you make be shocked that big corporations may use the same controls. There are tons of sprays and methods that are organic. They are made from plants.

When you grow things in big quantity you have to use what is called "Integrated Pest/Disease Managment" with your crops. If you didn't they would be all dead.

Now there are many methods including using insects, biological organisms, light, covers, and chemical sprays made from plants (which is considered organic).

I have no idea who Pollen is but I can tell you I have a horticultural degree.;)
 
FINALLY YOU GET IT!!!!:yay:

How many times do we have to say that "organic" does not mean pesticide/disease control free.

In fact you make be shocked that big corporations may use the same controls. There are tons of sprays and methods that are organic. They are made from plants.

When you grow things in big quantity you have to use what is called "Integrated Pest/Disease Managment" with your crops. If you didn't they would be all dead.

Now there are many methods including using insects, biological organisms, light, covers, and chemical sprays made from plants (which is considered organic).

I have no idea who Pollen is but I can tell you I have a horticultural degree.;)

I'm guessing than, that maybe sticking to small local farms when possible is perhaps the best way to get fruits and vegetables in their most natural state? I just want to feed my kids apples that are for the most part just covered in apple skin. I know that nothing is ever going to be completely free of "stuff". I'm sure that some of it gets in just from soil, water, air, ect., but if I can avoid it, I'd just rather have nothing sprayed on. As I said before, I'm pretty confident that just a plain ol' apple won't ever be found to be loaded with hazardous chemicals or harmful to my kids, and I know it's possible to grow apples with out stuff, because I grew up eating "stuff" free apples from my backyard tree. They weren't as pretty as in the stores, but they were dang tasty!
It just makes sense to me to avoid those things when possible, and with in reason.
And I'm not sure I get the whole "Finally you get it" thing. To the best of my knowledge I wasn't going round after round arguing any different. I was just stating that based on old fashioned logic, I'd rather eat food that's just food. I wasn't aware that organic foods still had pesticides and other "stuff" sprayed on them. I'd still rather eat food that's just food.
 

I'm guessing than, that maybe sticking to small local farms when possible is perhaps the best way to get fruits and vegetables in their most natural state? I just want to feed my kids apples that are for the most part just covered in apple skin. I know that nothing is ever going to be completely free of "stuff". I'm sure that some of it gets in just from soil, water, air, ect., but if I can avoid it, I'd just rather have nothing sprayed on. As I said before, I'm pretty confident that just a plain ol' apple won't ever be found to be loaded with hazardous chemicals or harmful to my kids, and I know it's possible to grow apples with out stuff, because I grew up eating "stuff" free apples from my backyard tree. They weren't as pretty as in the stores, but they were dang tasty!
It just makes sense to me to avoid those things when possible, and with in reason.
And I'm not sure I get the whole "Finally you get it" thing. To the best of my knowledge I wasn't going round after round arguing any different. I was just stating that based on old fashioned logic, I'd rather eat food that's just food. I wasn't aware that organic foods still had pesticides and other "stuff" sprayed on them. I'd still rather eat food that's just food.

I said that because I posted it many times and people don't get it. It was a relief to me because now you understand what we are saying. More of joy on my part.:thumbsup2

Apples, now I am not in the business of managing apples however I know they are beyond fragile in an orchard. I would most certainly ASK the grower how they manage the diseases and insects with them because it is hellish.

While I know that you grew up eating apples unsprayed, the problem in an orchard is that they are battling with diseases and insects constantly.

And yes going local is the wonderful. Certainly the freshness of produce trumps everything.
 
There are many many many many many studies to show that it is better to use organic methods. AND you should try to use Certified organic products. What is your point use something we know is bad for us? I study this, I take classes in natural health and I had a serious autoimmune disease where my body was attacking itself. Do you know what is in your white bread, something called Alloxan that causes cancer, when they bleach out all the good stuff, yet the FDA approves this. You still haven't answered the hormones in milk which you seem to feel is ok. Wonder why your girls are growing breasts at 10 years old now? I changed my lifestyle including using organic products, trying for certified organic, and altogether healthier whole foods and my autoimmune disease has been in remission. Too lengthy to mention here. Yes, there should be more watching of the organic industry also. Yes somethings they put out there as natural or organic are not Certified Organic. http://www.naturalnews.com/alloxan.html

And there are numerous studies that also show it doesn't really make a difference. Honestly I really don't care if folks eat Organic, buy locally, etc. as it is there choice. But I think there are alot of misconceptions out there regarding Organic foods and what that term generally means.

As far as the milk argument - sorry but there is no conclusive evidence that precocious is on the rise and even more so due to hormones. When precocious puberty does happen many doctors think it is linked to Child Obesity - which is on the rise.
 
As to the growing trend of girls reaching puberty at a younger age, we don't know why this is happening. Theories include the use of insecticides, the increase in childhood obesity, and the use of soy to name a few.

But there is no point in organic?

Organic foods also used insecticides. In fact, many organic insecticides are meant to only target a certain species or a few different species. Therefore, those who have a variety of insect species they wish to treat will likely need more than one type of organic insecticide. And just because a pesticide is made organically does not mean it is entirely without any safety hazards. Many of the long term effects of organic pesticides and insecticides have not been studied with just as many proving harmful as their chemical counterparts.

I am sorry, but I refuse to see this as a black and white issue. As I said before, I take no issue with what someone chooses to eat. :hippie: If you disagree with me that's perfectly okay. But your line isn't really very good evidence for choosing organic foods over non organic.
 
Organic foods also used insecticides. In fact, many organic insecticides are meant to only target a certain species or a few different species. Therefore, those who have a variety of insect species they wish to treat will likely need more than one type of organic insecticide. And just because a pesticide is made organically does not mean it is entirely without any safety hazards. Many of the long term effects of organic pesticides and insecticides have not been studied with just as many proving harmful as their chemical counterparts.

Yep.

I really hope people here understand that "organic" does not mean no pesticide/disease controls.

Part of the "organic" craze is a bit of a marketing scheme. People without knowledge assume it means "pesticide free".

Is an organic poison better that an inorganic poison? That remains to be seen.

Honestly, probably neither are good.;)
 
Regarding regular milk vs organic milk. I went through a phase where I bought organic milk. I spoke to a friend of mine (doctor) about it and she said there are hormones in organic milk. Huh. That stopped me in my tracks. She laughed about it and we had a good conversation. I stopped buying organic milk that day.

I hadn't thought about that conversation for quite awhile. My decision was made and I haven't looked back. I'm not saying, "I'm right" and anyone that buys organic milk is, "wrong". Everyone has to weigh information for themselves. Some of what is in the blog below highlights what my friend told me. Interesting reading:

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/09/got-milk-got-hormones-got-a-problem-with-that/

Milk is back in the news, thanks to Wal-Mart. The giant retailer recently announced that milk sold under its store brand will now come exclusively from cows free of artificial growth hormones, which some farmers use to boost milk production. Wal-Mart says its new policy was driven by customer demand. (Kroger, Safeway, Publix and Starbucks have already made the same switch.) So what’s driving demand? Possibly, articles like this one, which made the rounds here at CNN. The person who spotted the piece described it as a great story “on how hormones in milk are causing girls to reach puberty years ahead of time.”

When I checked it out, however, I found just one problem: so far, that conclusion isn’t supported by decades of scientific studies. Researchers have not been able to definitively link hormones in milk and harm to humans, including early puberty in young girls. The writer of the article actually points that out. But she also writes: “there’s tons of speculation. Common sense should tell you that excess exposure to artificial hormones cannot be good for you.” She then advises readers to avoid milk with added hormones, even if it costs more. When I called her, she elaborated: “I just know a lot of times when you’re using something like a medication or an additive, years down the road you find that it’s associated with something terrible.” She also told me she has a pre-teen daughter and would rather be safe than sorry.

Time for a quick confession: I’m a slavish consumer of pricey organic milk, even though my husband (a science/medical journalist and non-practicing medical doctor) rolls his eyes every time I bring a half gallon home. Full disclosure: He wrote about the milk safety debate last year in The Scientist, so I’m probably more familiar than the average reader with arguments that milk with hormones is just fine. But even so, when it comes to shopping for milk, my emotions, not cool rationality, drive my choices – and I’ll bet I’m not unusual. I’m drawn to the “err on the side of safety” argument; no one but my wallet gets hurt. But I also have enough experience in health/medical reporting to understand that “tons of speculation” and “common sense” don’t hold water in scientific circles - or in journalism, for that matter. Facts and evidence are required.

Sometimes they surprise: It turns out that buying organic doesn’t mean you’re getting hormone-free milk. To qualify as organic, milk producers must certify that their cows haven’t been treated with synthetic growth hormones. Key word: synthetic. According to Gary Rogers, a professor of animal science at the University of Tennessee, all milk – even organic – contains low levels of hormones that occur naturally in cows – including the natural version of the growth hormone that boosts milk production. It’s produced in cows’ pituitary glands. According to Rogers, who works with dairy farmers, organic milk and conventionally produced milk look identical when analyzed in the lab. “Milk from cows given hormones cannot be distinguished from milk from untreated cows,” he told me, because the hormone levels are about the same. The FDA agrees. Some skeptics argue that the tools used to measure milk-boosting hormone levels aren’t sensitive enough; Rogers describes the technology as sophisticated.

It also turns out that milk-boosting hormones given to cows are mostly destroyed when their milk is pasteurized. According to Craig Baumrucker, professor of animal nutrition/physiology at Penn State University, pasteurization breaks down 90 percent of the growth hormone. He also points out that our stomach acids and intestinal secretions also break down these types of hormones.


Milk also contains traces of the reproductive hormones estradiol, testosterone, and something called IGF-1. There’s some evidence that IGF-1 may raise the risk of certain kinds of prostate cancer. But Rogers and others point out that the amounts of these hormones in milk are a small fraction of what our bodies produce every day. (Pre-pubertal girls and boys and pregnant women produce the most.) One estimate says a person would have to drink 95 quarts of milk to equal the amount of IGF-1 we make daily in our saliva and digestive tract secretions. What’s more, said Baumrucker (who received funding unrelated to milk hormones from Monsanto in the 1980s) says birth control pills contain far greater levels of estrogen than milk. He believes hormones in milk have been a target of the biotechnology backlash. He also points out that organic labels bring higher profits to producers with “claims of better health” for the public. Translation: Organic companies may have an interest in playing on our fears.

Frankly, the backlash against artificial hormones in milk doesn’t surprise me. Every day it seems, we hear reports that make us question the safety of the food we eat and water we drink. The federal agencies tasked with keeping us safe have failed enough times to shake public confidence. As a journalist, it’s my job to be skeptical – of everyone – until the facts become as clear as possible. If something sounds scary, maybe there’s a good reason. It’s also possible someone has good reason to keep you scared. And maybe the truth lies somewhere in between.

In Rogers’ view, labels that say “no hormones added” send a misleading message. “These labels imply that other milk has hormones and theirs doesn’t,” Rogers says. In an email, Baumrucker put it more bluntly: “This is clearly a false advertising statement,” he wrote. “There are hormones in natural milk.” Both professors, and many others in science, believe that milk is safe, period. “It’s not appropriate to say one milk is healthier than another,” Rogers says. “That’s going beyond what the data can support.”

Meantime, there’s a half gallon of milk sitting in my refrigerator stamped with the reassuring words: "Produced without the use of antibiotics, synthetic growth hormones or toxic or persistent pesticides and fertilizers." And, yes, my husband’s eyes are rolling. What about yours?

- Cate Vojdik, 360° Writer
 
And there are numerous studies that also show it doesn't really make a difference. Honestly I really don't care if folks eat Organic, buy locally, etc. as it is there choice. But I think there are alot of misconceptions out there regarding Organic foods and what that term generally means.

As far as the milk argument - sorry but there is no conclusive evidence that precocious is on the rise and even more so due to hormones. When precocious puberty does happen many doctors think it is linked to Child Obesity - which is on the rise.

It is not rocket science to believe that HGH at least MAY contribute. What does HGH do, what is it used for now a days? Do you want excess amounts of it ingested by you or your children? Here is something that came across my home page dated today re pesticides.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37156010/?ns=health-kids_and_parenting
 
I said that because I posted it many times and people don't get it. It was a relief to me because now you understand what we are saying. More of joy on my part.:thumbsup2

Apples, now I am not in the business of managing apples however I know they are beyond fragile in an orchard. I would most certainly ASK the grower how they manage the diseases and insects with them because it is hellish.

While I know that you grew up eating apples unsprayed, the problem in an orchard is that they are battling with diseases and insects constantly.

And yes going local is the wonderful. Certainly the freshness of produce trumps everything.

I don't think you are getting it. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37156010/?ns=health-kids_and_parenting
 
Regarding regular milk vs organic milk. I went through a phase where I bought organic milk. I spoke to a friend of mine (doctor) about it and she said there are hormones in organic milk. Huh. That stopped me in my tracks. She laughed about it and we had a good conversation. I stopped buying organic milk that day.

Milk is one where my cost/benefit analysis of organics came down in favor of non-organics. I just don't see the hormone issue as all that significant, particularly since the dairy that produces the store brand milk I buy doesn't use rBGH. I would prefer to buy organic simply because the cows are pastured for at least some of the time, but at a price difference of about $3/gallon and with my kids going through 3-4 gallons/week, it just isn't enough of a priority to justify the cost. On the rare occasion I buy chocolate milk, however, I do choose organic because that's the only way to get chocolate milk without high fructose corn syrup.
 
My main concern isn't buying organic but I only purchase dairy and meat that is antibiotic and hormone free. If I want my family consuming that I'll get them prescriptions from their doctors.
 
Maybe I've done too much reading about the original EPCOT idea, or maybe it's that I've floated along the rivers of the Land too often, but I just think there has to be a better way to feed America, and do so, locally.

Instead of figuring out a way to chemically inject a vegetable so that it ripens "along the way" to its destination several countries away, why can't we find other alternatives? With all the research that we see, why is it that we don't have expansive greenhouses where we can grow "out of season" crops, but still have them delivered fairly locally?

Regional houses where an Orange is grown in a climate controlled facility in New York, and is then delivered to Pennsylvania, seems a lot better than using some chemical and more fossil fuels to get the same Orange from 1000's of miles away.

I guess it's the Pisces in me, but I do dream a lot.
 
Maybe I've done too much reading about the original EPCOT idea, or maybe it's that I've floated along the rivers of the Land too often, but I just think there has to be a better way to feed America, and do so, locally.

Instead of figuring out a way to chemically inject a vegetable so that it ripens "along the way" to its destination several countries away, why can't we find other alternatives? With all the research that we see, why is it that we don't have expansive greenhouses where we can grow "out of season" crops, but still have them delivered fairly locally?

Regional houses where an Orange is grown in a climate controlled facility in New York, and is then delivered to Pennsylvania, seems a lot better than using some chemical and more fossil fuels to get the same Orange from 1000's of miles away.

I guess it's the Pisces in me, but I do dream a lot.

Pollination is the problem with greenhouse growing of many things. I don't know if it is impossible or just extremely difficult to manage insect pollination indoors, but I do know that things like oranges aren't grown indoors in any significant quantity because of that requirement.

The other factor is that right now and throughout our history up to this point, oil has been cheap and abundant, which has made shipping much more cost effective than building and heating greenhouses to grow locally in northern climates. As that changes we may see a shift to ways to grow regionally even out of season, particularly for plants that do well in greenhouses like greens, brassicas, and root crops that don't depend on pollination at all, as well as things like tomatoes that are much easier to artificially pollinate.
 
I will grow and buy local and organic food until the day I die. Which will be a lot further off than all of you organic haters. ;) Only kidding popcorn:::goodvibes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iznIMOIIumE

This is a funny representation of organics, but it gets the point across.
 


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