Do you consider a family that makes >$100,000 wealthy?

[arminnie]

There's a HUGE difference in the cost of living between different parts of the country. Just two examples of
No. California vs. Arkansas:

Housing:
CA: Small 2 BR condo 25 miles from San Francisco, 1 car garage - $710,000 - taxes about $8000/yr
AR: Beautiful fully updated 3/2 home with garage on a lake with 1/3 acre and tens of thousands of dollars of landscaping - slightly over $200,000 (in the city with the highest per capital income in the state, lots of cheaper areas). Taxes - $1900/yr.

Vet:
$400 for procedure that cost $125 in Arkansas with additional services.

 

[Christine]

I think it depends when you were hired and what department you work for. My brother is civilian DOD, his insurance has always been free for him and all dependents. At 65 it converted to insurance that pays almost everything Medicare doesn't. He was in the hosptial and rehab for 3 months, his out of pocket was $25.

Interesting. I've have family members who have been in DoD or other civilian federal agencies since probably the 1970s (they are older and retired) as well as we have a few coworkers who are life timers and are over 70. They have never had free health insurance. I wonder if he was under a special, unionized part of the federal goverment.

All DoD retirees that I know are able to carry their health insurance into retirement but at a cost of about $400 per month for a family/couple for BC/BS--other plans are cheaper but none are free. That kicks in when Medicare doesn't pay.

 

[Judique]

Interesting. I've have family members who have been in DoD or other civilian federal agencies since probably the 1970s (they are older and retired) as well as we have a few coworkers who are life timers and are over 70. They have never had free health insurance. I wonder if he was under a special, unionized part of the federal goverment.

All DoD retirees that I know are able to carry their health insurance into retirement but at a cost of about $400 per month for a family/couple for BC/BS--other plans are cheaper but none are free. That kicks in when Medicare doesn't pay.

Living in DC/Md/Va area as well. Back in the 90's/early 2000's there were a lot of changes in the federal benefits packages. (Used to be married to a fed worker). So it's hard to remember everything we had.

I'm also a public sector worker, not federal, and I had free health insurance at one time with no copays. Now I'm up to $143 every 2 weeks for medical, dental, vision and prescriptions. Copays are $10/20 for dr's and specialists, $25 for ER visits and free if you get admitted - no deductible to meet. Dental now has a cap but no deductible with new coverage of some items and less coverage of others.

I pay into the state pension plan which is pretty expensive to me but others might think it's a bargain. I pay into a few 'things' to save for retirement as I certainly don't want to lower my standard of living at retirement which is coming when I desire as I've already reached retirement age.

Our gross family household income is almost $160K. My part is over $100K.

Yet I have to sit down and carefully plan every major expense. I budget our food. I've dropped the high cost phone and gone with $35 Virgin Mobile. Our cable bill is $70ties - basic and decent speed for internet.

We try to do our own yard, maintenance and cleaning.

We have 3 TV's - all thin but not huge, that are rarely on.

We have 4 vehicles - modest, paid off but not elderly except for the 2004 truck which is a savings for lots of things.

Own our home, very small mortgage, in today's McMansion society, we look poor, lol. The homes built recently 2 streets over are triple the size of mine. And my property taxes keep increasing......rentals vary widely - $1700 for 3 bd/2 bath to $3k within a half mile for 4bd/3bath single. I don't know what apartments cost - none for several miles. My type home brings close to 2K as a rental. If I didn't own I wouldn't afford my own little house. I'd have to be a commuter!

I don't feel affluent, but I can hop on down to Florida whenever I feel like it - I have 6 weeks annual a year now and a big stash of carry over sick leave still accruing - they'll do a pay out when I retire. (I own DVC -paid for in early 2000's - and may get AP's so cheap trips over all. We also do the requisite beach trip to Ocean City every year and a Hilton Head trip for beach every other year. We go other places as well.

People around here consider me average to low. The percentiles say we are way up there.

So, am I middle class? or just comfortable?

I feel as if I need to sell out and move at retirement to a tax free state.

 

[tvguy]

Interesting. I've have family members who have been in DoD or other civilian federal agencies since probably the 1970s (they are older and retired) as well as we have a few coworkers who are life timers and are over 70. They have never had free health insurance. I wonder if he was under a special, unionized part of the federal goverment.

All DoD retirees that I know are able to carry their health insurance into retirement but at a cost of about $400 per month for a family/couple for BC/BS--other plans are cheaper but none are free. That kicks in when Medicare doesn't pay.

He started his last job, as a civilian DOD employee on an Air Force base in 1964, retired in 1990. But he transferred from a civilian DOD job at a private contractor so got 2 years credit there, and he got credit for his 4 years in the Navy too. Never understood how Federal jobs work.
When he went to retire, he had to used up his 13 months of sick time first before he could retire.

 

[Christine]

He started his last job, as a civilian DOD employee on an Air Force base in 1964, retired in 1990. But he transferred from a civilian DOD job at a private contractor so got 2 years credit there, and he got credit for his 4 years in the Navy too. Never understood how Federal jobs work.
When he went to retire, he had to used up his 13 months of sick time first before he could retire.

So maybe in 1964 they were offering free healthcare and there is some weird loophole for that. Most changes in healthcare are not "grandfathered" for federal workers. The only thing that ever sticks with you is your pension setting based on when you enter the service. We have a few people that have been in since the 60s (we have a 91 year old still working with us!!). They don't get free healthcare. I wonder about this.

As for creditable service, if you were prior military, you can "buy" your years into federal service. You pay the pension difference and they credit you for your military time. That time also goes toward leave accrual. Additionally, for some positions, if you worked in the private sector and it relates to your job that you are applying for you can get that time credit toward your leave approval (but not retirement). It's an incentive bonus for certain positions.

For sick leave, you can now put it toward your retirement or you can get paid out for it.

 

[tvguy]

So maybe in 1964 they were offering free healthcare and there is some weird loophole for that. Most changes in healthcare are not "grandfathered" for federal workers. The only thing that ever sticks with you is your pension setting based on when you enter the service. We have a few people that have been in since the 60s (we have a 91 year old still working with us!!). They don't get free healthcare. I wonder about this.

As for creditable service, if you were prior military, you can "buy" your years into federal service. You pay the pension difference and they credit you for your military time. That time also goes toward leave accrual. Additionally, for some positions, if you worked in the private sector and it relates to your job that you are applying for you can get that time credit toward your leave approval (but not retirement). It's an incentive bonus for certain positions.

For sick leave, you can now put it toward your retirement or you can get paid out for it.

I gave up trying to figure out what he did for the government. His standard answer always was, "nothing, I work for the government".

 

[crzy4dsny]

Simple answer, depends on where you live! I live on Long Island, the second most expensive place in the country to raise a family. I have a 1700 square foot house on a lot that is 125'x125'. My property taxes are $9,700 a year. My home owners insurance is $2,400 a year. That's over $1,000 a month for..... What? My neighborhood is just average, nothing special.

 

[MsMamaBear]

Depends on where they live, family size and their current debt then they'd be comfortable.

 

[waltdisneymom]

Simple answer, depends on where you live! I live on Long Island, the second most expensive place in the country to raise a family. I have a 1700 square foot house on a lot that is 125'x125'. My property taxes are $9,700 a year. My home owners insurance is $2,400 a year. That's over $1,000 a month for..... What? My neighborhood is just average, nothing special.

The reason why property taxes are skyrocketing is because there has been an unusually large influx of people over the last decade that have come to the U.S. with nothing. You are paying for schools and infrastructure to support those people.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

The reason why property taxes are skyrocketing is because there has been an unusually large influx of people over the last decade that have come to the U.S. with nothing. You are paying for schools and infrastructure to support those people.

Are those people with "nothing" really settling into affluent neighborhoods? I would think not.

 

[deedeetoo]

The reason why property taxes are skyrocketing is because there has been an unusually large influx of people over the last decade that have come to the U.S. with nothing. You are paying for schools and infrastructure to support those people.

Seriously? My property taxes are high but it has nothing to do with immigration. It primarily has to do with the town building a fancy new high school and fancy new elementary school, and a new police station, and ...well, you get the idea. The schools and police station were needed because the old buildings had major issues. School population is not growing here.

 

[DopeyDame]

Despite my previous rants, I thought this was an interesting and relevant article. Apparently in DC, $106,000 for a family of 4 makes you average.

http://wtop.com/local/2015/08/d-c-expensive-place-family-4-u-s/

 

[waltdisneymom]

Seriously? My property taxes are high but it has nothing to do with immigration. It primarily has to do with the town building a fancy new high school and fancy new elementary school, and a new police station, and ...well, you get the idea. The schools and police station were needed because the old buildings had major issues. School population is not growing here.

It may not be growing where you are but I am sure it is growing somewhere near you and your taxes are definitely being impacted. All you have to do is look at the numbers. This is not a judgement just a fact.

 

[waltdisneymom]

Are those people with "nothing" really settling into affluent neighborhoods? I would think not.

No but it still impacts your property taxes nonetheless. Look at where your property tax money goes. In many states school money goes to the state and then is redistributed "more equally" to counties. This is not a judgement just a fact. Look at immigration numbers.

 

[Gracie09]

No but it still impacts your property taxes nonetheless. Look at where your property tax money goes. In many states school money goes to the state and then is redistributed "more equally" to counties. This is not a judgement just a fact. Look at immigration numbers.

you should probably look at state and federal budget numbers and see the percent that is paid to education and then compare it to the percent of taxes paid to other types of "services". Also look at corporate welfare numbers. If you are really interested in decreasing tax burden on the tax payer, you have to look at the whole picture. Besides, immigrants pay taxes too.

 

[waltdisneymom]

?

 

[DopeyDame]

I am not just talking about schools but all infrastructure and services. Immigrants pay taxes but are a net drain on taxes. They rely very very heavily on services paid for by taxes. This is not a judgement but just a fact.

Can you cite a source or two for that? I'm actually not disagreeing - I genuinely have no idea what the immigrant net impact on taxes might be. I'd love to see some actual factual analysis from legit sources.

I will point out, though, that of course the way the tax and services structure is set up in the US means that it isn't ever a simple contributions versus use calculation. No one has any idea of what "use" they will need down the road.

 

[waltdisneymom]

Can you cite a source or two for that? I'm actually not disagreeing - I genuinely have no idea what the immigrant net impact on taxes might be. I'd love to see some actual factual analysis from legit sources.

I will point out, though, that of course the way the tax and services structure is set up in the US means that it isn't ever a simple contributions versus use calculation. No one has any idea of what "use" they will need down the road.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
I just pulled this off the Internet and it is from 2004-- which is a long time ago. Obviously this is a controversial subject and i kind of wish id never brought it up. But since this study was published in 2004, the numbers are much larger now. We have had a huge immigrant influx since then. Also changed is that immigrants (illegal and legal) have gained access to the welfare state, I.e. they use services as citizens do. I say this because I have a friend who immigrated to the US in the 90s and had to be sponsored by a tax paying citizen and was not allowed to access welfare programs for two years. Those restrictions have all gone away. Again I am not anti immigrant- I was just responding to someone saying their property taxes were really high. Ours have doubled in the last five years. For us they are really unsustainable at this rate. We do not have large amounts of immigrants in our local school district but some neighboring school districts are almost completely non english speaking. Again, not at all against foriegners or non english speakers but just pointing out the financial reality.

 

[Gracie09]

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
I just pulled this off the Internet and it is from 2004-- which is a long time ago. Obviously this is a controversial subject and i kind of wish id never brought it up. But since this study was published in 2004, the numbers are much larger now. We have had a huge immigrant influx since then. Also changed is that immigrants (illegal and legal) have gained access to the welfare state, I.e. they use services as citizens do. I say this because I have a friend who immigrated to the US in the 90s and had to be sponsored by a tax paying citizen and was not allowed to access welfare programs for two years. Those restrictions have all gone away. Again I am not anti immigrant- I was just responding to someone saying their property taxes were really high. Ours have doubled in the last five years. For us they are really unsustainable at this rate. We do not have large amounts of immigrants in our local school district but some neighboring school districts are almost completely non english speaking. Again, not at all against foriegners or non english speakers but just pointing out the financial reality.

my property taxes have close to doubled in the last five years. Thanks to the football program who just couldn't continue to use the old field, the lacrosse program who NEEDED a field of their own, the town that also needed new football fields and soccer fields. The three new firetrucks. The new "better" middle school model that now doubles the number of administration because they house the kids. The additional special education services required to be provided (and rightly). The new testing requirements that now meant new computers and wifi and personnel to handle this. The new renovations at the community pool. Oh and all the fields NEED to be turf, because the kids can't be expected to play in muddy fields. and lights. I forgot the lights. And the new downtown revitalization - because spening 10s of thousands on hanging plants really will drive business to down town.

 

[deedeetoo]

No but it still impacts your property taxes nonetheless. Look at where your property tax money goes. In many states school money goes to the state and then is redistributed "more equally" to counties. This is not a judgement just a fact. Look at immigration numbers.

I've never heard of anything like this. What the town collects, it keeps. Our town meeting sets the budget for the town including spending on schools. This is used to calculate the necessary tax rate.