Do you believe misogyny exists and people should be protected from misogyny?

[EilonwyWanderer]

Now, in the workplace I prefer to work with men. Minus a handful of men from India, I have always felt valued and heard by my male counterparts. There are many women out there that can't help but undermine their female co-workers.

This is actually part of misogyny! Because for a LONG time, even as recent as the 80s and 90s, there was only one spot at the table for a woman and it was harder to get the higher you climbed so women were taught that other women in the workplace were a threat to you.

This is stupid. It's extremely stupid. And the younger generations seem to be a LOT better about lifting each other up than seeing each other as threats nowadays.

 

[Pink Partridge]

And the younger generations seem to be a LOT better about lifting each other up than seeing each other as threats nowadays.

The younger generation is not any better. Yes, on TikTok and social media, they talk a good talk.

But as these young women climb the ladder, many are not lifting each other up. They are the same as their older counterparts.

The more I watch other women, I really do appreciate my male co-workers.

 

[gsdweller]

This is actually part of misogyny! Because for a LONG time, even as recent as the 80s and 90s, there was only one spot at the table for a woman and it was harder to get the higher you climbed so women were taught that other women in the workplace were a threat to you.

This is stupid. It's extremely stupid. And the younger generations seem to be a LOT better about lifting each other up than seeing each other as threats nowadays.

So now you are saying that women treat other women poorly because men force them to?

If you treat the workplace as a competition, then other men are also a threat to men. IE other people are a threat to people.

Of course, if you treat the workplace as a competition, your work life will always be miserable.

 

[EilonwyWanderer]

That's not at all what I said. But the work force has, for a long, long, LONG time been a big boys club. But there were always plenty of spaces at the table for men, especially white men. In fact, all the seats at the table were. So when you have one seat that MAYBE they might give up to someone else, it turns everyone of that group into competition.

Like I said, in my experience women these days are moving away from that. There are tons of women's networking groups where I work and I find myself trying to unlearn all the things I used to be told--that I had to be 'one of the boys' or that other women are 'toxic' or 'there can be only one office sweetheart.' It's all so gross.

Maybe you should start a notallmen thread because that appears to be where you're going.

 

[DCLMP]

That's not at all what I said. But the work force has, for a long, long, LONG time been a big boys club. But there were always plenty of spaces at the table for men, especially white men. In fact, all the seats at the table were. So when you have one seat that MAYBE they might give up to someone else, it turns everyone of that group into competition.

Like I said, in my experience women these days are moving away from that. There are tons of women's networking groups where I work and I find myself trying to unlearn all the things I used to be told--that I had to be 'one of the boys' or that other women are 'toxic' or 'there can be only one office sweetheart.' It's all so gross.

Maybe you should start a notallmen thread because that appears to be where you're going.

Ahhh yes....the white man hate. You sound a bit racist...

 

[EilonwyWanderer]

You can't be racist against white people. You can be bigoted, but racism is all about power dynamics and white people (in the us at least) are at the top. Racism is all about punching down, you can't punch up because the groups that aren't at the top don't have any power or influence to really do anything to the top group.

 

[VandVsmama]

 

[sam_gordon]

You can't be racist against white people. You can be bigoted, but racism is all about power dynamics and white people (in the us at least) are at the top. Racism is all about punching down, you can't punch up because the groups that aren't at the top don't have any power or influence to really do anything to the top group.

I disagree with this. By definition, it's having a prejudice against, discriminating, or antagonising someone because of their race. While it's TYPICAL the victim is a minority or marginalized, doesn't mean that's always the case.

 

[EilonwyWanderer]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I recommend if you're really interested in it to read a lot of the scholarship around it--there's tons and if you'd like recommendations I can DM you. But it's a really important distinction, which is why I said you could be bigoted against white people--but there's no lasting damage there i.e. white people are not being charged higher mortgage rates for being white or having harder times getting loans. Racism is something that is institutionalized to have lasting consequences against the group that's not in power. And if you do some quick google searches you'll come across some good primer videos about how reverse racism is not a thing. Because the minority groups lack any kind of agency or power to really "punish" the group at the top for being them, whereas the group at the top has loads of power to punish anyone outside their sphere for NOT being them.

 

[ClaraOswald]

Don't you have a son and a husband Clara?

Sorry, I missed this until now because I had you on ignore.
Yes, I have a husband and a son. I also have a dad, brother, nephews, brother-in-law, uncles, many male friends.

I WANT to have them all in my life. I don't, however, need them to survive. I'm a very capable woman. I lived on my own for many years and did just fine.

As for my husband and male friends...I have chosen to have them in my life. And I don't choose to be around men who are misogynists. They would actually all agree that misogyny is a big problem.

How is that relevant?

It isn't. She (or he?) just think she'll get under my skin but I just think it's funny how much they don't understand what I said.

So, if, heaven forbid, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, your husband passes away tomorrow, you wouldn't survive (or vice versa)?

I want my wife to be next to me.
I want my wife to grow old with me.
I don't want her (or me) to die. But I know it will happen. More than likely one of us will have to survive without the other.

Maybe the word that's getting lost in translation is "need". To me, if you NEED something, you can't survive or do things without it.

This. Exactly this.

I probably should have said women don't need men in their lives in order to thrive and be happy.