Do you believe in spanking??

[backalleysally]

I consider your definition of 'spanking' as child abuse, as you use a weapon (and on bare skin).

Well, if that's abuse, I and all my siblings and cousins and neighbors are just fine for having been "abused" and, I trust, so will our kids.

 

[VSL]

Well, if that's abuse, I and all my siblings and cousins and neighbors are just fine for having been "abused" and, I trust, so will our kids.

Wow.. you know how every single one of your neighbours were disciplined as children and you know everything about their psychological wellbeing.

AND you're apparently psychic.

But, then, you did only register at the DIS this month and have just 10 posts under your belt (and are quickly posting on a very controversial topic).

I stand by my statement. Using a weapon crosses the line of 'discipline' and becomes abuse.

 

[chobie]

Wow.. you know how every single one of your neighbours were disciplined as children and you know everything about their psychological wellbeing.

AND you're apparently psychic.

But, then, you did only register at the DIS this month and have just 10 posts under your belt (and are quickly posting on a very controversial topic).

I stand by my statement. Using a weapon crosses the line of 'discipline' and becomes abuse.

I smell troll too.

 

[backalleysally]

Wow.. you know how every single one of your neighbours were disciplined as children and you know everything about their psychological wellbeing.

I stand by my statement. Using a weapon crosses the line of 'discipline' and becomes abuse.

I grew up in a small community, so I know quite a bit about my neighbors.

Well, I respect your right to your opinion about abuse, provided the law leaves both of us free to follow our own beliefs and values in raising our kids. Fortunately, it does

 

[Luv'sTink]

Any form of punishment can work if you do it swiftly (as soon as the bad behavior occurs), consistently (every time the bad behavior occurs - not just when you've had a bad day and lost your patience), and give an explanation. (BTW, I challenge whether you spankers apply your spankings that way).

You just challenged yourself with this statement.

If I take your challange how are you going to proceed to prove anything?

Also, my sisters and brothers were spanked, I was not, I have a much quicker temper and can be more confrontational than my siblings, go figure!

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

However, EVEN IF you do all those things there are still negative side effects from spanking. Kids fear you (vs. respect you - two very different concepts), they learn that when someone does something wrong (including their little brother or sister) it's OK to hit them - that's what their mom and dad do, sometimes they enjoy the attention that spanking gives them.

I was spanked. My father jokes about it now that I was so stubborn he could never get me to cry when he spanked me. My brother would cry before my dad even started. I never feared my father-well other than when I knew I messed up, and my mother said "Wait until your father gets home." Then I had a few hours to think about my mistakes. I always respected and loved him. I would wait for hours on the porch for him to come home from work so we could do things together.

I've never started a physical fight in my life. I've walked away from quite a few. I never 'learned' it's OK to hit someone.

When I teach my college level classes, I have a little "soapbox" moment when I talk about this. I always end by saying that if someone thinks that spanking is so effective, I will start spanking every student that has below a C on the next test. Chances are they would study harder next time right? Those of you are late to work sometimes - it may happen less often if you got spanked for each late day. So maybe a new policy should be implemented... Oh right - those things can't happen - they would be considered assault and the "spanker" could go to jail! Yet it is OK to do if they spanker is a parent and the spankee is our 5 year old child.

So I guess when your students get C's on tests you give them a time out? You said that's effective for children, and as your litmus test if it's effective for children it should be effective to get a C student to study more? Or maybe this is bit of a jump in logic?

I guess I can't change my 2 year old anymore either. If they did that to me at work, I do believe that's against the law. Or is it only OK to compare the adult world to little kids when it supports your argument?

For the record, I spanked my kid once...a swat on the diaper with my hand. I didn't like doing it. We're trying to put him in the corner right now. The way he screams when he's in the corner at first, you'd think we were pulling his fingernails out. I don't judge how other people raise their kids, as long as they're trying.

I don't think spanking is the same as child abuse, and there isn't a time where we discipline our kid where it isn't about a 10 minute process with the shortest time being the punishment.

You know that old cliche 'this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you'? I always thought my dad was a bit of an idiot when he would say that, but now that I have my own son I know exactly what he means. And it's the same for me if I'm making my son stand in the corner.

 

[ChromePirate]

I think that some spankings lead to the child becoming a bully, if they are spanked so many times, then they think it's okay to hit others, causing school problems at first. What would I know, I'm only 13! But the thing is if I have children i would never spank them. Grounding sometimes works, at least for me lol

 

[backalleysally]

I think that some spankings lead to the child becoming a bully, if they are spanked so many times, then they think it's okay to hit others, causing school problems at first. What would I know, I'm only 13! But the thing is if I have children i would never spank them. Grounding sometimes works, at least for me lol

Well, I think because you are 13 you might have an incomplete picture of what some families mean by spanking. In families where kids are hit in order to physically force them to comply with something, it could lead to bullying. In families where it is simply used as a punishment, not in anger, I don't think that there is any message being sent that bullying is okay. (And exerting control over your own dependent kids is not bullying them, I'm sure you realize that! )

 

[kinntj]

I think most people here that describe spankings seems to be non abusive. There's some IMO that it may border on that line. I'm against using things to spank a child. I believe if a spanking is in order, then your hand should be the punishing tool. Then you can feel if you're hitting too hard. My mom use to throw things. If she was sitting at the kitchen table, she would pick up anything that was sitting there and throw it at you if you made her mad.

I was at target and a woman had her son by one arm and swatting him with the other where his back was arching and he wasn't touching the floor. to me that's not called for. Yes, I would have picked my DD up and walked her to the car and headed home. She would have been in time out until what seemed like forever. I'm sure what he did made her mad, but that's over the line.

Parenting is not easy and we have to make difficult choices that might not make us feel good after. I don't spank/hit my child because it made me feel bad, but DH still gives DD's a spank of the butt if he feels it's necessary. Yes, he does only swat them once and puts them on the naughty stool. He's read a Christian parenting book that says to spank them until they cry so you know you got your point across. I don't know if it quotes the bible, but he says it does.

 

[claudia]

I'm one of "those" child psychologists that have been telling parents not to spank. The problem with kids today isn't that their parents listened and stopped spanking... but that they misunderstood and stopped disciplining.

Any form of punishment can work if you do it swiftly (as soon as the bad behavior occurs), consistently (every time the bad behavior occurs - not just when you've had a bad day and lost your patience), and give an explanation. (BTW, I challenge whether you spankers apply your spankings that way). However, EVEN IF you do all those things there are still negative side effects from spanking. Kids fear you (vs. respect you - two very different concepts), they learn that when someone does something wrong (including their little brother or sister) it's OK to hit them - that's what their mom and dad do, sometimes they enjoy the attention that spanking gives them. There are so many other ways to discipline that spanking is just not necessary for us.

Even for the "run out into the street" examples. If you grab your child by the shoulders and pull them close to you and look into their eyes and say in a stern, scared voice "don't you ever do that again" it will be as effective as spanking them.

When I teach my college level classes, I have a little "soapbox" moment when I talk about this. I always end by saying that if someone thinks that spanking is so effective, I will start spanking every student that has below a C on the next test. Chances are they would study harder next time right? Those of you are late to work sometimes - it may happen less often if you got spanked for each late day. So maybe a new policy should be implemented... Oh right - those things can't happen - they would be considered assault and the "spanker" could go to jail! Yet it is OK to do if they spanker is a parent and the spankee is our 5 year old child.

Again - you must still use discipline (swiftly, consistently, and with an explanation) but there are so many better kinds out there (time-out, magic 123, natural logical consequences are a few I heard mentioned here). Use those and don't feel compelled to be your child's friend. S/he'll have plenty of those. But... that's another whole thread and look how long I've already gone on for!!

P.S. Those of you that were spanked as kids and turned out just fine... are you sure? Might you have been "finer" if you'd been exposed to discipline that taught you how TO act not just how NOT TO act. And for those that did turn out as "fine" as you could be - you may have been the exception. That doesn't mean that MOST of those spanked will not have been impacted negatively.

OK - bring it on - I'm ready

I absolutely agree with everything you have stated. My post was short and sweet, but yours has fine tuned all my beliefs!!!

 

[JVL1018]

I have spanked-my daughter I think I have once, my son gets a swat a little more often, but it's not a usual thing.

I'll throw my son over my shoulder and pat his butt, totally kidding around, he loves it, hysterical laughing--I use the same "force" the few times I have spanked him-it doesn't hurt him it gets his attention when words won't. He talks over me and yells and you can't get a word in unless you grab him.
99% of the time, me taking him by the arms and getting in his face is enough and I don't swat him, but when I think it's needed, I do it.

I don't care if any one thinks it's abuse, I actually find it amusing that anyone does.

He does not hit, nor does my daughter, so I don't think it teaches them that hitting is okay. He prefers to call you OLD MAN as his big insult.

 

[kimberlym4]

(Italics added)

I'm sorry but that is the worst argument I've ever heard. You also can't make your college-level kids go with you to the doctor, go shopping, get a bath, go to sleep at 9 p.m., eat their vegetables....(fill in the blank). Those things are reserved to parents. So is spanking.

If you made one of your kids get in your car and spend the day shopping with you at the mall you'd be guilty of kidnapping. Yet parents can do it. Why is that?

It is not my responsibility to make my college level students go to the doctor or get to the mall. It is my responsibility to do all I can to help them learn. My point is that if spanking is as effective and unharmful as many of you say then we should continue to use it with adults. Obviously impossible.

Also, please understand how research is done in this area. Researchers look at groups of kids who have been spanked and groups that have not. They try to ensure that the groups are as similar as possible (for example, socioeconmic status) so that any differences between the groups can be attributed to the spanking vs no spanking condition. Then you look at the average behavior of each group. As a group there are some things that characterize kids that are spanked and some that characterize kids who are not spanked.

Sort of like saying a characteristic of a group of people who took Advil was that they had a decrease in headache pain and a characteristic of the group that did not take it was that their headache pain was not reduced.

Now, it is possible that even though you are in the Advil group your headache does not go away? You'd be in the minority but it's possible. Just because it didn't work for you doesn't mean that Advil isn't effective for most others. The same is true for spanking. As a group, spanked kids exhibit certain behaviors... some in that group may not... it doesn't mean that just because it supposedly made you a better person it will do so for the majority of others who are spanked.

Research in the area isn't perfect. But it is more accurate than asking your neighbor about it (whether you're asking your neighbor about how Advil works for him or about the effect that spanking had on him).

Now as for backalleysally - some have implied that you are posting only to stir the pot. Perhaps you have created a new screen name to post here with more anonymity than you may be afforded with your usual screen name and reputation. If that is true, I find it humorous that you would change your screen name in order to put forth an idea that it is OK to hit a child with a ping pong paddle on their bare butt until they cry. Brave of you.

If I and some of the others are wrong - welcome to the DIS.

 

[chobie]

I have spanked-my daughter I think I have once, my son gets a swat a little more often, but it's not a usual thing.

I'll throw my son over my shoulder and pat his butt, totally kidding around, he loves it, hysterical laughing--I use the same "force" the few times I have spanked him-it doesn't hurt him it gets his attention when words won't. He talks over me and yells and you can't get a word in unless you grab him.
99% of the time, me taking him by the arms and getting in his face is enough and I don't swat him, but when I think it's needed, I do it.

I don't care if any one thinks it's abuse, I actually find it amusing that anyone does.

He does not hit, nor does my daughter, so I don't think it teaches them that hitting is okay. He prefers to call you OLD MAN as his big insult.

I don't think anyone has chararcterized what you do as abuse. Most of us are talking about using objects on bare skin. Do you think THAT is abuse, or is that funny too?

 

[kimberlym4]

So I guess when your students get C's on tests you give them a time out? You said that's effective for children, and as your litmus test if it's effective for children it should be effective to get a C student to study more? Or maybe this is bit of a jump in logic?

Actually, I said there were many effective ways to discipline. Time out was only one of them. It doesn't work in every situation. That's why you need many different techniques. When students do poorly I give them "natural, logical consequences" (another one of, what an earlier poster said, the million ways to discipline). They receive a poor grade and possibly no course credit.

 

[highland3]

Nope! I was raised without spankings and it would appear I turned out okay.

 

[chobie]

Nope! I was raised without spankings and it would appear I turned out okay.

I was raised with them and considering all the names I've been called here on the Dis (nut job, troll, pot stirrer,"most obnoxious poster on the Dis" etc.) I would venture to say that many people, here anyway, would argue I'm NOT okay.

 

[JVL1018]

I don't think anyone has chararcterized what you do as abuse. Most of us are talking about using objects on bare skin. Do you think THAT is abuse, or is that funny too?

I never said that any spanking is funny, not sure why you would think that.
I said I find it amusing that anyone would think a swat on the heinie is child abuse--not that the discipline itself is amusing.
There are people who think spanking is abuse, those were the ones I was refering to, in general, not specifically on this thread...

Hitting with an object, for the most part I'd have to say it is abuse..but then again, my mom whacked us(mostly my brothers) with a wooden spoon from time to time and no way do I consider that abusive..we used to laugh at her, my little 5 ft dynamo Italian mom reaching up to rap her boys on the bicep.

That is a lot different to me than someone beating their child, and really really hurting them.
A sting was about all my spankings ever consisted of, whether it was a hand or the spoon.

Personally, I would never hit my kids with a wooden spoon or any other object, other than a hand.

 

[themarquis]

Also, please understand how research is done in this area. Researchers look at groups of kids who have been spanked and groups that have not. They try to ensure that the groups are as similar as possible (for example, socioeconmic status) so that any differences between the groups can be attributed to the spanking vs no spanking condition. Then you look at the average behavior of each group. As a group there are some things that characterize kids that are spanked and some that characterize kids who are not spanked.

I hope this hasn't already been said, but there might be some serious problems with these kinds of studies. Even if the researchers are very careful to get randomized groups of children who have been spanked/not spanked and have controlled for race, socioeconomic status, region, religion, etc., there will be certain factors common to each group which have nothing to do with spanking per se but which might themselves cause behavioral differences in children.

For example, if you get together a randomized, controlled group of people who spank, you may find that many or most of them are also harsher disciplinarians in general, may have different educational backgrounds than the nonspanking group, and will have different ideas about childrearing, child development, and child behavior than the nonspanking group. It could therefore productively be argued that it is this group's *particular beliefs about discipline/childrearing* which cause behavior differences in their kids; rather than that spanking itself causes the behavior differences. It seems to me that perhaps saying spanking itself causes x y and z (whether x y and z are good or bad things) is very simplistic. I'm not really firmly on either side of the debate, but I would tend to be suspicious of this kind of study.

 

[PaulaSB12]

When children are small there HAS to be a line they can't cross. Its so far and no further. They NEED bounderies, they NEED to know what the rules are and how to live with them so that they can join society properly. There are so many children who have grown up without any bounderies they think they can set light to homeless people for fun. Not only do I think spanking should be allowed but (for the UK) the birch should be brought back. I am totally fed up of gangs of young thugs beating people up and killing for fun!

 

[aprilgail2]

No I don't believe in hitting a child and I would not let ANYONE disipline my child in such a way.