Do schools have an obligation to keep students safe?

[ronandannette]

“In loco parentis” is the term I was trying to remember and sure enough, it’s mentioned in the article. I’m sure this principle will prevail in the lawsuit.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I guess it depends on North Carolina law but in every state I've lived in the school does in fact have a legal responsibility to protect kids and they certainly have a moral responsibility to.

 

[fly girl]

North Carolina, huh? That's all I needed to know.

I am not quite sure how you wanted that to read?

Did you really mean it to read as a broad judgment of North Carolina?

Sadly, I think this type of situation could happen in many states and I wouldn't paint NC with such a broad judgmental brush. I don't think that's fair.


Of course this case is ludicrous. Safety is paramount at a school. The school district is throwing everything including the kitchen sink too not have to pay for their horrendous and cavalier attitude over this serious issue. Will it work? No. Does it make them look even worse? HELL YES!

 

[mumto3girls]

Yes, of course they have a duty to protect. This case seems even worse because it’s not that they missed something but that they knew about it and perpetuated the problem by moving the guy around.

 

[Carol_]

Reading the first post and pulling my kid out of public school as soon as possible…

 

[DLgal]

I am not quite sure how you wanted that to read?

Did you really mean it to read as a broad judgment of North Carolina?

Sadly, I think this type of situation could happen in many states and I wouldn't paint NC with such a broad judgmental brush. I don't think that's fair.


Of course this case is ludicrous. Safety is paramount at a school. The school district is throwing everything including the kitchen sink too not have to pay for their horrendous and cavalier attitude over this serious issue. Will it work? No. Does it make them look even worse? HELL YES!

I know plenty about how the state of NC runs their public school system. Lots of extended family and friends have been in it, in different parts of the state, as both students and educators. I know enough to have moved heaven and earth so that my kids with special needs wouldn't ever have to be subject to them, because we were almost sent there on military orders. My husband's literally put himself in a position to go back to Afghanistan a second time and extend his tenure elsewhere rather than PCS to eastern, coastal NC.

Stories like this do nothing to change my opinion.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

I've been a school staff member for almost 20 years. Our very first responsibility, above and beyond even providing the kids with an education, is to keep them safe. Without their fundamental safety, no amount of educating can even take place. Parents leave their kids in our care for up to seven (or more) hours each day. We are obligated to keep those kids physically, emotionally and psychologically safe. That's not to say the kids won't be involved tough situations or challenges. Schools need to provide boundaries, rules, discipline and consequences for certain choices and behaviors. That said, none of those things should involve any type of abuse, disrespect or put the child in an unsafe position.

I have to complete mandated reporter training every year. I have no doubts, confusion or questions about my responsibility to report suspected abuse of any type. If I have reason to suspect that any form of abuse or neglect has occurred, I am obligated to personally report it. I can't just tell my supervisor. I can't just tell my principal. I have to make the phone call to Child Protective Services or the Police. I can discuss it with my administrator first and he or she can be present during the call for support (if I would like them there). However, just passing the information to someone else and expecting or trusting them to make the call is a violation of the mandated reporter law.

As a parent, I would 100% call the police myself if I thought my child was being abused at school. It's not simply an HR issue. It's a crime with my child as the victim. Even if my child asked me not to, I would still make the call. It's my responsibility to ensure that my minor child is taken care of, and to ensure that the abuser does not victimize other kids in the future. I would assure my child that he or she will be OK. We can get counseling to deal with what happened. We can transfer to a new school. We can move to a new town if necessary. The abuse will stop, the abuser will face consequences and my child will get whatever he or she needs to start to heal.

 

[fly girl]

I know plenty about how the state of NC runs their public school system. Lots of extended family and friends have been in it, in different parts of the state, as both students and educators. I know enough to have moved heaven and earth so that my kids with special needs wouldn't ever have to be subject to them, because we were almost sent there on military orders. My husband's literally put himself in a position to go back to Afghanistan a second time and extend his tenure elsewhere rather than PCS to eastern, coastal NC.

Stories like this do nothing to change my opinion.

You absolutely have a right to your opinion, but your original post had no context to why so it read as a harsh stereotype. There was no background, that is why I asked.

I am glad you never had to move there if you felt that strongly against it.

 

[DLgal]

I've been a school staff member for almost 20 years. Our very first responsibility, above and beyond even providing the kids with an education, is to keep them safe. Without their fundamental safety, no amount of educating can even take place. Parents leave their kids in our care for up to seven (or more) hours each day. We are obligated to keep those kids physically, emotionally and psychologically safe. That's not to say the kids won't be involved tough situations or challenges. Schools need to provide boundaries, rules, discipline and consequences for certain choices and behaviors. That said, none of those things should involve any type of abuse, disrespect or put the child in an unsafe position.

I have to complete mandated reporter training every year. I have no doubts, confusion or questions about my responsibility to report suspected abuse of any type. If I have reason to suspect that any form of abuse or neglect has occurred, I am obligated to personally report it. I can't just tell my supervisor. I can't just tell my principal. I have to make the phone call to Child Protective Services or the Police. I can discuss it with my administrator first and he or she can be present during the call for support (if I would like them there). However, just passing the information to someone else and expecting or trusting them to make the call is a violation of the mandated reporter law.

As a parent, I would 100% call the police myself if I thought my child was being abused at school. It's not simply an HR issue. It's a crime with my child as the victim. Even if my child asked me not to, I would still make the call. It's my responsibility to ensure that my minor child is taken care of, and to ensure that the abuser does not victimize other kids in the future. I would assure my child that he or she will be OK. We can get counseling to deal with what happened. We can transfer to a new school. We can move to a new town if necessary. The abuse will stop, the abuser will face consequences and my child will get whatever he or she needs to start to heal.

Thank you! This should not even be a question/debate.

 

[monsterkitty]

Reading the first post and pulling my kid out of public school as soon as possible…

There are more safety measures in public schools than private schools. Private schools do not have to follow the same rules or laws public schools do.

A child is more at risk at being molested by a relative or close friend of the family than a teacher or school employee.

 

[Cheburashka]

At court hearing, school district argues it shouldn't be held liable for teacher's abuse

This is a story happening close to me. My children never encountered this teacher.

In case the link doesn't work, or people don't want to click on it, the story is that a teacher abused and molested students, over a period of decades, at 2 different high schools. He was reported many times, the school district did nothing--except transfer him to a different school, where the abuse continues. The former teacher pled guilty to 58 counts and is in prison. His victims are suing the district for allowing a predator to continue to teach. The defense claims that schools do not have a duty to keep students safe.

I'm curious to know what people think. Do schools have an obligation to keep kids safe? I thought there were mandatory reporting laws. Don't schools take on the role of protecting students when they have fire drills and mask mandates? Personally, I think the district should have quietly settled--they aren't helping themselves in the court of public opinion, for sure, with this argument.

Note: the civil trial is ongoing. There was another pedophile case at a local middle school, that hasn't been adjudicated yet (either civilly or criminally). In that case, it was found that the school covered up the abuse for 20 years. Every single member of the school board was voted out at the last election, due to the cover-up in that case.

I'm a teacher. Yes, all school employees are mandated child abuse reporters. The district is negligent for failing to respond to complaints. Absolutely, they are at fault.

 

[Cheburashka]

Reading the first post and pulling my kid out of public school as soon as possible…

I'm a public school teacher (have had my son in both public & private schools, so I'm not biased either way). I'll state that it's shocking for any school to not swiftly respond to abuse allegations, and certainly isn't the norm. As a teacher I have had to report child abuse myself, although the abuser was the parent (which is typical), not a staff member. I wouldn't hesitate to report an abusive colleague, though, and neither would any other education professional I know. We love kids and will protect them from abuse to the best of our ability. Same goes for the private schools my son has been at, I'm sure.

The Catholic church ignored & covered up child abuse in private Catholic schools for decades in the past. I hope that doesn't drive people to never attend private schools or churches again, though. Saying you'll pull your child from your own public school due to one awful public school somewhere else seems an overreaction.

 

[monsterkitty]

Let me add that I almost became a statistic when I was 13.

I was a swimmer. I swam for my year-round team as well as the district junior high team.

The coach of the junior high team told me he liked me more than just an athlete. He was stretching me before a 500 free and he rubbed my back and bottom while saying this. It was in front of everyone, but no one saw what was happening. I was very naive and had no idea what he meant.

My year-round coach was there with his school team. After my race, he would also give me feedback. I told him what had happened and asked what the coach meant. He almost flipped his lid. He called my mom and I rode home on an opposing team's bus. I still had no idea what was going on. Hey, I was clueless.

My mom picked me up, asked me what happened, and called the district superintendent. My mom was a teacher in the same district I attended. They immediately suspended the coach and investigated. Not only had he done the same thing with other girls, but he had gone further. Not one parent had said a thing to anyone. My mom was the first to speak up. In fact, the mom of an older girl who had swam on the junior high team and my club team, laughed and said, "that's what he does. Just tell your DD to stay away from him!" The girl later told my older sister that she would go to his house and her parents were okay with it. He picked the wrong person in me.

This was in 1978. He was fired from the district but hired by another district. My club coach saw him at a meet the next season (he was also a teacher) and called the principal at the new school. They fired him. He found himself on the banned list for coaches in 1980. He also lost his teaching license.

In 1981 he was back at a private school, teaching swimming as part of the PE curriculum

 

[Carol_]

I'm a public school teacher (have had my son in both public & private schools, so I'm not biased either way). I'll state that it's shocking for any school to not swiftly respond to abuse allegations, and certainly isn't the norm. As a teacher I have had to report child abuse myself, although the abuser was the parent (which is typical), not a staff member. I wouldn't hesitate to report an abusive colleague, though, and neither would any other education professional I know. We love kids and will protect them from abuse to the best of our ability. Same goes for the private schools my son has been at, I'm sure.

The Catholic church ignored & covered up child abuse in private Catholic schools for decades in the past. I hope that doesn't drive people to never attend private schools or churches again, though. Saying you'll pull your child from your own public school due to one awful public school somewhere else seems an overreaction.

I didn’t say that. I have loads of reasons, but throw this on top of the others and it makes me lean heavily towards private schools or homeschooling.

 

[PollyannaMom]

Schools absolutely have a duty to keep children safe.

 

[SteveH]

@monsterkitty I'm very sorry you went through that but I was very happy to hear your mom took action. Sadly not all parents do, and some administrators try to talk them out of it... or at least they used to - that's a lot more rare these days with hyper sensitivity to abuse situations (thankfully).

 

[QueenIsabella]

I appreciate all the replies. I was genuinely concerned that maybe I was missing something, from a legal perspective, that would make the school not responsible. My oldest is a teacher, and we've discussed mandated reporting, because I know she's been trained in it.

I'm really surprised the district didn't settle. It still pains me, though, because you know darn well that when the district pays, it's really the taxpayers. You know, like me.

 

[SteveH]

@QueenIsabella a couple of thoughgts; I hope your oldest has not only been trained, but required to report suspicion without obstacles being put in place.. Many youth agencies/districts/groups give lip service to it by training then putting requirements like reporting to your supervisor first or completing paperwork first.

Also keep in mind the choice to go to court does not solely lay with the District, the insurance carriers involved often have as much, if not more, say in since the school is not the only one paying out in settlements. One of our local districts fought back over claims they didn't stop an abusive coach, partially pushed by the insurance companies. They ended up winning in court as jury agreed they had done all they could reasonably have done at the time.

 

[sam_gordon]

I'll be honest, when I read the thread title, I had thought there was an accident at a school where a student had gotten injured or killed. But after reading the OP, yes, absolutely the school is responsible for keeping kids safe. And it sounds like they failed. If they had hired someone who passed his (or her) background checks, and no one raised any concerns, and something happened, I could give a school a pass. Doesn't sound like that's the case here.

 

[GreatLakes]

As a broad question it depends on the situation but in the context of the linked article absolutely. If students hadn't alerted faculty about the abuse and they had no way of knowing that is one thing but it sounds like this has a lot of the same echos of the Penn State/Sandusky situation, the Michigan State/Nassar situation, and the decades long Catholic Priest problem. Once an allegation is made there should be a very clear process in place. There should be a protection to investigate false accusations or misunderstandings but it should be thorough and include outside criminal investigation.

The Penn State case especially should have been a wake up call that relying solely on internal investigation is a bad idea.

Whether or not the argument has any legal standing will depend on the statutes in NC but it doesn't pass the logic test for me.

Can this teacher throw a football? If so I'm sure the Browns will sign him.

I’m wondering why the parents did not go directly to the police.

This is another takeaway from that Penn State debacle. Don't rely on the school to do the right thing, as a parent involve the police directly.