Do Prisoners Deserve Christmas Gifts and Cookies?

[mrsklamc]

Yes, everyone deserves a second chance. Once they get out and get a job and keep their nose clean, then fine, give them a cookie. But not until.

What if someone bringing them a cookie is the first time someone sees them as more than a criminal, and that inspires them to keep their nose clean?

 

[luvsJack]

Well, I never said I was a perfect Christian. None of us are. And maybe my opinions on prisoners stem from the fact that my DSIL is a prison guard and oh my goodness, some of the things he tells us...and some of the things he has to put up with from the prisoners. Those things help make me feel that prisoners do not deserve "extras", even at Christmas time. Their family members can give them gifts if they want, but I just feel that there are so many others much more deserving of charities. Prisoners have so much already that they don't deserve, 3 square meals a day, computers, right down to health care, and other things that so many others don't have, including the kids in our schools. No, I do not feel sorry for prisoners, especially the repeat offenders.

Yes, everyone deserves a second chance. Once they get out and get a job and keep their nose clean, then fine, give them a cookie. But not until.

I think you are missing the point of the ministry. Its not about cookies and gifts. That is just one very small part of it. Didn't you say they would also receive a small Bible?

This small act from that church just may be the thing that LEADS a prisoner or two to get out, get a job and keep their nose clean. That little Bible may be the thing that leads him to a better life.

You are putting the cart before the horse.

 

[VickiVM]

Two things come to mind...

"If You Give a Prisoner a Cookie"...don't forget what happened to the mouse

But on a serious note, I just heard this story last week. The compassion some people have is just boundless and amazing.

http://www.npr.org/2008/03/28/89164759/a-victim-treats-his-mugger-right

 

[luvmy3]

You have the choice to never forgive this man and to never offer any kindness to him; but that doesn't make it wrong for someone else to do so.

I never said it was wrong for someone else to but I don't think they deserve it so I would never offer it. What you (general you) choose is up to you, its a personal decision.
What I do think is wrong is teh statement none of us are qualified to judge if these people deserve compassion as said by a pp. I think there are plenty of people who deserve to judge them. How they judge them, and what they think they do or don't deserve is up to them.

 

[luvsJack]

I never said it was wrong for someone else to but I don't think they deserve it so I would never offer it. What you (general you) choose is up to you, its a personal decision.
What I do think is wrong is teh statement none of us are qualified to judge if these people deserve compassion as said by a pp. I think there are plenty of people who deserve to judge them. How they judge them, and what they think they do or don't deserve is up to them.

That would go back to a person's belief in whether any of us should judge. So again, the person you are referring to is not wrong, they just hold a different belief than you.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

A local church asked students in high school to make Christmas cookies for people in jail. The church members are taking the cookies, and socks and Bibles to the inmates.

I think if a person does something to land themselves in jail they have given up their right to Christmas gifts and cookies. They just don't deserve them. I would rather see the cookies and gifts be taken to a nursing home, or given out to the homeless in shelters, etc. rather than to prisoners.

What do you think?

Some places have jail ministries--they minister to jails. Doesn't matter if there are other places to send the "ministering", that is what they do.

I do think it depends on the jail.

Some people actually are learning their lessons and if they have someone share some love--it might actually be a good thing.


As far as nursing homes--we visit a local one. Their calendar listed MANY groups that were visiting them in the month of December. While it would be great to have one more visit, I think it is a stretch to imply that there are nursing homes missing out because these people are visiting a jail.

My preference is that they are visiting a minimal security place where there are no violent offenders. I'd feel differently if they were visiting death row.


Just my $.02.


(I would not participate in such a ministry--I would rather visit a nursing home. But I don't begrudge folks who do, even if they do brink cookies with them.)

 

[luvmy3]

That would go back to a person's belief in whether any of us should judge. So again, the person you are referring to is not wrong, they just hold a different belief than you.

And I think their beliefs are wrong.

 

[mrsklamc]

Even if I'm wrong about not judging...it's silly to talk about "deserving" in terms of Christmas gifts.

 

[luvsJack]

And I think their beliefs are wrong.

you said the poster was wrong.

 

[DMRick]

Not to hijack the thread, but do the nursing homes in your areas let you bring in cookies for patients that aren't your relatives? No concern about allergies or sugar (since many nursing home patients can't have sugar) in the cookies?
Our church has been ministering to a nursing home for about 25 years, and I wish we could make cookies and bring them around the holidays (we bring gifts to those who attend our holiday services, and it's not easy coming up with a non food item)..but it's a no no here.
Same is true about the children's shelter. They only take packaged items, not homemade food.

 

[happygirl]

Not to hijack the thread, but do the nursing homes in your areas let you bring in cookies for patients that aren't your relatives? No concern about allergies or sugar (since many nursing home patients can't have sugar) in the cookies?
Our church has been ministering to a nursing home for about 25 years, and I wish we could make cookies and bring them around the holidays (we bring gifts to those who attend our holiday services, and it's not easy coming up with a non food item)..but it's a no no here.
Same is true about the children's shelter. They only take packaged items, not homemade food.

When we go to the nursery home at Christmas time to sing they ask us not to bring goodies. It's to hard so many of them have set diets that have to be maintained

 

[Nancyg56]

Well, I never said I was a perfect Christian. None of us are. And maybe my opinions on prisoners stem from the fact that my DSIL is a prison guard and oh my goodness, some of the things he tells us...and some of the things he has to put up with from the prisoners. Those things help make me feel that prisoners do not deserve "extras", even at Christmas time. Their family members can give them gifts if they want, but I just feel that there are so many others much more deserving of charities. Prisoners have so much already that they don't deserve, 3 square meals a day, computers, right down to health care, and other things that so many others don't have, including the kids in our schools. No, I do not feel sorry for prisoners, especially the repeat offenders.

Yes, everyone deserves a second chance. Once they get out and get a job and keep their nose clean, then fine, give them a cookie. But not until.

I am always amazed that we want people who have broken the law to somehow become model citizens while they serve their sentence but we don't want to invest the time or the energy showing them how to do this. FTR, I do not believe in parole, a sentence is a sentence IMO but I do think that once a person is incarcerated it is important to bring some sort of humanity if as a society we believe that we want to rehabilitate those who have committed crimes.

I cannot understand how anyone can magically become a productive member of society if society refuses to place value on that person until they are released from prison. Kindness is taught, compassion is taught, work ethics and basic morality is taught..............all by example. If the example set is that one never deserves basic kindnesses until any given group decides that there is room for redemption what incentive is provided for a criminal to make positive changes while in prison. What is the use?

And so that you know, many of those incarcerated have no family, no friends and no one to provide inventive to change the behaviors that got them there in the first place. And many do come out wanting to "keep their noses clean" but no one will hire them, they have no job, no home and no vehicle and no hope. Just sayin'.

The thing about charity it, it is a personal choice. If you feel that your charitable or Christian efforts are better felt elsewhere that is fine. There are nearly a limitless number of charitable opportunities out there.

The thing is, you get to make those choices for yourself. But as long as the Church in question isn't forcing participation from their volunteers, then they really don't need your blessing or approval. Simply let those who wish make their own choices, the way you get to make yours.

Well said.

You can stand by it, but that doesn't make me think you are any less wrong.

You are not wrong to believe whatever you believe. You cannot foist your beliefs on another and state that person is wrong if their opinion differs from yours. I believe respecting that others have the right to different opinions is the first step in learning how to play nice.

 

[DisneyFan32WI]

This would not be my charity of choice this holiday season.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

I'm not seeing a problem with this outreach effort. I can't for the life of me think of a negative outcome, while I can imagine a few positive ones.

It's Christmas time, for crying out loud. Isn't there a "judge not lest ye be judged?" quote?

No, I haven't ever been in jail, nor do I plan to be, however not everyone is there for heinous crimes. If it's jail as opposed to prison they probably haven't even had their trial yet, could be there overnight, and/or were not arrested for anything "serious".

Considering the # of arrests for mental health reason (after the de-institutionalization of mentally ill) or petty drug users--not dealers, first-offense addicts (that I believe should be in treatment before jail) I certainly believe that those in jail should be treated with respect, no judgement, and toss in some holiday baked goods. It's not hurting me and perhaps might show them a little love and caring. Afterall, isn't that what this season is supposed to be about?

 

[npmommie]

My preference is that they are visiting a minimal security place where there are no violent offenders. .

there are violent offenders in minimum security prisons.

 

[englishteacha]

I would think most inmates would receive some sort of gift from their families, though I suppose some don't have family, or their families have disowned them. A relative of mine is currently serving a 60 day sentence for doing something incredibly dumb, and I know his parents and other close family will give him something for Christmas.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

*DISCLAIMER* This is not meant as a religious post. IMHO religion has nothing to do with it. I just found this online a long time ago, and today's discussion has reminded me of it. I thought then, and still think now, that it was a very useful way of looking at how we deal with things like forgiveness and moving past events that happen to shape our lives. *END DISCLAIMER*

The Buddha was sitting under a tree talking to his disciples when a man came and spit on his face. He wiped it off, and he asked the man, “What next? What do you want to say next?” The man was a little puzzled because he himself never expected that when you spit on somebody’s face, he will ask, “What next?” He had no such experience in his past. He had insulted people and they had become angry and they had reacted. Or if they were cowards and weaklings, they had smiled, trying to bribe the man. But Buddha was like neither, he was not angry nor in any way offended, nor in any way cowardly. But just matter-of-factly he said, “What next?” There was no reaction on his part.

Buddha’s disciples became angry, they reacted. His closest disciple, Ananda, said, “This is too much, and we cannot tolerate it. He has to be punished for it. Otherwise everybody will start doing things like this.”

Buddha said, “You keep silent. He has not offended me, but you are offending me. He is new, a stranger. He must have heard from people something about me, that this man is an atheist, a dangerous man who is throwing people off their track, a revolutionary, a corrupter. And he may have formed some idea, a notion of me. He has not spit on me, he has spit on his notion. He has spit on his idea of me because he does not know me at all, so how can he spit on me?

“If you think on it deeply,” Buddha said, “he has spit on his own mind. I am not part of it, and I can see that this poor man must have something else to say because this is a way of saying something. Spitting is a way of saying something. There are moments when you feel that language is impotent: in deep love, in intense anger, in hate, in prayer. There are intense moments when language is impotent. Then you have to do something. When you are angry, intensely angry, you hit the person, you spit on him, you are saying something. I can understand him. He must have something more to say, that’s why I’m asking, “What next?”

The man was even more puzzled! And Buddha said to his disciples, “I am more offended by you because you know me, and you have lived for years with me, and still you react.”

Puzzled, confused, the man returned home. He could not sleep the whole night. When you see a Buddha, it is difficult, impossible to sleep again the way you used to sleep before. Again and again he was haunted by the experience. He could not explain it to himself, what had happened. He was trembling all over and perspiring. He had never come across such a man; he shattered his whole mind and his whole pattern, his whole past.

The next morning he was back there. He threw himself at Buddha’s feet. Buddha asked him again, “What next? This, too, is a way of saying something that cannot be said in language. When you come and touch my feet, you are saying something that cannot be said ordinarily, for which all words are a little narrow; it cannot be contained in them.” Buddha said, “Look, Ananda, this man is again here, he is saying something. This man is a man of deep emotions.”

The man looked at Buddha and said, “Forgive me for what I did yesterday.”

Buddha said, “Forgive? But I am not the same man to whom you did it. The Ganges goes on flowing, it is never the same Ganges again. Every man is a river. The man you spit upon is no longer here. I look just like him, but I am not the same, much has happened in these twenty-four hours! The river has flowed so much. So I cannot forgive you because I have no grudge against you.”

“And you also are new. I can see you are not the same man who came yesterday because that man was angry and he spit, whereas you are bowing at my feet, touching my feet. How can you be the same man? You are not the same man, so let us forget about it. Those two people, the man who spit and the man on whom he spit, both are no more. Come closer. Let us talk of something else.”

That speaks volumes about how we could treat those who speak (or act) ill against us. So often we want to fight back against others who wrong us--whether it be in traffic, religion, sexual orientation, etc, etc. There is a higher road to travel and I've been learning how to walk it more and more. Thanks for posting that.

 

[Buckalew11]

I think prisoners "deserve" to have their basic needs met. I think probably our system goes beyond "basic needs."

Would I be in favor of the prisons providing prisoners cookies and socks? NO.

Am I in favor of a church or other outside group? SURE.

A Christian's greatest commandment from God is to love God and love others. It does not say "love the lovable" or "love only other Christians" or "love only free people not in prison."

While we have 4 people in prison in Knoxville that I find unlovable and can't forgive for a brutal and deadly crime committed against 2 Knoxville young people, if others want to show them God's Love, I'm not even going to veto that one.

I think all people need to feel love in some form or fashion. A church group taking cookies, socks and Bibles is a very kind thing to do.

 

[rentayenta]

Hmmm.....I don't think it's my place to decide who deserves to get what. Everyone has a history and story and it's not my place to judge. Give if you want to give. Give who you want to give to.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

there are violent offenders in minimum security prisons.

Then I stand corrected.


I guess I was referring to the death row murders and the lifetime sentence offenders for violent rapes, murder, or offenses against children.