Do *Parents* No Longer Have Any Discipline?

[nowellsl]

I do attendance in a large elementary school (880 students) . Class starts at 7:45. Our front office staff are not "mean" to the children who check in late -we are required by our school board to ask the reason for the absence. We do require a written note in order for it to be excused. We do see the same students coming in late day in and day out. We do know that 99.9 percent of the time it's the parents fault. We do know that most of the students, when asked the reason for the tardy will repeat what the person ahead of them said - LOL! We would kill to have only 3 students on a sign-in sheet by 10:00. We usually run 2 pages at a minimum. We have students late 2 or 3 times a week or more! It has become a real problem at my school! Even after parents have been notified in writing multiple times they continue to be habitually late - It's really sad for the students who are missing instructional time - and for most of them it's embarrassing to walk in to the class after it has started.

 

[4greatboys]

One is allowed to have their own opinion even if one posts on another board. I have seen several people on this thread give a nasty remark and they dont post at COS so complain about only the ones that post there? Seems others are tabd judgmental too.

 

[Serena]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but I do think the OP was being judgemental. To base such a strong opinion on little to no evidence seems over the top to me.



I think we all need to have a little more compassion to what other's may be going through.

 

[Christine]

Wow!! I go away from the computer for one day and this thread REALLY took off!!!

So many people responded that I'd like to quote some of my favorites but there are just too many....

First, to the poster who wondered about my appointment time: My appointment was at 8:45 a.m. It normally takes about 30 minutes to get there but considering it was rush hour, I allowed myself one hour to get there. It took me 45 minutes, so I had 15 minutes to spare. The doctor took me right at 8:45 and they performed the standard breathing tests and pulse oxygen tests. We were finished at 9:20. It took me until 9:50 to get to the school. I parked the car and walked into the bulding and signed in at about 9:59. That's when I saw the 3 names above me. Now the sign up sheet is done on this 11 x 14 "board". It is kind of hard NOT to see the other responses. But I will say, usually when we return from the asthma doctor at 10:00 a.m. there are FAR more entries (maybe like 10-20) so this was a GOOD day. And yes, this isn't the first time I've seen the "oversleeping" comments.

I think I did state in my OP that I was pretty uptight about lateness. I do find it is something that parents need to teach their children. I think it's important. Do I think someone is a "bad" parent for being late. Heck no. Do I think it lacks discipline and is irresponsble--yes. It takes discipline to be on time and it is a responsiblitity to show up on time for school and work. If you can't do that than you lack discipline and are irresponsible in that area. If it doesn't matter to you--cool. As an employer, let me tell you, it matters and people have lost their jobs here. I swear, these people have never been taught.

Of course, I realize there are special circumstances for being late and OF COURSE I am very understanding of that. I also know that I cannot possible know about these 3 situations. If there are things going on, so be it. But I agree with what one poster said, if that is the case the school is aware of it then the kids/parents would not be writing out lame excuses.

And regarding my children having to be out of the house at 5:50 a.m. Yep, they hate it, I hate it, but that's what we HAVE to do and we do it. I'm a working parent--judge me all you want, you won't be the first and you won't be the last.

When I wrote the OP, I did put on my flame-retardent suit--I kind of knew it was going to be a battle between the the late people and the on-time people. I think I hit a nerve with some of the late people!! And sure, I guess I was judging those parents. No one specifically, but that is what I read and that is EXACTLY how it hit me. Now, it didn't hit me that way out of the blue. My impression was formed out of numerous experiences that have happened over the past few weeks. My DD goes to a private school that starts at 8:00 a.m. (not the same school as DS). We parents were just "spoken" to a few weeks ago about supporting the school administration with school rules and discipline. The principal said that tardiness was getting out of hand. They said that they didn't have a problem with the the 10-12 tardies per semester but there were some that had as many as 46!!!!!! And it was stated that these tardies were due to "oversleeping". They urged the parents to "please make a better effort." Come on--46 tardies?? And this was not an isolated case--apparently there are several cases like this. One of these cases is my DD's good friend. I happen to think her parents are good parents, yet they really CANNOT get their daughter to school on time. And they always take up for her whenever she does something wrong and are siding with their DD rather than the school. Then, on an unrelated subject, a child in my DD's class was removed from the National Junior Honor Society because he was caught cheating. The parent of this child called the teacher and screamed at her for picking on his child and "ruining" his child's chances for college. So, I guess seeing those "late" sign ups was the end to a culmination of weird parenting issues.

I do stand by my original question: I still can't figure out why it is so hard to make it to school by 9:30 a.m. There are no transfer students to this particular school--I know this--and so all kids either have bus service in the very small surrounding area or they are close enough to walk. I am more understanding of the high schoolers who have to drive and be there at 7:30 a.m. There is still a lot of traffic at that time and they travel greater distances to get to school--hey I'm not totally anal!

And yes, I'm one of those painfully punctual people. I think the last time I was late for work due to my negligence was when I was 18 and had been out all night. My alarm has malfunctioned before but never to the point that I cannot recover and make it in. I'm usually very early wherever I go. I guess I have an "inner clock." No, I don't feel superior (I'm waiting for someone to congratulate me for being "perfect"). I just I can't understand the mindset of running late all the time. Especially for school. I guess I find some things sacred--being punctual for school or work and I thought everyone felt that way too. Obviously not.

 

[gymnasticsmom68]

Originally posted by Serena
I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but I do think the OP was being judgemental. To base such a strong opinion on little to no evidence seems over the top to me.



I think we all need to have a little more compassion to what other's may be going through.

I agree.

 

[Blondie]

Originally posted by Maleficent13
BUT...it does seem to me that there are some really angry people on this thread. I feel bad that a thread on the DISboards can make someone so unhappy!

If threads on an internet bulletin board are getting you that riled up, it's time to log off and walk away.

 

[Lucky4me]

Yes, I do believe there are more parents who are less disciplined compared to parents of a generation ago. I have a few neighbors and friends who think nothing of bringing their children in to school late 3 or 4 times a week. Some of the reasons are they don't want to wake the child because they know they'll be crabby, the parent doesn't want to wake up because THEY will be crabby, they didn't get homework done the night before, the child refused to get ready, the child changed their minds about staying home that day or they were waiting for clothes to dry so the child would have something clean to wear. Isn't making sure these things are done the night before in the Official parental job description? Did these people not get a copy?

An occasional family problem or appointment is one thing, but c'mon-why aren't these otherwise seemingly normal people realiizing what they're doing is wrong? It's extremely disruptive to have one or two kids walk in 30 minutes late every day. You are also setting a bad example for your child when you don't try to be on time yourself.

Having said all that, I agree you cannot deem a parent undisciplined based on seeing a sign in sheet on any one particular day.

 

[charabby]

Originally posted by septbride2002
You said in your post that you have improved in this - and I wonder why? Could it be because family and friends were a bit tired of you being late?

Actually, I admit, that *I* was tired of the stress related to being late. I also was tired of feeling guilty for being late. Further, I do not want my kids to also be habitually late and I am trying to teach them better habits than I was taught. Also, I don't appreciate your rude tone.

Originally posted by septbride2002
To me you are being rude when you can't make it on time.

Surprisingly, my lateness has NEVER been a reflection on how I feel about the person waiting. It's a reflection of my scatteredness.

Originally posted by septbride2002
It is difference of opinion between both of us. You don't see being late to be a big deal and I do..

Hmm - never said I don't see it as a big deal (at least not that I remember - it was late when I wrote my post). Really just trying to present the viewpoint of a chronic late person. I know it bugs people, I know I should be on time, and I'm always sorry when I am late.

Originally posted by septbride2002
I can't believe how judgemental people are being on this post. I think the OP has a point - if a parent and child are constantly late then that is a problem. Now, granted that log doesn't show a parent being constantly late and maybe she should have worded it differently...

To clarify for me, my kids are not constantly late for school. Last semester, I think they were late three times - too much for the "I'm never late" crowd, but really good for me since that's somehing I have trouble with.

Originally posted by septbride2002
Editted to clarify my point better and also remove my COS comment - as it was rude.

What's COS?

Also, just want to say that my mom is very punctual - she's one of those people that is painfully early everywhere she goes. As a kid, I hated that and it obviously didn't teach me to be punctual. I have had to really work at learning how to leave my home at an appropriate time - not too early and not too late. It's been even harder for me, b/c I can be so scattered, but like I said, I have improved. I am, before someone can accuse me, NOT saying it's my mom's fault. I am just pointing out that being a punctual parent will not necessarily teach your children to be punctual. Well, I've got to get back to work.

Edited for clarity

 

[septbride2002]

Actually, I admit, that *I* was tired of the stress related to being late. I also was tired of feeling guilty for being late. Further, I do not want my kids to also be habitually late and I am trying to teach them better habits than I was taught. Also, I don't appreciate your rude tone.

I wasn't trying to be rude - just asking what prompted you to decide to take control of this. I apologize if it sounded rude - I have several relatives that only became aware of their problem of running late when it was brought to their attention.

Hmm - never said I don't see it as a big deal (at least not that I remember - it was late when I wrote my post). Really just trying to present the viewpoint of a chronic late person. I know it bugs people, I know I should be on time, and I'm always sorry when I am late.

You are right - you never said that it wasn't a big deal. This is my fault for assuming that it would be okay with you. I apologize for grouping you in with the people I know that tend to believe that their being late is not a big deal.

To clarify for me, my kids are not constantly late for school. Last semester, I think they were late three times - too much for the "I'm never late" crowd, but really good for me since that's somehing I have trouble with.

Actually I don't think 3 times a semester is all that bad - especially when you are organizing more then one child.

COS has nothing to do with you - sorry.

~Amanda

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by Christine
I was stunned this morning!! But, let me say--I'm pretty anal.

I work outside the home full-time and rarely do I get the opportunity to take my son to school. Today, I had to take the day off so that we could go see his asthma specialist. I always book the earliest appointment the specialist has so that my son misses a minimal amount of school. His school day does not start until 9:30. Unfortunately the doctor's office is about 30 minutes away and during rush hour it can be a long commute.

So, I was very happy that I was able to be efficient, have good traffic, a good appointment and make it to school at 10:00 a.m. I get to the "Tardy Sign In Sheet" and there are 3 names ahead of ours. It is obvious by the handwriting that the parents of the other late kids had let their kids fill in the sheet. Student number 1 was late "because Mommy didn't realize how late it was getting." Student number 2 was late because "we overslept." Student number 3 was late because "we couldn't get up on time."

What kind of lessons are we teaching our children? I find that SO totally unexceptable--I'm sure I was standing there with my mouth hanging open. Why can't parents take the simplest responsbility of being on time seriously? I guess these are the kids that will grow up and be persistently late for work. Disgusting!

Gee,
Call me kooky, but, I find it totally unacceptable for you to be reading the tardy sheet and then come on here and broadcast it.
What kind of lessons are you teaching your child? Sign the sheet, give the excuse and leave. It is none of your business.

 

[mickeyfan1]

I have 2 things to say about this. First the question of irresponsibility, what are you teaching your son? That it is OK to read the tardy sheet and comment to 50 thousand people about it?

Secondly, I wish I knew the age of these kids, but I am thinking they may be in junior high or high school? Maybe the parents of these kids are tired of being the alarm clock, or the driver bnecause the kid missed the bus. You know as kids get older, they need to be responsible for their own actions. When my son decided that getting good grades in school didn't matter, I went along with him. After all if he chose not to do an assignment in HS, did it affect me? Not on bit. If he skipped school and got detention, that wasn't my problem. Guess what, he did just fine, maybe a lot better than all his friends whos parents would drive them to school if they overslept andmissed the bus, or monitored all homework assignments, or never let them know what it means to fail in owns own obligations including being on time.

I think they all told the truth, which in itself is commendable. If there is some punishment for tardies, the student is the one who will suffer, not the parents.

I would never have done what you did, OP, sorry. What other people do on a tardy sheet is not my business.

 

[Christine]

Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
Gee,
Call me kooky, but, I find it totally unacceptable for you to be reading the tardy sheet and then come on here and broadcast it.
What kind of lessons are you teaching your child? Sign the sheet, give the excuse and leave. It is none of your business.

As I said in my last post, it is impossible not to see what the sheet says unless I purposely covered it up with my hand, a piece of paper, or shielded my eyes while I wrote right below the other people's excuses. If I can read it, I can read it. No, it's not my personal business but neither is probably 50% of what other people ask questions about on this board. What I'm pointing out is a general trend that I'm noticing, with this incident being the latest in a string of incidents of parents not owning up to their parental duties. Yeah, yeah, yeah we all KNOW that I can't prove that all these kids didn't have major disruptions going on yesterday. It was just an observation really that hit me the wrong way. Now, had I looked at and memorized the names of these kids and then spread it around to the other parents--well, that would have been out of line. Come on, this is a "general" statement on a community board where people talk about this kind stuff all the time.

As far as teaching my son the lesson, he was out the door and in his class before I finished filling out the tardy sheet. He didn't see me doing anything but filling out the form and I would never make derogatory comments to him regarding his school/classmates.

 

[CJMickeyMouse]

WOW..... tunnel vision has never been my strong suit. I notice, when I sign a petition, who are the few who have signed above me. My business? Nope. I notice who comes in late. (How can you not?) I notice who has signed up to help on school committees, who has volunteered to work, and who has not. (Not too difficult since it's usually the same people). I notice if someone drops a dollar.... I pick it up and return it to them.

It's not as if the OP came on here and said Johnny Black, Jenny White and Mark Magenta of Anytown, USA signed in late on Anymonth, Anyday 2004.

I see no reason to attack the OP in addition to (or instead of) giving your opinion on the question asked.

 

[Christine]

Originally posted by mickeyfan1
I have 2 things to say about this. First the question of irresponsibility, what are you teaching your son? That it is OK to read the tardy sheet and comment to 50 thousand people about it?

Secondly, I wish I knew the age of these kids, but I am thinking they may be in junior high or high school? Maybe the parents of these kids are tired of being the alarm clock, or the driver bnecause the kid missed the bus. You know as kids get older, they need to be responsible for their own actions. When my son decided that getting good grades in school didn't matter, I went along with him. After all if he chose not to do an assignment in HS, did it affect me? Not on bit. If he skipped school and got detention, that wasn't my problem. Guess what, he did just fine, maybe a lot better than all his friends whos parents would drive them to school if they overslept andmissed the bus, or monitored all homework assignments, or never let them know what it means to fail in owns own obligations including being on time.

I think they all told the truth, which in itself is commendable. If there is some punishment for tardies, the student is the one who will suffer, not the parents.

I would never have done what you did, OP, sorry. What other people do on a tardy sheet is not my business.

First of all, my son did not see me doing anything but signing in, nor does he know I'm online having this discussion about tardy parents--he is 9 years old.

To answer your second question, this school is Kindergarten - 5th grade and starts at 9:30 a.m. I stated earlier that I am way more tolerant and understanding of a high school student who has to be across town, by car, at 7:30 a.m. which is when our H.S. starts. I also think that H.S. aged kids have to own up at that point to their own responsibility and pay the piper. At the elementary school level, it is the parent's responsibility to set the example. If the parent deems it "okay" to oversleep every once in awhile then that sets a certain tone. Now maybe the three people I "read" about have never done this before. But, I think we have seen from the posts earlier in this thread made by teachers and administrators, that this is a chronic problem, and most likely, what I read was EXACTLY how it appeared. I'm sorry that it bothers you that other people look down on the behavior of tardiness.

Thirdly, I agree with you. They all told the truth and I *do* think that is very commendable. You screw up, you admit it. Much better than to lie in front of your children and make false excuses for oversleeping.

And lastly--you said you would never have done what I did--which was what? Read something that you couldn't help but read (the paper is quite large and everyone writes on it with big handwriting--it's hard not to read it) and then wonder what makes people think it is OK to be late for school? And then to ASK about it on this board? Oh horrors. Being late happens to be a pet peeve of mine and taking children to school late is even worse. And as evidenced by the PMs I have received, I'm not alone. It just seems that the people who are "late" have gotten EXTREMELY defensive about this to the point of being rabid.

 

[mickeyfan1]

Originally posted by Christine
First of all, my son did not see me doing anything but signing in, nor does he know I'm online having this discussion about tardy parents--he is 9 years old.

To answer your second question, this school is Kindergarten - 5th grade and starts at 9:30 a.m. I stated earlier that I am way more tolerant and understanding of a high school student who has to be across town, by car, at 7:30 a.m. which is when our H.S. starts. I also think that H.S. aged kids have to own up at that point to their own responsibility and pay the piper. At the elementary school level, it is the parent's responsibility to set the example. If the parent deems it "okay" to oversleep every once in awhile then that sets a certain tone. Now maybe the three people I "read" about have never done this before. But, I think we have seen from the posts earlier in this thread made by teachers and administrators, that this is a chronic problem, and most likely, what I read was EXACTLY how it appeared. I'm sorry that it bothers you that other people look down on the behavior of tardiness.

Thirdly, I agree with you. They all told the truth and I *do* think that is very commendable. You screw up, you admit it. Much better than to lie in front of your children and make false excuses for oversleeping.

And lastly--you said you would never have done what I did--which was what? Read something that you couldn't help but read (the paper is quite large and everyone writes on it with big handwriting--it's hard not to read it) and then wonder what makes people think it is OK to be late for school? And then to ASK about it on this board? Oh horrors. Being late happens to be a pet peeve of mine and taking children to school late is even worse. And as evidenced by the PMs I have received, I'm not alone. It just seems that the people who are "late" have gotten EXTREMELY defensive about this to the point of being rabid.

OK, they are little kids. They will still be the ones in trouble, not the parents. But where did it say on the tardy sheet that these kids are chronic abusers? You over stepped it a little in my opinion. But since you are so concerned with the problem, instead of coming here to a board of mostly unknown persons, why not get involved with the school and see if you can set up some type of car pool or telephone alarm call for all these people who can't live up to your standards. Being late is your pet peeve, so why not try to do something about it in your son's school? There has to be some creative outlet for your anality.

No, I would never have read the names on the tardy list, and I never did when I took my son in late. I don't read names on any list unless it is something I need to know, volunteer lists, committee lists and all. But if I did see 3 names on the list ahead of me, I would not go from simply signing in to "What kind of lessons are we teaching our children? I find that SO totally unexceptable--I'm sure I was standing there with my mouth hanging open. Why can't parents take the simplest responsbility of being on time seriously? I guess these are the kids that will grow up and be persistently late for work. Disgusting! "

Being late for elementary school = being persistantly late for work???????

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by CJMickeyMouse
WOW..... tunnel vision has never been my strong suit. I notice, when I sign a petition, who are the few who have signed above me. My business? Nope. I notice who comes in late. (How can you not?) I notice who has signed up to help on school committees, who has volunteered to work, and who has not. (Not too difficult since it's usually the same people). I notice if someone drops a dollar.... I pick it up and return it to them.

It's not as if the OP came on here and said Johnny Black, Jenny White and Mark Magenta of Anytown, USA signed in late on Anymonth, Anyday 2004.

I see no reason to attack the OP in addition to (or instead of) giving your opinion on the question asked.

No attack was given. An opinion and a statement and a question.
You don't even want to see an attack by me. Not a pretty sight and very rarely given.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Oh horrors. Being late happens to be a pet peeve of mine and taking children to school late is even worse. And as evidenced by the PMs I have received, I'm not alone. It just seems that the people who are "late" have gotten EXTREMELY defensive about this to the point of being rabid.

It is also a pet peeve of mine, however, what other people do that does not have any effect on me is none of my business.

I am rarely late, but, some of my coworkers are constantly late. Do I care, nope, it does not have one iota of an effect on me. I guess the old adage "tend to your own knitting" works for me.

 

[Christine]

Originally posted by mickeyfan1
But where did it say on the tardy sheet that these kids are chronic abusers? You over stepped it a little in my opinion. But since you are so concerned with the problem, instead of coming here to a board of mostly unknown persons, why not get involved with the school and see if you can set up some type of car pool or telephone alarm call for all these people who can't live up to your standards. Being late is your pet peeve, so why not try to do something about it in your son's school? There has to be some creative outlet for your anality.

Ouch.. I think the flames are burning through my special suit.

I'll be the first to admit I generalized--I think I already said it. I never said that those particular kids are chronic abusers, just that this incident was just another example of a trend I see. Yeah, I think the carpool would go over real well. Honestly, I really don't care about each of these families individually and what they do. It was more a "society as a whole" kind of question. I'm sorry you feel that I am coming down hard on these people and that I have it out for them. I don't. I just wonder why being late to school seems okay with so many people.

I'm also very happy for you that you can isolate your vision SO WELL when filling out forms that you never notice any other writing or ink on the page. I won't hold that trait against you, so don't flame me because I do it and others do it. It would be different if I took the information and hurt somebody with it. Wouldn't dream of it. In fact, this is the ONLY place I discussed this. I didn't mention it to neighborhood friends, etc., because it could have been one of them.

And why can't I come to this board full of mostly "unknown" people and discuss this? It happens here 24/7. Or am I mistaken and everyone here knows everyone except me?

 

[Christine]

Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
It is also a pet peeve of mine, however, what other people do that does not have any effect on me is none of my business.

I am rarely late, but, some of my coworkers are constantly late. Do I care, nope, it does not have one iota of an effect on me. I guess the old adage "tend to your own knitting" works for me.

Well, Gail, you're lucky. Maybe this is why I have a pet peeve. I have to work with people all day and being late has a big impact on how well the work gets performed. Fortunately, the company has done fairly well at getting rid of the biggest offenders, but there's always someone. And I know, there really ARE perfectly valid excuses for being late. I know emergencies happen, but the biggest one I hear is "Uughh, I couldn't get out of bed." Gee, I really didn't feel like getting out of bed either. I would love to ignore them and tend to my own knitting, but their lateness effects me and everyone else.

As far as the families in question, the only place I brought it up was here. Didn't discuss it at the school, neighborhood, in front of kids etc. Just made mental note and thought I could vent anonomously here. It has been interesting to see the differing opinions! I'm also shocked to think that I shouldn't even be having these horrible thoughts.

 

[kasar]

Christine: I can understand your feelings but then again I'm always 5 minutes early for everything.

You were surprised to see that other people don't think the same way and you threw it out here, on the DIS, (like so many of us do) just as an observation and to see if anyone felt the same way. I don't see the harm in your question. You have said over and over that you may have been too judgemental in your initial post and that you made assumptions. Lots of things get "put out there" either to confirm our feelings or to see if others think we're way off base - and you got lots of opinions. I think it takes a lot of guts to admit that you maybe spoke too quickly or made the wrong assumptions. We've all done it.