DL - Why no real dining plan?

[all4fun]

As a WDW veteran, I'm often surprised at the good ideas that aren't shared between Disneyland and WDW.

One of the thing I just don't get is why Disneyland doesn't offer a real dining plan like they do at Walt Disney World.

I know they have those silly little vouchers you can buy with a package that result in a negligible savings, but why not a plan where you can have one table service, one snack, and one counter service each day at a fixed price?

Have they ever considered this?

 

[SamIAm21]

Just purely a guess, but I think DL is considered to be more of a "locals" park where many people just come for a day or two. I'm not sure if there is as much demand for something like DDP because it's not as large a complex requiring as long a stay as WDW. Also, part of WDW's dining plan's "scheme" is that you will not want to go elsewhere to eat if you buy the dining plan. By going offsite to eat, you'd waste the $$ you spent on the dining plan for that day. Between Magical Express and the DDP, WDW has you in its back pocket for the week. Not that that is necessarily a bad thing. However, some families who might have driven to the nearby Applebees to save a little money on dining, will now eat on site because of the DDP.

I would think it would be hard to sell a dining program with DLR given that there are a multitude of pretty good restarants within a block or two just outside gate. Walking distance really.

 

[KelsiesMommy]

Add what SamIAm said to the fact that there just aren't that many table service places available at DLR as there are at WDW, there's another reason not to have it.

 

[EnnEss]

I wondered this too. I've been to DLR many times, but WDW once. After experiencing the WDW program I thought they could implement it at DLR with some tweaks.

The above reasons are probably exactly what DLR execs are thinking, but I think they are probalby wrong and could up their profits with a similar plan, obviously with some changes. They could probably do a lot more if they created more table service restaurants. There is no reason that each hotel doesn't have a Disney themed restaurant as well as putting one in DTD and it seems that CA would be the perfect place to have 2 or 3.

I know there are some restaurants, but I generally don't include character meal places, it's not my thing although they obviously must have them as so many people just adore them. I prefer something with great theming and food.

 

[HydroGuy]

Good points by everyone and I agree. I would go on to say that, on the whole, most DLR vets do not consider dining as part of the Disney experience. I know I never have. For me the truth is that dining at DLR has always seemed a necessary evil - something that takes time away from the parks. Hence, we tried to spend as little time as possible on dining.

After going to WDW last year and seeing how dining at WDW can play into the whole experience, it has made me re-think dining at DLR.

On our next DLR trip I am going to take more time to experience the dining options at DLR. Granted they are not as strong as WDW, but they do exist and I want to experience them.

In summary, I am not sure a DDP at DLR would work as well because dining has never been a big deal for most DLR vets. However, if they continue to develop the resort I believe they can make it so.

 

[AuntieM03]

I noticed last year that Universal Studios had a program where you spent $19.95 (I think) and you could eat/drink all day. It was just counter service but it seemed like a good deal. I wouldn't mind something like that at Disneyland.

 

[all4fun]

I think any offering such as this would make it easier for some folks to plan.

Even if it they limited the participating restaurants to exclude places such as the Napa Rose, or had two credit "signature" restaurants, it would be something many people would consider.

People might consider DL as more than a local's place if the management had more options that would make it feel like a destination.

 

[wdwishes1990]

IMHO the WDW dining plan isn't much of a deal either. Basically they just get you to pay to go to more expensive restaurants up front. We ran the numbers one trip with the dining plan, one withough DDE discount. We came out 200 ahead and probably 10lbs lighter without the dining plan.

 

[newfamilyman]

I don't think a DDP would ever work financially at DLR because its purpose in WDW is to fill up all the hotel rooms and take business away from WDW's competitors. In CA, not only are there many fewer hotel rooms to fill up, but the ones they do have have enjoyed an extremely high occupancy rate, if you believe what you read on the internet. And in spite of the previous poster's opinion, clearly for many people, the DDP is a money-loser for Disney at least as far as the food part of the bill is concerned and one they recoup, and then some, on the hotel proceeds.

Maybe I haven't been looking, but it's nice to see you post hydroguy. I hope that you finally get around to publishing your WDW for DLR vets guide soon. In particular, I'll be interested to hear your recommendations on how you accomplish rope drops in at least the first few days when your body is still on PST.

 

[spazzyjazzy]

During our whole vacation we will eat a full meal at Disneyland maybe 1 or 2 times for our 5 day visit to the park. There are so many other options outside of the park and a whole lot cheaper. That may be another reason on why it's not such a big deal at Disneyland.

 

[Amy&Dan]

I think that it is a very good possiblity that dining at the DLR will continue to develop. They recently turned Cafe Orleans into a full service eatery. They are continuing to make DLR more of a destination and I think that will increase the liklihood of some sort of dining plan. However, I think its probably limited in how they can do that vs. WDW. One thing to think about is the restaurants at DTD. At WDW many of the places at DTD don't take the DDP. Its not a big deal since DTD is not attached to a park and there are so many places in the parks and resorts to choose from on the DDP. But I could see that causing those restaurants at DL's DTD some headache's if Disneyland starts up a DDP. They would either have to take a DDP or lose out on business. DL's DTD is just an extension of the parks so it has to be part of any plan they do.

The whole issue of offsite lodging being more appealing at DL vs. WDW just makes this more complicated. The DDP at WDW is tied to staying onsite. At a minimum of $200 a night (and thats off season) to stay onsite at DL, even some good dining deals would still not make it appealing enough for many people to buy into it. You can stay at Pop Century at WDW for $79 a night and get the DDP. You can't do that so cheaply at DL. So a DDP at DL will probably continue to be some sort of voucher system not tied to room nights onsite.

Also there is not the potential to develop that many new restaurants at DL. With Cafe Orleans they had to just turn a cs place into a ts place. I am not sure how many times they will want to do that. They need those cheaper cs places to keep people from going over to Harbor Blvd. and eating at Denny's or IHOP for cheap. Too many ts places in DL will probably just spell an exodus of more people leaving the park to eat elsewhere. At WDW you have to have a car to venture offsite to eat. At DL all you need is two legs and about five minutes to be eating offsite.

I'd love it if they did for convenience and budget sake however. But I also know that if the higher ups at DL see this as a way to improve the experience of their guests and increase their profits they will do it. The fact they haven't tells me a DDP doesn't make sense for DL yet. Someday hopefully!

 

[tinkermell]

I loved the dining plan at WDW and do wish they had it here at DL. I think it would be possible to have something like it here too, just not on as big as scale as WDW. But that makes sense because DL isn't nearly as big either. DLR could have about 3 signature restaurants- Blue Bayou, Napa Rose and the Vineyard. The rest of the restaurants and character meals could be table service vouchers. And DTD could be in the plan also. They are at WDW! If they would offer it, I would buy it! It really helps with the budget planning and it's fun knowing you can have a sit down meal also. I totally agree with Hydro Guy about changing your views on eating at DL. Until we went to WDW, didn't pay much attention to food. Now we do. But, and that is a big but...being on these boards have really taught me alot and have gotten me into this sort of stuff too. We never used to go more than one day at DL, but since WDW, want to spend more time than that. First time was last Dec. and spent 3 days there. Then I did want to have a nice meal, besides all counter service. So why can't they change it? The same people who buy their plan now, would still buy the new plan....even more. Thus more money in Disney's pockets. I for one, am wishing that someday they will try something better!

 

[HydroGuy]

Maybe I haven't been looking, but it's nice to see you post hydroguy. I hope that you finally get around to publishing your WDW for DLR vets guide soon. In particular, I'll be interested to hear your recommendations on how you accomplish rope drops in at least the first few days when your body is still on PST.

I got it posted about a month ago here:

"An Introduction To WDW For DLR Vets" www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1332683. I posted it on the WDW forum, but posted a thread here to alert folks that it was done.

Regarding rope drop, we are Mountain time so that is only a two hour change for us. I do not remember it being that hard - we got to our room at 6PM on a Friday, and got everyone showered and clean and then to bed a bit earlier than normal - by 11PM Florida time. We let everyone sleep until 7:30AM Florida time, got up and out the door by 8AM, and then took a taxi to MK and made it by 8:30AM. We took a long break and nap on day 1. After that we were pretty much on Florida time.

You do have a bigger adjustment in Pacific time and I do not know how best to handle it. One potential idea is to schedule Epcot World Showcase for Day 1, which does not open until 11AM.

Maybe others here might have better ideas. Have you started a thread on this?

 

[HydroGuy]

I think that it is a very good possiblity that dining at the DLR will continue to develop. They recently turned Cafe Orleans into a full service eatery. They are continuing to make DLR more of a destination and I think that will increase the liklihood of some sort of dining plan. However, I think its probably limited in how they can do that vs. WDW. One thing to think about is the restaurants at DTD. At WDW many of the places at DTD don't take the DDP. Its not a big deal since DTD is not attached to a park and there are so many places in the parks and resorts to choose from on the DDP. But I could see that causing those restaurants at DL's DTD some headache's if Disneyland starts up a DDP. They would either have to take a DDP or lose out on business. DL's DTD is just an extension of the parks so it has to be part of any plan they do.

The whole issue of offsite lodging being more appealing at DL vs. WDW just makes this more complicated. The DDP at WDW is tied to staying onsite. At a minimum of $200 a night (and thats off season) to stay onsite at DL, even some good dining deals would still not make it appealing enough for many people to buy into it. You can stay at Pop Century at WDW for $79 a night and get the DDP. You can't do that so cheaply at DL. So a DDP at DL will probably continue to be some sort of voucher system not tied to room nights onsite.

Also there is not the potential to develop that many new restaurants at DL. With Cafe Orleans they had to just turn a cs place into a ts place. I am not sure how many times they will want to do that. They need those cheaper cs places to keep people from going over to Harbor Blvd. and eating at Denny's or IHOP for cheap. Too many ts places in DL will probably just spell an exodus of more people leaving the park to eat elsewhere. At WDW you have to have a car to venture offsite to eat. At DL all you need is two legs and about five minutes to be eating offsite.

I'd love it if they did for convenience and budget sake however. But I also know that if the higher ups at DL see this as a way to improve the experience of their guests and increase their profits they will do it. The fact they haven't tells me a DDP doesn't make sense for DL yet. Someday hopefully!

Amy, I think you are right on here. I would add though that even while there are expensive Disney hotels close to less expensive non-Disney hotels, the Disney hotels still fill up much of the time. People are willing to pay a premium to stay within the Disney experience. I suspect as they continue to develop the resort, something similar can develop with the dining. People will also pay extra to eat at Disney themed restaurants. You are right that this will conflict with the DTD restaurants and DLR would need to address that.

As I read about the possible addition of a third park on Katella, I think DLR still has a lot of potential to draw more visitors from outside the local base.

 

[SamIAm21]

As I read about the possible addition of a third park on Katella, I think DLR still has a lot of potential to draw more visitors from outside the local base.

REALLY? A third park? REALLY?

Can you expound on that a little bit or point me in the direction of an article regarding that possibility. I would love a third park there in the DLR area.

Wow!

 

[HydroGuy]

REALLY? A third park? REALLY?

Can you expound on that a little bit or point me in the direction of an article regarding that possibility. I would love a third park there in the DLR area.

Wow!

Uh oh, the rumor mill is cranking up...

For several years there has been talk of a third park at DLR. Many feel that with DCA needing "fixing", that a third park should not be built until DLR improves DCA. This is supposed to happen over the next 3-4 years, with possibly $600+ million spent on DCA improvements. See

"Al Lutz Update Today: Pirate's Lair, Toy Story Mania and More"
www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1342036

and

"The Lasseter Effect: DCA Upgrades and Other Great News"
www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1241090

In any case, speculation began anew with an interview last week with Ed Grier, the new DLR president, in the Orange County Business Journal. Here is a link:

"New Disneyland Boss To Oversee Changes, Possible Third Park"
http://www.ocbj.com/article.asp?aID=08328516.2502055.1424540.1955928.9545847.329&aID2=109571

In truth this sounds like a long term plan for after 2010. But it is intriguing.

 

[SamIAm21]

A third park would be great, but you're right. They need to get DCA sorted out first. Then... could we possibly see a Disney Sea?

Okay, I'll just cap that little giggle that just sprang up! Wouldn't that be AWESOME!??

 

[Amy&Dan]

Amy, I think you are right on here. I would add though that even while there are expensive Disney hotels close to less expensive non-Disney hotels, the Disney hotels still fill up much of the time. People are willing to pay a premium to stay within the Disney experience..

The hotels do fill up especially on the weekends. But a lot of that is locals with AP's, during those sold out weekends. I still think a DDP for DL is a great idea, I would certainly do it. But since the main purpose of the DDP at WDW was for Disney to make money by keeping guests onsite I still have to wonder how that will work in Disneyland. With its many offsite restaurants in walkable distance, numerous AP holders (you can't do the DDP at WDW with an AP unless you are staying on points at a DVC resort; WDW does not have nearly the AP factor DL does) and fewer restaurant possibilities. And I still think the whole DTD set up at DL will make it more of a challenge. Some places at WDW's DTD do take the DDP. But more don't. But it doesn't matter since WDW's DTD is more remotely located and there are enough other full service Disney owned restaurants to keep everybody happy, fed and making money. I think I would be happy for now if DL would just improve the current voucher system they have. As it stands it doesn't save you any money and its hardly even advertised. If they would just expand that it would be a start at least.

 

[newfamilyman]

I got it posted about a month ago here:

"An Introduction To WDW For DLR Vets" www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1332683. I posted it on the WDW forum, but posted a thread here to alert folks that it was done.

Regarding rope drop, we are Mountain time so that is only a two hour change for us. I do not remember it being that hard - we got to our room at 6PM on a Friday, and got everyone showered and clean and then to bed a bit earlier than normal - by 11PM Florida time. We let everyone sleep until 7:30AM Florida time, got up and out the door by 8AM, and then took a taxi to MK and made it by 8:30AM. We took a long break and nap on day 1. After that we were pretty much on Florida time.

You do have a bigger adjustment in Pacific time and I do not know how best to handle it. One potential idea is to schedule Epcot World Showcase for Day 1, which does not open until 11AM.

Maybe others here might have better ideas. Have you started a thread on this?

Thanks, I missed it. I did post a thread on TGM.

 

[undertheradar]

Enacting a dining plan like the WDW one is not possible at DL as of current dining options. The added dining of EPCOT, AKL and MGM are too expansive for DL. The dining plan at WDW was designed to keep ALL of the spending within WDW property, detering guests from visiting USO/IoA. The negative of the dining plan has been the lack of available seating at favorite locations. Years ago when King Stephans(sp) was in existence, it was possible to eat at the castle and book it same day. With the new dining plan, it is not advisable to visit the parks without a detailed plan of attack for dining. It is okay if things stay as they are here at DL.