Disney's ROFR threshold these days?

[las3888]

I was just wondering if anybody has any idea of what Disney's ROFR is on a resale these days? We are looking at a BWV contract for less than 150 points...no points until next year. Has Disney been snatching up contracts lately? I haven't been on the boards in a while (busy having DS #1), but before when I was pregnant, I was reading how Disney was buying ALOT of contracts up....anybody???

 

[JeanJoe]

I was just wondering if anybody has any idea of what Disney's ROFR is on a resale these days? We are looking at a BWV contract for less than 150 points...no points until next year. Has Disney been snatching up contracts lately? I haven't been on the boards in a while (busy having DS #1), but before when I was pregnant, I was reading how Disney was buying ALOT of contracts up....anybody???

There's an ongoing thread on the DVC Community Board that Beca started that has been very helpful, and yes, it does seem as if Disney seems to be snatching up contracts at higher prices per point lately:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=720134

Good luck! (And congrats on DS#1)

ps - we're waiting on a BWV contract too!

 

[las3888]

Thanks, JeanJoe...interesting thread! Hard to tell what, if any, pattern there is to ROFR. It almost seems random. Hmm....well, I guess we will enter this with alot of caution!

 

[bethyg]

Talked with Maribella at DVC this afternoon about this very subject. She emphasized DVC has ROFR and is buying nearly every contract because she said so many members were calling requesting to purchase additional points.

 

[JeanJoe]

Talked with Maribella at DVC this afternoon about this very subject. She emphasized DVC has ROFR and is buying nearly every contract because she said so many members were calling requesting to purchase additional points.

I wouldn't quite say "nearly every contract" based on the small and unscientific list on the ROFR thread, but it seems that maybe 1 in 3 to 1 in 4 are getting ROFR'd.

In addition to random, unknown factors, it seems that when buying resale, you might be better off not going for a GREAT deal, which when my wife and I realize has already been announced, and then snatched minutes later, we console ourselves by saying "Oh well, that one was ROFR bait anyway." So, our resale offer, I think, was in the "good" deal range; nice enough to save a little money, hopefully will make it past ROFR.

On the other hand, you could jump on all the great offers, and eventually, maybe one will slip past ROFR un-noticed...

 

[JimMIA]

Talked with Maribella at DVC this afternoon about this very subject. She emphasized DVC has ROFR and is buying nearly every contract because she said so many members were calling requesting to purchase additional points.

She told me the same thing a week before we passed ROFR. I would take anything a guide tells you about ROFR with a huge helping of salt.

 

[JimMIA]

Boardwalk is actually the resort where we have the best idea of where the ROFR line is. There are a lot of transactions recently at BWV on Beca's thread. It's hard to know precisely where the number is, but you can get a pretty darn good idea - unlike some other resorts where it is somewhere in a 5-point spread.

You may also want to look at this thread for some thoughts about ROFR. http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=794010
It will give you some ideas about ways to price your offer so that you feel pretty comfortable it will be above the ROFR threshhold.

 

[T.E. Yeary]

I'll take a good look at our records and give you a breakdown of the last 100 closings. They are usually a good indicator of what's going on.

Tom

 

[JimMIA]

I'll take a good look at our records and give you a breakdown of the last 100 closings. They are usually a good indicator of what's going on.

Tom

Wow, Tom! That would be a huge help to a lot of people if you could do that!

 

[T.E. Yeary]

These stats reflect, to the best of my knowledge, the buy backs of our last 100 deals sent to DVC. I picked an easy number 100 because that is what we average sending over per month and it is easy to come up with a percentage. There were 15 buy backs, 85 passed ROFR, so the average # of buy backs by Disney was 15%. The percentage has increased, our average last year was 7%. The numbers REPORTED on Beca's thread will vary as those reflect Resales by other companies and FSBO's, as well as our own. Our agents do counsel purchasers as to where their prices should be to avoid being ROFR'd. They don't have a crystal ball and sometimes the customer doesn't heed the advice. All any of us can do is never,never, never give up!!

3/1 OKW 220 $70
3/5 BWV 200 $74
3/5 HH 50 $60
3/9 BWV 480 $74
3/10 VWL 150 $70
3/11 VB 100 $65
3/12 BWV 100 $80
3/12 OKW 330 $72
3/15 BCV 220 $74
3/19 OKW 220 $70
3/19 BWV 300 $74
3/22 BWV 150 $70
3/23 BWV 150 $76
3/25 BWV 170 $73
3/25 OKW 210 $70

I hope this will be helpful to all.

Sincerely,
Tom

 

[JimMIA]

That's great info, Tom...thanks!

Your crystal ball is pretty good, BTW, although we all know ROFR is a constantly moving target. I had an OKW contract at 73 right during that period (actually maybe a week earlier) and discussed offering 72 with Pat. Pat said she had seen 72 ROFR'd, and sure enough, two days after I passed at 73, one was ROFR'd at 72. Not bad!

 

[LauraLea]

and 2 of those on Tom's list were mine..............

Laura

 

[DVCconvert]

Tom, with regard to at least BWV,

3/19 BWV 300 $74
3/22 BWV 150 $70
3/23 BWV 150 $76
3/25 BWV 170 $73

has it, or does it seem to matter if a contract has any '05 points and/or '06 points coming?

 

[Cinderpals]

Hi!

I hopped over from Beca's thread. Just wanted to share with you that I was told BCVs were being ROFR at as high as $80 per point and BWV as high as $75. Not every contract at that price per point will get Rofr of course. One of my BCV passed at 81 per point and my BWVs passed at 77 per point last month. I would have gone as low as 80 BCV and 76 BWV.

 

[JeanJoe]

Tom, with regard to at least BWV, has it, or does it seem to matter if a contract has any '05 points and/or '06 points coming?

Agreed. I was very appreciative as well for Tom sharing the information, but I think we all know that the usefulness of the information is limited, without details on:
- banked / borrowed / remaining in current UY / reservation(?) / held(?) points
- who pays closing costs (default seems to be buyer?)
- who pays transfer fee (default seems to be seller?)
- who pays maintenance fees of current UY (default seems to be buyer?)

I'd be surprised if a realtor / broker could legally (or possibly even ethically) share all the details of the information. On the other hand, aren't some aspects of real estate transactions part of the public record?

All of these are likely to factor in the DVC ROFR Guy/Gal's decision (as well as whether an existing waitlist request matches the contract). (Related to this, it seems people believe that DVC can split and/or consolidate ROFR'd contracts with UY, right?)

I'm developing a paranoia delusion. I imagine the DVC ROFR guy following these posts, and laughing maniacally. Or maybe, sighing with pity as he/she dropped the axe on another one of us.

Joe

 

[JimMIA]

I'm developing a paranoia delusion. I imagine the DVC ROFR guy following these posts, and laughing maniacally. Or maybe, sighing with pity as he/she dropped the axe on another one of us.

Just because you're paranoid...doesn't mean they are not out to get you!

 

[JimMIA]

If you want to get really crazy over ROFR, look at these BWV contracts which are a combination of info from Tom's post and Beca's ROFR thread. I'd be fascinated to know the pattern here:

[Edited to add three I missed in italics]

2/25 79 passed
3/5 74 ROFR
3/9 74 ROFR
3/12 80 ROFR
3/14 78 passed
3/14 78 passed
3/19 74 ROFR
3/22 70 ROFR
3/23 76 ROFR
3/25 73 ROFR
4/1 69! PASSED!
4/4 78 passed
4/4 78 passed
4/6 80 ROFR
4/11 80 passed

I think it has something to do with "Baseball makes no sense!"

 

[JimMIA]

- banked / borrowed / remaining in current UY / reservation(?) / held(?) points

My guess - and this is JUST a guess - is that the ROFR dude/dudettes are not concerned with banked, reservation, holding points. I'd bet they are looking at forward points, because that's what they can sell.

- who pays closing costs (default seems to be buyer?)

You're right, that's the default. But a better way may be for the buyer to pay a little more per point and have the seller pay closing.

- who pays maintenance fees of current UY (default seems to be buyer?)

Actually, I saw a very interesting post here recently (I believe by Caskbill) pointing out that maintenance fees have nothing to do with use year. They are calendar year fees for the upkeep of the property, not fees which are related to a particular batch of points. And therefore, they should be apportioned - as Disney does - based on who owned the contract during what period of time, not who had the points.

 

[JeanJoe]

My guess - and this is JUST a guess - is that the ROFR dude/dudettes are not concerned with banked, reservation, holding points. I'd bet they are looking at forward points, because that's what they can sell.

I don't know... I would think that unused points going to waste must mean rooms someplace not being used, which they could then sell for cash payers. Just conjecture.

But a better way may be for the buyer to pay a little more per point and have the seller pay closing.

This makes the advertised cost per point LOOK higher (and makes us feel like we've got a better chance at passing), but the actual cost to the buyer OR to to Disney if ROFR'd remains the same. If I were the Disney ROFR dude, I wouldn't be fooled by this. (I.e., 150 point contract: 1) $75/point, buyer pays $450 closing = buyer ends up paying $78/point; vs. 2) $78/point, seller pays closing; these are the same.)

Actually, I saw a very interesting post here recently (I believe by Caskbill) pointing out that maintenance fees have nothing to do with use year. They are calendar year fees for the upkeep of the property, not fees which are related to a particular batch of points. And therefore, they should be apportioned - as Disney does - based on who owned the contract during what period of time, not who had the points.

I saw the same. I believe Dean posted that he has very strong feelings in agreement with this, and that there are others who have equally strong feelings the other way.

Personally, I don't think it matters. Just figure out the bottom line: how much lower my bank account would be at the end of it all. If it were currently December, and MF were $3/point (charged in Jan and paid by the seller back then), I'd consider the following 2 contracts identical: 1) $75/point, buyer pays past year's MF; 2) $78/point, seller pays past year's MF because it's December. If it's Jun/Jul, make the value difference $1.50/point difference if prorating occurs, because half the year's gone by.

But when comparing a resale contract and buying direct, I guess it is important, to take this into account (especially if the deed passes hands close to the end of the year).

In any case, I think it's become clear that as a buyer of a resale contract, haggling over the contract terms matters less than whether Disney will ROFR you if you haggle too well. And as you posted, there are odd discrepancies in Disney's behavior.

Out of curiosity, has anyone here been around long enough to have a sense of a historical trend (say, over just the last two or three years) of ROFR levels, and concomitant changes in price per point on the resale market?

Once again: take everything I ponder with a boulder of salt. I only went on the DVC tour for the 1st time 19 days ago, and am clearly no expert.

 

[ColoradoBelle1]

Thanks Tom, for sharing those closng prices pp at BWV. And to Jim too, for adding in some from Beca's list. Since I bought at BWV, I was even more interested!!!!!

As Tom said, my broker told me that she felt $76 a point was scary re ROFR, adn I bumped it to $76.50...Actually, since the contract read that seller would pay maintenance fees...the contract price was $80.50 per point. My reasoning was that the seller had already paid the maintenance in full in January, and I doubted that Disney would reimburse them if it ROFRd (tho I don't this for a fact...maybe Tom could help with this question. But Disney would have to pay them $80.5. My second reasoning was that I had the entire amount of 2004 AND 2005 points FREEEEEEEE!!!!! ( well, you know what I mean!)

I think it has something to do with USE YEAR. For some reason, i don't think old Disney can change the use year of the contract they buy when they sell it. So, if there was a waitlist for my use year and a similar number of points as I had....then Disney might be more eager to snatch it up. My use year, February, doesn't seem to be as popular as some....so maybe BWV buyers weren't waitlisting that use year. And that is all I am going to say about that!