Disney's Dark Kingdom (Complete list on pg 24)

[Faldred]

Of course it's possible for them to add a 5th gate. It just isn't practical.

It also has nothing to do with having "plenty of money to spend"; it's return on investment that matters.

With the exception of a few weeks here and there during peak holiday periods, WDW is nowhere near capacity in the parks or the resorts. Adding more capacity just for those few weeks would be insane from a business perspective.

It's not just the cost of building a park. It's maintenance. It's staffing -- a real problem because the cheap labor pool in the Orlando area is pretty much tapped out. It's additional transportation overhead for moving guests around.

No, for the foreseeable future, it makes much more sense to expand within the four parks they already have than to build a 5th park. If they were to build a new park domestically, it's far more likely to be something like the Disney's America project they tried in Virginia some time ago -- a specialized theme park that wouldn't (overly) cannibalize their own crowds in WDW. And even that kind of project seems highly unlikely.

 

[Figment632]

I'm with Fanatic on this one, people complain too much about a 5th gate. Believe me Disney has plenty of money to spend. Besides they could use another park to spread out the crowds during the holidays. Its crazy during these times of the year. You can't even move an inch.

They can't even keep the four parks they have up to Disney standards and you want another park?

 

[Dfan79]

They can't even keep the four parks they have up to Disney standards and you want another park?

People would find fault in even a perfect world. There is always room to improve in everything.

 

[tjkraz]

Believe me Disney has plenty of money to spend. Besides they could use another park to spread out the crowds during the holidays. Its crazy during these times of the year. You can't even move an inch.

Disney may have "plenty of money to spend" but ROI is key. And there are many more profitable ways to spend a couple billion dollars than building another theme park in Florida.

As for the parks being too crowded, YOU may not like it but that's exactly how Disney wants to see things. It's what the parks were designed for. There was never any intent to offer 5-10 minute waits across property.

Crowds are truly oppressive only a handful of days out of the year around Christmas and Easter. And again, Disney isn't going to spend a couple billion dollars just so the Easter Sunday wait time at Space Mountain goes down from 100 minutes to 80 minutes.

When Disney commits to building a park, they have to spend hundreds-of-millions of dollars on infrastructure alone. We're talking about utility lines, roads, parking lots, waste management, security, Cast Member services, computer control systems, restrooms....all of that before you add a single attraction. That's money wasted when there is still room for expansion at the existing parks.

The commitment to an Avatar-land at DAK is a huge step for Disney. Attendance at DAK and DHS is nearly half of the Magic Kingdom. Those are parks which have room for growth.

Disney has room for similar projects at Hollywood Studios and even Epcot where new World Showcase pavilions could be added, Wonders of Life refreshed, etc.

As I said many pages ago, if there is a "fifth park" it will most likely follow Sea World's Discovery Cove model, offering a limited number of unique experiences to a small number of guests for a very high price.

If you believe Disney will build another traditional theme park simply because they have the money and lines are too long, you are thinking with your heart rather than your head. Businesses simply don't think that way.

 

[Figment632]

People would find fault in even a perfect world. There is always room to improve in everything.

A 5th gate would not help but only hurt WDW. This is what's going on with no 5 gate.

1. Big Thunder Mountain missing half of its effects.
2. POTC looks terrible and that can't even keep the hats on the hat pirate.
3. Soarin looks embarrassing
4. TT is coming apart at the seams.
5. EE No Yeti
This is just a few examples this would get worse with another park to maintain.

Plus what you have.

 

[tjkraz]

A 5th gate would not help but only hurt WDW. This is what's going on with no 5 gate.

1. Big Thunder Mountain missing half of its effects.
2. POTC looks terrible and that can't even keep the hats on the hat pirate.
3. Soarin looks embarrassing
4. TT is coming apart at the seams.
5. EE No Yeti
This is just a few examples this would get worse with another park to maintain.

Plus what you have.

While we agree on the 5th park, not sure that this plays any role in it.

It's not like Disney is incapable of increasing maintenance staff & budgets, rather it's a case of them being unwilling.

They are certainly capable of building additional parks and applying similar standards. But additional parks just aren't sound investments for a variety of other reasons.

 

[Figment632]

While we agree on the 5th park, not sure that this plays any role in it.

It's not like Disney is incapable of increasing maintenance staff & budgets, rather it's a case of them being unwilling.

They are certainly capable of building additional parks and applying similar standards. But additional parks just aren't sound investments for a variety of other reasons.

If they are so capable BTM and PotC wouldn't be in the state that they are.

 

[tjkraz]

If they are so capable BTM and PotC wouldn't be in the state that they are.

Again, you're confusing capability with willingness.

Disney is certainly capable of maintaining those attractions. They have the technical skills on staff and / or the resources to bring in additional staff if necessary.

What they apparently don't have is the willingness to address those issues in a manner that would satisfy you.

BTMR is scheduled to close for several months early next year. Most--if not all--of the attraction's problems will be resolved then. Disney has the expertise to fix it. What they don't have is a willingness to spend additional dollars on band aid fixes or larger crews who might be able to whittle away at the problems during overnight shifts.

 

[Figment632]

Again, you're confusing capability with willingness.

Disney is certainly capable of maintaining those attractions. They have the technical skills on staff and / or the resources to bring in additional staff if necessary.

What they apparently don't have is the willingness to address those issues in a manner that would satisfy you.

BTMR is scheduled to close for several months early next year. Most--if not all--of the attraction's problems will be resolved then. Disney has the expertise to fix it. What they don't have is a willingness to spend additional dollars on band aid fixes or larger crews who might be able to whittle away at the problems during overnight shifts.

It would get worse and cost more money with a whole other park. If they don't want to spend the money now it will be worse with a 5th park.

 

[nytimez]

Again, you're confusing capability with willingness.

Disney is certainly capable of maintaining those attractions. They have the technical skills on staff and / or the resources to bring in additional staff if necessary.

What they apparently don't have is the willingness to address those issues in a manner that would satisfy you.

BTMR is scheduled to close for several months early next year. Most--if not all--of the attraction's problems will be resolved then. Disney has the expertise to fix it. What they don't have is a willingness to spend additional dollars on band aid fixes or larger crews who might be able to whittle away at the problems during overnight shifts.

I'm not sure why you want to argue this point so intensely. You don't know that their capability exceeds their willingness. You can surmise it... but you don't actually know that.

The yeti, according to someone I know who works there, may not ever be fixable -- even with an extended downtime. They simply may not have the capability to do so -- it's reached a point now where they had to cease making additional planned enhancements to the yeti because it's simply too dangerous to work on. I was told this by a friend who works there in a management capacity. That's not the final word on it, but the fact is it's a question mark... not a given that they have the capability, but lack the willingness.

I'm not sure why you have to keep pointing out that the supposed willingness doesn't satisfy Figment as if he's the only one who's noticed the problems.

FWIW, on the "Keys to the Kingdom" tour, they tell you that "show" is always supposed to trump "efficiency." So if they have the capability but not the willingness, they're at the very least going against the foundations set by Walt -- because that would be a clear case of "efficiency" trumping "show."

I don't think it's a crime to want those put back into what many of us consider the proper order.

You can accept and defend mediocrity. I prefer to hold Disney parks to the higher standard that they themselves once set.

 

[tjkraz]

I'm not sure why you want to argue this point so intensely. You don't know that their capability exceeds their willingness. You can surmise it... but you don't actually know that.

With regard to the yeti, I will wholeheartedly agree it may not be fixable in its current form. Should have never been installed as-is in the first place. Almost mentioned that in my last post but deleted for sake of brevity.

But that said, let's be honest: Disney could certainly do SOMETHING to correct the current situation with the yeti if they had the willingness. It may cost millions of dollars and require months of downtime but current 20' statue with a strobe light is not the only solution available.

As for the other rudimentary effects that are prone to malfunction, I don't see how we could realistically argue that they are unfixable if they worked in the first place. If manufacturers have gone out of business, parts can be fabricated. If skilled technicians have left the company, they can be replaced.

The question is not one of an ability to fix, it's a question of whether Disney is willing to do what it takes to fix the problem.

More likely the issue is the frequency of breakdowns and the cost of addressing them.

You can accept and defend mediocrity. I prefer to hold Disney parks to the higher standard that they themselves once set.

Exactly where did I "accept and defend mediocrity"??

 

[fannatic]

When there is a 5th park, I'll gladly take an anti-5th park person's place in line.

 

[Figment632]

When there is a 5th park, I'll gladly take an anti-5th park person's place in line.

Won't have to worry about it because it's not happening in the next 25 years.

 

[Brad Bishop]

If you go to the home page of the dis boards. Near the top is a section labled "DIS SITE UPDATES", scroll down a little until you reach "Walt Disney World Never Built". Click on it to go to a very intersting (but lengthy) article on different concepts and ideas that have never come to fruition, but could some day. This one is discuused as well as many others.

Do you have a link to this? I'm not seeing it.

 

[Mike730]

Do you have a link to this? I'm not seeing it.

Is this what your looking for?

http://www.wdwinfo.com/columns/walt-disney-world-never-built.cfm

 

[boscfan]

Right now its just a rumor that dfan and disneysource have heard/read. It would be great if it did come true.

 

[disneysource]

Villain Ville - its theme was supposed to be a surburban setting where the evil characters live in homes. Each is vastly different from one another.

Scar - cave
Stromboli - boat with Monstro nearby
Oswald - Shack
its good - boarding house
hopper - near an ant hill
hugs - daycare
Jafar - ice cream truck

 

[diamondpixienc]

Interesting....

 

[tjkraz]

Does the DIS have a fan fiction board where this thread could be relocated?

Doesn't even qualify as a rumor anymore.

 

[boscfan]

Does the DIS have a fan fiction board where this thread could be relocated?

Doesn't even qualify as a rumor anymore.

Why are you such a pessimist? The ideas seem too planned out to be made up. I bet a lot of people wouldn't have believed the fantasyland expansion rumors.