Disney's Dark Kingdom (Complete list on pg 24)

[Peter Pirate 2]

On the topic of the monorail expansion discussion, I'm sorry but I have to laugh every time its brought up. Other then the "coolness"factor, I think it would be a horrible idea to expand it to all resorts and parks, and basically a trainwreck.

First of all, the cost. Maintaining and building the expansion would be much much more costly than the bus system. Are you willing to pay monorail resort prices to stay at Pop Century? I'm sure not about to. There's no way Disney will expand the monorail system out of the goodness of their hearts, the cost is coming out of every guest's pocket.

Second, logistics. The current monorail system works well (relatively) because its a very simple design. You have a fairly short loop that covers the 3 resorts, MK and the TTC. These locations were built with the monorail in mind, it was not added after the fact. To get to Epcot everyone goes to one place (the TTC) transfers and then you only have ONE line going into Epcot, easy peasy right? Now start thinking about the layouts of the rest of the parks and resorts in WDW and how many different lines and TTC like hubs you would need in order to make the monorail convenient. Can you imagine all the transfers that could be potentially necessary to make it from one resort to one park? Especially because these resorts were not designed for the monorail (or their stations).

Third, monorail issues. If we're talking about anecdotal evidence in here, raise your hand if you've been stuck on a monarail in WDW.. *raises hand*. The nature of a monorail system is NOT flexible. You can't send out another train if one is experiencing issues, you can't bypass a broken train on a track. The bus system allows flexibility that the monorail system just can't. Line up getting long? Send out more buses! Bus broken down? Send another bus for the passengers! Road closed? Take an alternate route!

While Disney's bus system is not perfect, IMO a full monorail system would be a disaster with wait times and transfers being a much bigger issue then we ever see with the buses.

I disagree with you on nearly every point.

1st, the cost ... What do you (as an outsider) care or know about the ramifications of the cost? Walt did it way back when it was far more revolutionary and expensive (%). How could that be a factor now and WHY would anyone other than a member of the BOD want to challenge it on that basis? Further, NO ONE that I have ever seen has mentioned the monorail being connected to Pop Century. It should be connecting the deluxe hotels and DTD.

Second, the logistics ... Seriously? You think Disney couldn't deal with this? A Company that has built theme parks, highways, parking lots, hotels, cruise ships and a town can't handle computer generated logistics of a few monorail miles and stops?

Third, monorail issues ... Again, seriously? Are they more frequent and serious than the bus issues (sharing the road with TOURISTS)?

Lastly, the bus system is far from just "not perfect" ... It absolutely SUCKS. It's bad for the environment, is fraught with incalculable and uncontrollable malfunctions and certainly is not 'magical' in any way, shape or form.

If Disney wants to be the leader of their industry and build in success for years to come (as Walt did - thank goodness for all of us) then these expensive and revolutionary steps will be what is needed to succeed in that regard. Otherwise Universal will just keep gaining ground in the market.

 

[skiingfast]

For Dfan79, did you make up the rumor about Dark Kingdom? If not, where did you read or hear about it?

This rumor has been around for at least a decade.

 

[Figment632]

I hope there is never a 5th gate in WdW!

 

[Dopey420]

I disagree with you on nearly every point.

1st, the cost ... What do you (as an outsider) care or know about the ramifications of the cost? Walt did it way back when it was far more revolutionary and expensive (%). How could that be a factor now and WHY would anyone other than a member of the BOD want to challenge it on that basis? Further, NO ONE that I have ever seen has mentioned the monorail being connected to Pop Century. It should be connecting the deluxe hotels and DTD.

Second, the logistics ... Seriously? You think Disney couldn't deal with this? A Company that has built theme parks, highways, parking lots, hotels, cruise ships and a town can't handle computer generated logistics of a few monorail miles and stops?

Third, monorail issues ... Again, seriously? Are they more frequent and serious than the bus issues (sharing the road with TOURISTS)?

Lastly, the bus system is far from just "not perfect" ... It absolutely SUCKS. It's bad for the environment, is fraught with incalculable and uncontrollable malfunctions and certainly is not 'magical' in any way, shape or form.

If Disney wants to be the leader of their industry and build in success for years to come (as Walt did - thank goodness for all of us) then these expensive and revolutionary steps will be what is needed to succeed in that regard. Otherwise Universal will just keep gaining ground in the market.

This post is proof that logic is lost on many people.

 

[fannatic]

Figment632, I'll take your place in line at the 5th park!

 

[DC7800]

This post is proof that logic is lost on many people.

The post which Peter quoted contains many factual inaccuracies regarding monorail expansion within Walt Disney World, such as that it would be necessary to transfer to travel from resort to theme park (it wouldn't), that more "TTC like" hubs would be required (no need), or that you cannot pass a broken down monorail train along the track (yes, you can, or even operate the other 3-4 trains in 'shuttle mode').

Monorail is a far more efficient mode of transportation for moving people between Disney's parks and resort areas, but it carries a relatively large up front cost in infrastructure (though not nearly as outrageous as many people make it out to be). Buses are generally less efficient, often less flexible, more expensive to operate, and far less appealing (it is a resort setting) but are cheap and quick to implement. When all you care about any more is this quarters financial results - with no real thought given to guest experience, quality, or 'show' - its easier to make the wrong (cheap, easy, lazy) decision and then try to 'spin' it as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

[ASteelersMidget]

I hope there is never a 5th gate in WdW!

I disagree. well sorta. I hope there will be a 5th gate at some point in time. However, ONLY if they can get the other parks in good shape and a full day's worth of time spent there. My other condition is that they would have to keep updating and upgrading the current parks as well.

If they can't do that (and right now i doubt they can) then I agree that i don't want a 5th gate.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

This post is proof that logic is lost on many people.

Expand please.

 

[k5jm]

Even if Disney is not saying anything about a 5th gate, RCID has! In the RCID 10 year plan, they state that within the next 10 years, there will be a 5th gate and 2 smaller parks. They will also be increasing the hotel capacity for the additional park.

http://www.rcid.org/uploads/Future Land Use Element.pdf

 

[nytimez]

Even if Disney is not saying anything about a 5th gate, RCID has! In the RCID 10 year plan, they state that within the next 10 years, there will be a 5th gate and 2 smaller parks. They will also be increasing the hotel capacity for the additional park.

http://www.rcid.org/uploads/Future Land Use Element.pdf

That's a "maximum" -- what can happen at most. Not what will happen.

 

[k5jm]

That's a "maximum" -- what can happen at most. Not what will happen.

It may be maximums, but why plan for that capacity if there is no possibility of that ever happening. In my many years of managing projects and working in City government, you normally do not bloat like that for infrastructure unless you plan on using it.

 

[nytimez]

It may be maximums, but why plan for that capacity if there is no possibility of that ever happening. In my many years of managing projects and working in City government, you normally do not bloat like that for infrastructure unless you plan on using it.

It's a future land use document. There is not "bloating for infrastructure." It is simply a document that explains what land is in the district and what it can be used for in the future. Since the district is owned almost entirely by a company that builds theme parks, it would be remiss not to mention the land available for additional theme parks.

Here is the key line from the report to which you linked:

"There are also several undeveloped sites within the District that are large enough for an entirely new theme park. Although Table 2-1 (Maximum Development 2010-2020) allows for development of one major and two minor theme parks there are no plans under review. Approximately 591 acres would be required for these uses."

This document also lists every area in which all four current theme parks can expand. It does not mean that all four theme parks are expanding or or expanding in those directions and ways. It's simply the potential for that expansion.

 

[anthony2k7]

I hope there is never a 5th gate in WdW!

never?!

I guess your point is about 4 parks filling most peoples length of stay? which is fair enough, although everything else around orlando isnt going to stand still because of this so its going to become an issue anyway.

 

[fannatic]

I read about Reedy Creek's 10 year plan in the Orlando Sentinel in 2009. It said that a major 5th theme park should be built not before 2013, but by 2018. Like mentioned above it also predicted 2 minor parks. The Sentinel thought that the minor parks meant things like water parks or the sports complex.

 

[GDubDIS]

A while ago there was a rumor about a boutique park a la Discovery Cove. Whether this would be a "major" or "minor" park, I think it is a high possibility for a future WDW development. Fairly low upfront cost, extremely high ticket prices, likely high demand and low supply. An executive's dream.

Not saying that this would happen anytime soon though. I totally agree that the RCID expansions plans are potential, and much more unlikely than likely. I think post-2020 a major expansion would be more feasible.

 

[JoshK47]

I would be rather surprised to hear anything about a 5th gate any time soon - though I certainly wouldn't mind if they actually developed the Beastly Kingdom in AK.

I think we're not going to hear much big news until the Fantasyland expansion is completed.

 

[Florida Dreamin']

While I like the idea of a fifth park, I don't expect it to happen. Four parks is more than enough, maybe more expansions would suffice.

 

[fannatic]

The guy who voices Jafar, I believe his name is Jonathon Freeman, recently gave away a secret about a Disney attraction where guests go up against Disney Villains. Is this something for the new Dark Kingdom park? - I'm just speculating.

 

[Padrepride]

Disney is in the business of making money. A fifth park, whether it be big or small, would probably not warrant guests to spend another day on property with DHS and AK being less-than full day experiences. Disney should and, hopefully, will concentrate on making all four parks deep enough to keep guests around for the entire day.

 

[fannatic]

A 5th park would give those with 7-day passes something to do when they are tiring of the other parks. It would also keep people on site, instead of having them go to Sea World or Universal.