Disney's access to rooms beyond the home resort advantage and obligations to owners.

[twinklebug]

This may belong under member services, but since it's more related to the POS I thought I'd try here first.

I have several questions related to an issue we're seeing on AKV rooms coming into "frame" for home resort advantage. These questions are directly related to this issue and I'd appreciate some expert interpretation of the POS and Disney's obligations to owners as well as Disney's own rights.

• We know Disney holds back a percentage of points on all properties to do with as they please. Does Disney have the right to take entire booking categories for a resort off the books with those points? (I'm not talking about for maintenance, but rather for cash sales.)
• Does Disney have the right to take rooms before the 11 month out window? So, we're talking 11 months plus 8 days out?
  
• Does Disney have any obligation to owners to have some of each category available for booking at the 11 month window?

I'm sure there are many more questions, I may post more. Others who are trying to figure out what is going on, please do add your own.

Please don't argue that we're interpreting what we're seeing as rooms being taken by other owners. I will not reply, there's a thread out there that describes the situation and it's simply not the case (and I'm dead tired of explaining it for the thousandth time to both MS CMs and posters here.)

Also note, these issues are not related just to AKV, we're seeing them in other resorts as well, just on smaller scales. Also, certain resort categories of rooms that have more rooms available and so will not show up as anything off is occuring, so we'll never be aware of any issue there.

 

[crvetter]

This may belong under member services, but since it's more related to the POS I thought I'd try here first.

I have several questions related to an issue we're seeing on AKV rooms coming into "frame" for home resort advantage. These questions are directly related to this issue and I'd appreciate some expert interpretation of the POS and Disney's obligations to owners as well as Disney's own rights.

• We know Disney holds back a percentage of points on all properties to do with as they please. Does Disney have the right to take entire booking categories for a resort off the books with those points? (I'm not talking about for maintenance, but rather for cash sales.)
• Does Disney have the right to take rooms before the 11 month out window? So, we're talking 11 months plus 8 days out?
  
• Does Disney have any obligation to owners to have some of each category available for booking at the 11 month window?

I'm sure there are many more questions, I may post more. Others who are trying to figure out what is going on, please do add your own.

Please don't argue that we're not interpreting what we're seeing as rooms being taken by other owners. I will not reply, there's a thread out there that describes the situation and it's simply not the case (and I'm dead tired of explaining it for the thousandth time to both MS CMs and posters here.)

Also note, these issues are not related just to AKV, but we're seeing them in other resorts as well, just on smaller scales and the categories of rooms that have more rooms available will not show up this way, so you'll never be aware of any issue.

The POS is very clear that Disney's (and its successors or who ever they could sell too) points are subject to the exact same booking criteria as all owners. The only exception to this rule is removing rooms for maintenance issues. This means first come and first serve rules and all.

Disney maybe has advantage on the first come first serve rule since they control the booking technicalities.

Now in regards to the missing rooms in categories I've yet to get a real answer from Disney on why it is happening.

 

[zavandor]

Another question for Yvonne I suppose.

BTW I think that DVC shouldn't be able to use aumatic booking mechanisms not available to members. If they auto-book rooms at 11 months sharps before a human could do the same, it's as wrong as if they pre book.

 

[crvetter]

Another question for Yvonne I suppose.

BTW I think that DVC shouldn't be able to use aumatic booking mechanisms not available to members. If they auto-book rooms at 11 months sharps before a human could do the same, it's as wrong as if they pre book.

Agreed.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Does Disney have any obligation to owners to have some of each category available for booking at the 11 month window?

Nope. This one is definitely nowhere in the contracts. No obligation whatsoever. Especially if it involves something like refurb - based on where AKV Club is, all 5 could very well all be out of service same time for a refurb, and reasonably so.

 

[LAX]

Another question for Yvonne I suppose.

BTW I think that DVC shouldn't be able to use aumatic booking mechanisms not available to members. If they auto-book rooms at 11 months sharps before a human could do the same, it's as wrong as if they pre book.

No automatic booking needed. All DVD needs to do is take down the DVC website right at the 11-month window for a brief moment and books whatever it needs during that time. Not legal??

LAX

 

[twinklebug]

Another question for Yvonne I suppose.

BTW I think that DVC shouldn't be able to use aumatic booking mechanisms not available to members. If they auto-book rooms at 11 months sharps before a human could do the same, it's as wrong as if they pre book.

While I agree with you that they shouldn't be able to, we're talking about the difference between what is morally right, verses what they have the right to do (and most likely due to an omission stating otherwise in the POS.)

Nope. This one is definitely nowhere in the contracts. No obligation whatsoever. Especially if it involves something like refurb - based on where AKV Club is, all 5 could very well all be out of service same time for a refurb, and reasonably so.

So this is in reply to the third question I posted, which was almost the same as my first question but phrased more in terms of what is Disney obligated to provide for us. I agree with you, if Disney is in fact removing the inventory for maintenance work (it has to be done sometime) then they can take down entire wings of rooms which in some cases is the entire inventory of that category.

Just tossing a thought out there:
If it turns out to be true that Disney can take whatever inventory they want before owners have a shot at it, then we may start seeing DVD build out resorts with small groups of rooms with enticing features and/or low point costs giving Disney a way to add to the cash room pool available for peak periods with no intention of allowing owners to be able to book them at all for those times. Would they do this right off? Not while active sales are going on.

For example, I'm hearing people rumble about how nice it might be to book the little two person rooms at the new Rivera resort and save on points (Does this mean they are considering buying in? Who knows?) It may turn out that Disney may not allow them a shot at those rooms for peak periods. Essentially, those rooms could become a sales gimmick.

 

[Orsino]

Disney could both follow the same rules as regular owners and have an advantage at booking at 11 months.

We all know that people with more points have higher 'walking power.' Once Disney gets a coveted room, they could just keep extending the reservation. But in Disney's case they aren't truly walking as they don't drop any nights.
Also, Disney could be booking rooms from a computer literally next to the server that handles DVC booking. Close proximity to the server gives them an edge at being the fastest to book popular rooms. Similarly, people living in the same state as the server have an edge over people overseas.

Still stinks though, if that is what they are doing.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Also, Disney could be booking rooms from a computer literally next to the server that handles DVC booking. Close proximity to the server gives them an edge at being the fastest to book popular rooms. Similarly, people living in the same state as the server have an edge over people overseas.

Reservations are on a CDN. Unless they hardwired to the server, they still would have to bounce through the internet, and possibly not directly. Even VPN would slow them down.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Nope. This one is definitely nowhere in the contracts. No obligation whatsoever. Especially if it involves something like refurb - based on where AKV Club is, all 5 could very well all be out of service same time for a refurb, and reasonably so.

There are a couple of scenarios that would allow them to take a room but I know if I've seen in the POS that they otherwise have to follow the same first come first served windows.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

There are a couple of scenarios that would allow them to take a room but I know if I've seen in the POS that they otherwise have to follow the same first come first served windows.

My point was more that there's no guarantee that at least one room in a given booking category has to be available, and, logistically, it would make a specific refurb problematic.

 

[DougEMG]

This sounds a lot like spec renting. Booking off rooms and hoping someone actually wants it later.

 

[JETSDAD]

This sounds a lot like spec renting. Booking off rooms and hoping someone actually wants it later.

Except that it's Disney doing it.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

My point was more that there's no guarantee that at least one room in a given booking category has to be available, and, logistically, it would make a specific refurb problematic.

But what refurb? The rooms were all refurbed 2, maybe 2 1/2 years ago. Even then the rooms weren't all taken out of service. The hotel itself is getting refurbed and the entire things is supposed to be done between August and Fall of 2019. Even if they were blocking that floor in the wing for the few hotels rooms there it wouldn't take over a month when the entire resort is to be completed in 4-4.5 months.

 

[twinklebug]

There are a couple of scenarios that would allow them to take a room but I know if I've seen in the POS that they otherwise have to follow the same first come first served windows.

This is what I thought, but what we see on the reservation system is indicating that Disney has the rooms reserved even further out. For all we know they might have a hold on them at a full 12 months out.... and then they go and toss them up for cash guests?

But what refurb? The rooms were all refurbed 2, maybe 2 1/2 years ago. Even then the rooms weren't all taken out of service. The hotel itself is getting refurbed and the entire things is supposed to be done between August and Fall of 2019. Even if they were blocking that floor in the wing for the few hotels rooms there it wouldn't take over a month when the entire resort is to be completed in 4-4.5 months.

Well, and add onto that... it's still occurring into Jan of 2020. So any claims to the rooms being removed for refurbs are a evading research and telling us the truth about what is going on.

Another question I have is, if what they're doing is violating the POS, does Disney realize what they are doing is wrong? And if so, is anyone within the organization willing to take a stand to fix the problem? Most often with most companies the answer is no as the result is usually not a happy ending for the one standing up.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

This is what I thought, but what we see on the reservation system is indicating that Disney has the rooms reserved even further out. For all we know they might have a hold on them at a full 12 months out.... and then they go and toss them up for cash guests?


Well, and add onto that... it's still occurring into Jan of 2020. So any claims to the rooms being removed for refurbs are a evading research and telling us the truth about what is going on.

Another question I have is, if what they're doing is violating the POS, does Disney realize what they are doing is wrong? And if so, is anyone within the organization willing to take a stand to fix the problem? Most often with most companies the answer is no as the result is usually not a happy ending for the one standing up.

Agreed. My comments were pretty much about how the most common explanation really can't apply. I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't load inventory correctly but it's disappointing that it doesn't seem like it's been fully researched.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I do agree with that. My overall 'thing,' such as it was, is there is no contractual obligation to have any room in a category available at the 11 month window to anyone.

The dodginess of what they've been doing is a somewhat separate thing. It i dodgy, but not because they have a contractual obligation to have units in a category available. It's dodgy because of how they're not available.

 

[marcyleecorgan]

Disney is gonna do what works best for Disney. And they will always find a way to get the lawyers to wrangle whatever they want out of the paperwork.

 

[JenniferYoung44]

How can it be that a refurb is effecting a whole area of the hotel where the value rooms are.... but they’re available for cash??? How do they explain that?

 

[twinklebug]

Disney is gonna do what works best for Disney. And they will always find a way to get the lawyers to wrangle whatever they want out of the paperwork.

I don't necessarily agree with this. The Disney Corporation is certainly not angelic, but I don't think they intentionally break and bend contracts just because they're big and powerful. In a company this size it could be that the right hand has no clue what the left hand is doing.

I would love to say it is a coding error. Heck, that's easy to fix. Instead I feel like there is one rogue person or group behind the strange disappearances/reappearances, trying to make a name for themselves as an earner for the company.