Disneyland Halts All New Magic Key Sales w/ Renewal Info to Come; Plus New CA Resident Ticket Offer

[bambialways4ever]

We went to Knotts for the first time over Spring Break and found it to be a much better value than Disney with more thrill rides. My son is turning 12 so he is finally ready for the bigger coasters. Since we are unable to upgrade to a pass during our Disney trip next week, we are taking our business to Knotts for Halloween and will maybe try Disney for tickets/passes over the Christmas season. Maybe we will try Universal as others have suggested. We have not been to Disney since last summer and haven't experienced the increased crowds and Genie+ so we will see...

On a side note, I got a push notification from Knotts on 5/30 informing me that the passes were going up in price on 5/31, the same day Disney paused their passes. Sure enough, it appears that all Knott's passes have increased by about $20. It's strange that both happened on the same day

I'm not a Knotts hater, but honestly universal is a giant disappointment to me.

 

[brightlined]

I wouldn't say they charge less at the gate. I was just at Cedar Point and a day ticket is $85. They limit the amount of Fastlane sold which Disney is doing the same with Genie+ at WDW. I go all the time. I do my best to avoid weekends and I have no issue with Fastlane.

It's $60-70 online (at the moment), after fees. The real "less at the gate" is the advertised ticket deals and the season pass. (Cedar Point currently has a Summer Season Pass that's $99+fees and includes parking.) Most of those parks just want people inside the gates buying food.

(Quasi-unrelated bit of comedy: I've heard some friends mention that the locals treat Dollywood like it's a food theme park - the food lines are often longer than the ride lines.)

Space Mountain's current issues notwithstanding - I don't think people would tolerate a 60-90 minute wait in a Lightning Lane for any ride at Disneyland. That day at Cedar Point, I think the bulk of the 60+ minute Fast Lane waits were Fast Lane Plus rides, which was like $120 (and Plus sold out in like 90 minutes).

(Quasi-related bit of comedy: at one point, after the rain, Top Thrill Dragster had a longer Fast Lane line than standby.)

And, honestly, I still hate the feeling - especially on a roller coaster - where someone's been waiting in line for 90 minutes and I get to sneak ahead because I spent $100 more. I know it's not cost-effective for them to do so - but I'd vastly prefer limiting capacity (via reservations) and charging more over having two wholly-disproportionate tiers of customers. But I know that's not necessarily a popular opinion.

 

[gelatoni fan]

I'm still not entirely convinced.

The main legal issue with the lawsuit is whether park reservations being sold out counts as a blockout. That's really only an issue with the Dream Key (and the Incredi-pass at WDW). If they were concerned about the overall legal liability, they would have stopped selling all of them last fall.

At the time they yanked Dream and Believe, most of the MK availability for the holidays was gone. It made sense to yank them from sale - especially with the negative PR they were getting.

Personally - as this is about as cynical as I get - I think the main reason for yanking Enchant and Imagine was to maximize summer revenue.

They know that people want to backdoor their way to an Enchant or Imagine pass, and doing this means that guests will have to spend money on the summer and spend money again on the pass in late August or September. It means no "free" entry during this summer - and they'll be blocked out for next summer, too.

The issue is whether Disney can claim there are no blockouts and then arbitrarily have no reservations for that tier of pass. When a reservation is "sold out", it's because Disney chose to not allow that tier of ticket/pass to book them, not because there are actually no reservations available.

I don't know if there's a legal precedent for this but a similar situation could be taken from the airline industry. If your flight is cancelled or your ticket allows free changes, you are allowed to change as long as there are seats available on the flight you are trying to change to. You don't need seats in the specific fare class that you booked. Otherwise, airlines could cancel flights and then just take your money because they could claim that there is no availability on any other flight because your specific fare class is sold out. And if you're not familiar with the terminology, fare class is more specific than cabin type. Y, H, K, M, L, G, V, S, T, B, N, Q, O and E are all fare classes in the economy cabin for certain airlines.

 

[brightlined]

The issue is whether Disney can claim there are no blockouts and then arbitrarily have no reservations for that tier of pass. When a reservation is "sold out", it's because Disney chose to not allow that tier of ticket/pass to book them, not because there are actually no reservations available.

Just noting (mainly for the broader discussion):

The lawsuit is specifically about the Dream Key. All of the registered litigants are Dream Key passholders.

The specific issue in the lawsuit is whether the Dream Key was "falsely advertised" as an "anytime" pass. That's unique to the Dream Key - the other tiers were always advertised to have limited access.

https://www.latimes.com/business/st...ual-pass-program-lawsuit-class-action-request

“Ms. Nielsen reasonably believed and relied upon Disney’s advertisement and promise to mean that, if Disney had capacity at its Anaheim parks, Ms. Nielsen and her fellow Dream Key pass holders would be allowed to make reservations and visit the parks,” the lawsuit says.

There might be an argument that Disney is arbitrarily (and unfairly) limiting access to the parks by an individual tier. If that were being argued here - or if there might be potential liability there - Disney would have every reason to put the entire AP/MK program on hold. (WDW is still selling their lowest-tier pass.)

But this case doesn't specifically address that issue.

(I'm not sure that I'm disagreeing with you at all. Just saying this because I feel like a lot of people are attributing more to the lawsuit than they really can or should.)

 

[longtimedisneylurker]

Personally - as this is about as cynical as I get - I think the main reason for yanking Enchant and Imagine was to maximize summer revenue.

They know that people want to backdoor their way to an Enchant or Imagine pass, and doing this means that guests will have to spend money on the summer and spend money again on the pass in late August or September. It means no "free" entry during this summer - and they'll be blocked out for next summer, too.

Exactly my take when I heard the news.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

(WDW is still selling their lowest-tier pass.)

Their lowest tier is only available to FL residents though.

The passes were on sale for a few short months and were under a brand new program when they came back. I think people have good cause to think it's something up with the lawsuit whether it's just Disney is unsure the way it will go or not.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

Just noting (mainly for the broader discussion):

The lawsuit is specifically about the Dream Key. All of the registered litigants are Dream Key passholders.

The specific issue in the lawsuit is whether the Dream Key was "falsely advertised" as an "anytime" pass. That's unique to the Dream Key - the other tiers were always advertised to have limited access.

https://www.latimes.com/business/st...ual-pass-program-lawsuit-class-action-request



There might be an argument that Disney is arbitrarily (and unfairly) limiting access to the parks by an individual tier. If that were being argued here - or if there might be potential liability there - Disney would have every reason to put the entire AP/MK program on hold. (WDW is still selling their lowest-tier pass.)

But this case doesn't specifically address that issue.

(I'm not sure that I'm disagreeing with you at all. Just saying this because I feel like a lot of people are attributing more to the lawsuit than they really can or should.)

Didn’t Disney specify even for the Dream key that it was based on park reservation availability?

 

[CoachBeard]

A question for those that are down on Disney. I only ask my family doesn't have the emotional attachment to Disney like many of you do. If you're so upset about the state of Disney why not go to Knotts instead. I have heard but great things Knotts.

I agree with you. Or just don’t go for a couple years. But that’s like asking a catholic to start attending a Methodist church. Or something like that. Disney is like a religion to some.

We have universal, magic mountain, knotts, zoos, sea world, Lego land, and many other things to do out here.

 

[SOCALMouseMommy]

That's really why I flinch when people complain about park reservations. People have no idea what it would actually be like if they got rid of them at Disneyland (or WDW).

It would be like it was before. Some crowded days, some light days, with moderates thrown it too.

With reservations, Disney can ensure the parks are almost never “slow.” They are totally packed lately so the reservations aren’t keeping the parks uncrowded. If attendance looks low they will release more reservations to use the Magic Keys to fill them back up.

 

[brightlined]

Their lowest tier is only available to FL residents though.

The passes were on sale for a few short months and were under a brand new program when they came back. I think people have good cause to think it's something up with the lawsuit whether it's just Disney is unsure the way it will go or not.

If they were pulling passes due to potential liability over blockouts and park reservation availability, that one pass would cause the same liability as the Enchant and Imagine Keys would - it has the same features.

I completely understand why people might think it's related. But I also think a lot of people are using the lawsuit as a totem for their broader anger over the park reservation system - I don't think they're entirely tuned into the details.

Didn’t Disney specify even for the Dream key that it was based on park reservation availability?

Yes, and that's what Disney is claiming in response to the lawsuit.

As I understand it, the advertising is the focus. They're essentially claiming that Disney's wording would mean everyday availability - suggesting that park reservations would always be available for that tier.

I haven't seen the actual filing, but using this page as an example:
https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/b...c-offering-with-choice-flexibility-and-value/

Check out the whole page, but take note of the Dream Key box:



"Reservation-based admission to one or both theme parks every day of the year"

Like, today, it's obvious how it works. But would a reasonable person on day one see that wording and believe that they'd be able to go to the park every day, and/or would it be reasonable to expect that most of the holiday season would be unavailable to you if you bought that pass in August.

(The other tiers say "most days of the year", etc.)

If you read that whole page, the notes about limited availability are down in the fine print. "Park reservations are limited, subject to availability, public health orders, and applicable pass blockout dates, and are not guaranteed for any specific dates or park. Additionally, park reservations may not be available on select holidays for certain theme parks." It doesn't specify what the limits are or how they're determined.

Btw - this is me as a layperson speaking. I don't know what the Magic Key purchase page looked like on day one to know if there were more obvious caveats - Disney's CMS is dynamic, so there's nothing in the Web Archive but a broken page.

But this is my understanding of their main argument - that the advertising was misleading and incomplete.

 

[Jrb1979]

When you add in the lawsuit against Cedar Fair and their passes, I'm expecting major changes to how they work when it's all said and done.

 

[TsWade2]

I wish was upset for Disneyland stop selling Magic Key Passes, but I can't. Because due of the lawsuit, it kind've make sense. I hope they change a few things when judge decides the verdict.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But I also think a lot of people are using the lawsuit as a totem for their broader anger over the park reservation system

Whenever I talk I actually don't have an issue with the reservation system (even though I know the frustrations with it) but I know some people truly don't like it. However, in fairness to most people, I don't think they are a lot of people just angry at the reservation system who are using this as an opportunity to lambast it. I think generally speaking with posters here they aren't of that vein, at least I've not gotten that impression. I think that may be reading into people's comments with a bias if you're feeling like a lot of people are just doing that

 

[Mseplover]

Please delete my account

 

[FeistyDisneyMom]

I also have no major issue with the reservation system. As an out of state key holder, I like have guaranteed access to the parks I select ahead of time. However, I hate the 1pm park hopping restriction. I would gladly give up having peace of mind to lose that restriction. If I was a local, I could see myself being frustrated with the reservation system. It would get old if I was constantly checking for reservations.

I am totally with you on that. Reservations changed planning a bit for us out of towners, but the 1pm park hop time is so frustrating!

On the flip side, it does sound like simply checking for res the night before you can get them for pretty much any park any day if you have a MK, its just even harder to plan ahead sometimes because you know you have to have a reservation in order to make dining and package plans. So - reservations are typically wide open availability the first few weeks they are available, but then tend to shrink/sell out for a while, and then availability pops up as people cancel 24-48 hrs ahead of time to avoid the penalty. Since many people are trying to make dining and package reservations at the 60 mark because those are also selling out, it creates a very stressful and unpleasant situation.

 

[foolish_mortals]

I love the rides at Knott’s but you HAVE to have Fastlane to ride anything after the first 30 minutes of the park being open. A 3hr wait for Ghostrider and 2hrs for Silver Bullet at 10am is ridiculous.

The lines are long because they are not efficient. Each coaster has at most 2 trains and they always hold one at the station. They don’t run their coasters like Disneyland with checkpoints that allow more than one train to be running the track at the same time.

I live in San Diego and near the Safari Park and Zoo but they close at dusk. Which makes it not really viable as a late afternoon or evening activity.

So while Disneyland isn’t great at least there aren’t 2+hr waits on all their E ticket rides and are open late making it a fund date spot.

 

[CeCe0906]

I am totally with you on that. Reservations changed planning a bit for us out of towners, but the 1pm park hop time is so frustrating!

On the flip side, it does sound like simply checking for res the night before you can get them for pretty much any park any day if you have a MK, its just even harder to plan ahead sometimes because you know you have to have a reservation in order to make dining and package plans. So - reservations are typically wide open availability the first few weeks they are available, but then tend to shrink/sell out for a while, and then availability pops up as people cancel 24-48 hrs ahead of time to avoid the penalty. Since many people are trying to make dining and package reservations at the 60 mark because those are also selling out, it creates a very stressful and unpleasant situation.

Until I started reading about the parks denying entry, it never dawned on me that Disney would sell more tickets for the day more than their capacity.

I can't imagine requesting time off work, buying tickets, flying in reserving hotel, and then...sorry cant do Disney. Or people overseas?

So, while I get frustration from locals who like the spontaneity of just dropping in for a couple of hours, I hope the reservation system stays, for us out of towners Park hopping limits can go though.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

We are out of state and DVC. We like the reservation system that prevents locals to come to the parks like they would to a local mall. We usually stay on property for 7-10 days and have no problems getting a reservation the day before. I understand why people hate the new system. it’s not perfect but I think it’s a good middle ground.

 

[James33]

It would be like it was before. Some crowded days, some light days, with moderates thrown it too.

With reservations, Disney can ensure the parks are almost never “slow.” They are totally packed lately so the reservations aren’t keeping the parks uncrowded. If attendance looks low they will release more reservations to use the Magic Keys to fill them back up.

We might be painting a rosier picture than reality. if Disneyland had 10,000 reservations a day for a full week, thats 70,000 guests. If one of those days became 5,000, then some other day will become 15,000 which is worse than the worst days with reservations. That’s what I recall on the bad days before reservations, which seemed worst than now. What I don‘t recall were light days at Disneyland because even weekdays on a school day got pretty busy.

Now they can cap the capacity, but now people will be turned away at the door, which would be even worse.

So I don’t think reservations are that bad, allowing me to know which days are good to go, prevent some people from going on the days I’m going, and not have to worry about being turned away after getting there.

That said, this is assuming a constant number of visits from guests. I do admit one issue with reservations is that scarcity drives up demand. When I had the FlexPass with MaxPass (oh those were the days), I ended up going to the park more often just because I’m constantly booking days and was consistent in how often I went because reservation felt like commitments. If there were no reservations, we might not have had as much urgency to plan ahead and end up being more spontaneous, which might have resulted in us going less, knowing we can just swing by any time. Or maybe not. Who knows? One thing we do know is that the attendance spikes can be unpredictable and it can be worse than now, making for potentially more miserable days.

 

[SOCALMouseMommy]

We might be painting a rosier picture than reality. if Disneyland had 10,000 reservations a day for a full week, thats 70,000 guests. If one of those days became 5,000, then some other day will become 15,000 which is worse than the worst days with reservations. That’s what I recall on the bad days before reservations, which seemed worst than now. What I don‘t recall were light days at Disneyland because even weekdays on a school day got pretty busy.

Now they can cap the capacity, but now people will be turned away at the door, which would be even worse.

So I don’t think reservations are that bad, allowing me to know which days are good to go, prevent some people from going on the days I’m going, and not have to worry about being turned away after getting there.

That said, this is assuming a constant number of visits from guests. I do admit one issue with reservations is that scarcity drives up demand. When I had the FlexPass with MaxPass (oh those were the days), I ended up going to the park more often just because I’m constantly booking days and was consistent in how often I went because reservation felt like commitments. If there were no reservations, we might not have had as much urgency to plan ahead and end up being more spontaneous, which might have resulted in us going less, knowing we can just swing by any time. Or maybe not. Who knows? One thing we do know is that the attendance spikes can be unpredictable and it can be worse than now, making for potentially more miserable days.

I mean, Disneyland operated without reservations for more than 60 years and outside of capacity closures a few times a year (like between Christmas and New Year’s for example) things were mostly fine.

Allowing free park hopping (as opposed to restricting it to 1pm) allowed crowds to naturally self correct and spread out better between the two parks.

Right now, a “sold out” day can be crowded or CRAZY CROWDED… the numbers obviously fluctuate.

Summer of 2019 was incredible for the consistently low crowds throughout the summer. Also, when I started going regularly in 2017 mid-week during the school year was almost always slow. Not now.