Disney World is BROKEN!

[themommy]

I'll take Disney in any way shape or form. I wanna go back right now!

 

[MrInfinity]

Interesting. I really don't agree w you, but hey that makes us all different. I've gone to WDW as a kid, as a teen, and now as an adult w kids of my own. I don't think the experience has gotten worse. I'd say it's gotten better. I don't seem to have the trouble you do getting on rides. On a 6-day trip, we have no problem riding everything at every park, most things multiple times, and taking in most of the shows.

I have found parades to be mega-annoying because the pushing and shoving is atrocious. Ppl seem to forget decency and will cut you off in an instant when it comes to getting their kid (read: them) a spot. Cast members will scold them to their face, they'll back up, then start scooting in again as soon as they turn. This is just human nature I guess.

Other than the parades, I've found everything about the parks to be wonderful.

Crowds are just as bad at every other "attraction style thing" one might do. Like the local big-city museums I live by-- it's a mob getting in and waits everywhere. Some exhibits will be closed or broken. Wisconsin Dells is a popular destination for folks in the Midwest -- but it's just as crowded and lacks the ultra-coolness that Disney has. Even going to the Saint Louis Arch was an afternoon of line-waiting. That's just the way it is. You want to do something cool like ride Everest -- well so does everyone else so wait your turn and enjoy.

Maybe approach it more like a vacation and less like a task force, I dunno. Sup to you! But hopefully you find a way to have fun at Disney, cuz I'm guessing you'll be back and it would suck to keep paying mega thousands of dollars to keep going yet assert you don't enjoy it.

Going in May. Yes there will be lines. Still can't wait!

 

[sharadoc]

I think this goes to my earlier point, and you stated it perfectly. Repeat visitors, and those who have "done it all" can easily find ways to have a great time, even if it means spending only 4 hours at a park. Rent a speed boat. Play golf. Ride horses. Swim at the pool. Lots of stuff to do. But trying to convince first-time visitors to do this is next to impossible. ....

We have found the balance that works for our family. However, all the uncertainly means that we won't be back any time soon which is kinda sad because we usually go twice a year on average.

But, like others have stated, we feel Disney is a reasonably priced vacation for everything that we get to do. Our typical vacation includes a large chunk of time enjoying our resort amenities and pool/activities; miniature golf; eating or spending time at resort entertainment like Boardwalk, Beach/Yacht Club, Contemporary. Instead of eating in a park, we love eating at resort restaurants. We like to watch fireworks and the Electrical Water Pageant from the Fort Wilderness beach, it's paradise!

Theoretically, FP+ could work out to be a good thing. It is forcing people to do lots of different attractions and activities, rather than just focusing on the big 2 or 3 of every park. We have looked at every park and figured that we could survive on the 3 FP+ in every park except MK. But, if we go to the park on multiple days, we can handle it. That means that we don't ride the same thing on every visit, maybe Sunday is Space Mountain and Thursday is Big Thunder Mountain RR, not both on both days. The fact that it costs a little more than $20 to add the Water Parks option to a park hopper is also a really good thing. A water park for a couple hours is fun, you don't have to do a whole day. You can just go there in the middle of the day instead of one of the big theme parks. One day we just did the wave pool and lazy river and got our money's worth when it was only $20.

I think that restriction on one time per ride is what frustrates people. It's a big change, and it's not something that people want to accept. I understand the annoyance of totally having to change how you vacation. We used to get a GAC for our son who was only truly happy at Disney World. Now, with the DAS and those changes, we had so much more stress and frustration to the point where he asked to go home this past December trip. But we can't go back to the way it was, so to avoid problems, we just won't go back until everything is more settled.

When we go back, we'll go for more days and in the summer. We probably won't hit a park until dinner time and after. We'll do some FP+ in advance, but we'll make sure we pick the right resort and spend time doing a lot of activities and taking advantage of everything that Disney World has to offer.

Overall, I think Disney World is still okay, I think in many ways we need to change the way we view it. We had a really good run of knowing the system, knowing every trick, getting the most of every day. Now, we're learning a whole new system and eventually it will be fine.

 

[River Country]

Back to the OP
Disney is not Broken. IMHO its better than ever. New rides restaurants lands and characters and experiences. New Resorts and destinations. My First trip was in 1986 and I have been going back since.

Magic? You wannna talk magic? How about the look on my DD (7) face when we surprise her with a disney trip for her bday when we pick her up from school or when she met Elsa and Anna (yes i waited 2 hours) but its for her as much as it is for me and my wife. If you dont want to lan your trip or dont want lines and crowds then dont go to WDW go to the beach or an Island somewhere.

The food (ok not all of it) the resorts the rides nowhere else in the world can you experience what you can at WDW. But go to a beach in the Caribbean and let me know if you can tell whether you are in St Thomas or St Lucia bet you cant cause its BEACH

 

[KatieCharlotte]

Excellent point. I think that one thing MM+/FP+ has done (for the first time for many) is give a glimpse at the "man behind the curtain", so to speak. And, it's an uncomfortable view for many to see the raw corporate side of the company known for selling magic and pixie dust.

That's it exactly. I'm not generally naïve about business motivations, but I had a blind spot when it came to Disney parks. Everything seemed design entirely around my happiness, including FP. My DD scraped her knee and a CM was instantly making her smile. We had something taken from our stroller and a CM instantly replaced it with something even better. It was magic.

Even when I thought of Disney as a business, I saw it as one of the few that understood customer service. Last year, I read an article in a travel magazine about the two different approaches to profit and customer service, contrasting Southwest and Spirit, and speculating which would be more successful long-term. When I read the article, I placed Disney firmly in the category of "happy, loyal customers are essential."

It's really not just FP+. It's hearing about the motivation behind the curtain, and about stressed out CMs who can't find the magic, inconsistent customer service for technological glitches, lack of information, the idea that Disney mgmt. probably would prefer guests like me not return because we don't spend enough, misleading ads, etc. It's not that Disney is a terrible company. It's just that I placed them on a pedestal.

 

[DebbieB]

Yeah, I don't think it's anything like unanimous upset at the Dis and the other two Disney boards I (sort of) frequent are pretty mellow right now. But when you're talking the number of people who go to Disney, a small percentage can still be a pretty big number of people!

It's not unanimous. Plenty of people here have said they like it, including myself.

 

[schrammalot]

Which means you are happy with 3 rides a day without standing in long lines. Surely you realize that many folks would be very unhappy with that number.

The other option is that you were there when FP wasn't needed at all, so any discussion about the awesomeness/suckiness of FP in your opinion, based on that visit, are exceedingly meaningless.

Jason

Glad to know my opinions are meaningless to you, Jason.

If you time it right and don't go on the 4th of July, you can actually do it. It's not impossible. We didn't show up at rope drop and set our FP+ for the afternoon. The longest SB wait we had was half an hour at Test Track at around noon.

But hey, I'll stop giving my opinion if it's meaningless.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Glad to know my opinions are meaningless to you, Jason. If you time it right and don't go on the 4th of July, you can actually do it. It's not impossible. We didn't show up at rope drop and set our FP+ for the afternoon. The longest SB wait we had was half an hour at Test Track at around noon. But hey, I'll stop giving my opinion if it's meaningless.

Hey! It's not meaningless to me! Why is Jason the only one with a vote on the meaningfulness of your opinion?

I am waiting to form my opinion until I am there next week, but so far I have heard great things from the two people in my office that have been in the past two months. Certainly neither of them had trouble and I don't expect to.

Loving the experience application so far. Can't close it out!

 

[Brian Noble]

where it can be hard for many to reconcile "the Walt's Disney" with the "Rasulo Corporate Disney" of - "MM+ is designed to get an extra 10-11% more money out of you."

Those of us who've read some of the background---Neil Gabler's excellent Walt biography, or the even more revealing "Married to the Mouse" understand that there is nothing to reconcile. The company has always worked this way.

My favorite example is from Married to the Mouse. There is written evidence that Walt knew that the Reedy Creek Improvement District would never have permanent residents before the company screened the "Florida Project" film, and almost certainly before Walt even recorded it. This was the film that introduced EPCOT as the "city of tomorrow", and was one of the biggest reasons Disney was given its very own private government to play with.

Here is the passage from that book:

There was still the problem of who would govern the municipalities, of how the Disney landowner could permit popular government and not be bound by it. The law was constraining, explained the attorney. They could name the initial members of the municipal governing boards, possibly for as long as four years, but after that residents would elect the board. He cautioned against a property qualification for voting, an idea that Disney executives had discussed, saying it was unconstitutional.

Walt's response to the memo clearly indicates his thinking on these issues. He wrote comments directly on the memo, which was found in his desk when he died. Every place where Helliwell referred to the problem of "permanent residents," Walt crossed it out and wrote "temporary residents/tourists." Despite his fanciful mind, he clearly grasped the political reality---if people lived there, they could vote there, undermining the company's political control. And where the memo explained that, legally, their private government could not exercise planning and zoning powers unless it was popularly elected, Walt switched from lead pencil to red grease pencil, writing "NO" in inch-high letters at the margin. The message, extremely important for later events, seems clear: Walt wanted no permanent residents in his model community.

That memo was dated May 23rd, 1966. Walt recorded the "Florida Project" film on October 27, 1966. I suppose there is no definitive proof that he read and annotated the memo before recording the film, but it sure seems unlikely, doesn't it?

 

[themommy]

Thought I would just toss out some happy pills for people here!

 

[Brian Noble]

It's not unanimous.

I believe that's what shalom is saying.

 

[shalom]

I believe that's what shalom is saying.

Yep.

 

[rastuso]

Glad to know my opinions are meaningless to you, Jason.

If you time it right and don't go on the 4th of July, you can actually do it. It's not impossible. We didn't show up at rope drop and set our FP+ for the afternoon. The longest SB wait we had was half an hour at Test Track at around noon.

But hey, I'll stop giving my opinion if it's meaningless.

I never go on holidays (well, I did, once, many years ago). I'm well aware of the tricks of the trade. But your comments based on a mid January trip are meaningless to anyone not going during quite possibly the slowest time of the year.

I would hate someone with a Spring Break trip scheduled to read your comments and think "great, it sounds like our trip is going to be pretty flawless afterall".

The number of people who keep posting how wonderful FP+ is, based on double dipping October trips, or super cold, light crowd January is getting comical. Myself, and the other members of the He-man Woman and FP+ Haters Club (that does include that mom2k woman too, she seems cool), will be eating crow in April if there still exists an endless stream of people saying their trip was great because of the FP+ changes. I know many people think complaining means you're negative. In my world complaining means you don't feel you are getting the value you expected, and want to change that.

As another poster said, nothing that the pro FP+ crowd say is great about FP+ wasn't doable with FP- (especially before return time enforcement). Well, I guess maybe getting Toy Story and Soarin' FPs without getting to RD, but besides those ridiculous extremes, anyone could visit WDW, show up late, get a few FPs to use later in the day, stroll around enjoying the "magic", and not caring about lines for rides. Maybe you spend a bit less time in some lines, but you aren't spending that extra time in shorter lines elsewhere, so again, it is a zero sum game.

FP+ didn't all of a sudden make these things possible. It did, however, make EVERYONE have to be happy with such a day, not just those with APs, who live a few miles away, or have fairly unlimited disposable income and vacation time, who have an entirely different set of expectations for a trip to WDW that are not shared by the vast majority of WDW visitors, or DISers.

Jason

 

[rebbyparker]

I never go on holidays (well, I did, once, many years ago). I'm well aware of the tricks of the trade. But your comments based on a mid January trip are meaningless to anyone not going during quite possibly the slowest time of the year.

I would hate someone with a Spring Break trip scheduled to read your comments and think "great, it sounds like our trip is going to be pretty flawless afterall".

The number of people who keep posting how wonderful FP+ is, based on double dipping October trips, or super cold, light crowd January is getting comical. Myself, and the other members of the He-man Woman and FP+ Haters Club (that does include that mom2k woman too, she seems cool), will be eating crow in April if there still exists an endless stream of people saying their trip was great because of the FP+ changes. I know many people think complaining means you're negative. In my world complaining means you don't feel you are getting the value you expected, and want to change that.

As another poster said, nothing that the pro FP+ crowd say is great about FP+ wasn't doable with FP- (especially before return time enforcement). Well, I guess maybe getting Toy Story and Soarin' FPs without getting to RD, but besides those ridiculous extremes, anyone could visit WDW, show up late, get a few FPs to use later in the day, stroll around enjoying the "magic", and not caring about lines for rides. Maybe you spend a bit less time in some lines, but you aren't spending that extra time in shorter lines elsewhere, so again, it is a zero sum game.

FP+ didn't all of a sudden make these things possible. It did, however, make EVERYONE have to be happy with such a day, not just those with APs, who live a few miles away, or have fairly unlimited disposable income and vacation time, who have an entirely different set of expectations for a trip to WDW that are not shared by the vast majority of WDW visitors, or DISers.

Jason

Great post!

 

[SEA333]

I've been to DW over 10 times in my 40+ years and the experience just gets worse each year. I really wanted to believe that each bad visit was just an anomaly...maybe bad luck, or the wrong time of year, but I've learned that it doesn't really matter when you go, the Disney Magic is long gone.

The root of all the problems are the crowds, or more specifically the over demand/ under supply imbalance related to their most popular attractions. Even in the "slow" months ( I just got back yesterday), the parks are so crowded you are forced into full Disney combat mode to make sure you have a " fun" time at the park. You all know what that is... Get there at rope drop, get your fast passes, plan your route, make ur adrs months in advance, eat early, ride while others are watching parades. It's INSANITY! But not doing all that is even more insane because you'll be stuck in lines all day and maybe even miss riding certain attractions all together if you don't follow THE plan. There has got to be a better way. A way for an average family to have a fun, relaxing, enjoyable time at a DW park without having to read the Disboards for a month, make adrs months in advance, get up at 6am to beat rope drop, or need a precise touring plan to stay one step ahead of the masses all day long.

I think it's time for a rebellion. It's time we let disney know that their parks are broken. That the experience has lost a lot of its fun. THat we are tired of them allowing more people into the parks then their attractions and restaurants can comfortably accommodate. That we expect some drastic rethinking of what sort of experience they are attempting to provide.

To address these problems won't be easy or cheap, and disney has absolutely no incentive to even try unless we make our displeasure known. So if you too found your disney vacation more of a stresscation than a vacation, speak up, let us know what you think could be done to make things better.

I'll start with my 2 cents.

1. In busy periods, far fewer people should be let in. It's that simple. Just because they are legally allowed to jam a zillion people into the park, doesn't mean they should.

2. Even in slower periods, you're still stuck in crazy long lines for the main rides or forced to get there at rope drop to ensure fast passes. This has to end. How? I don't know, but I'm sure they could try something. Maybe they change park pricing to discourage multiple rides on popular rides. How about $60 park admission, but $10 extra for each ride on splash mountain, space mntn, soarin, test track, tot, and any other super popular ride. Or maybe they offer fast passes only to those who pay like at universal, or maybe they build a second soarin, test track, etc to cut lines down.

These might all be lousy ideas, but the point is, there has to be a good idea out there somewhere. It's time disney started trying harder to find it.

Please add to this post with your comments/ideas if you too would like to see change. Dis execs do read these boards and will notice this thread if it gets big enough.

No way do i have time to read through 365 posts, but I will say that my family has been there twice and would like to go back again because neither time we have been there has it been as crazy as you describe. I read these boards for years before actually getting to the point where 1. We could afford to go, and 2. DH agreed I was slightly terrified the first time we walked into MK for another two reasons:

1. Being trampled in a crazy crowd or being stuck in a line for 2 1/2 hours or picking the wrong CS to have lunch.

2. Breaking any of the "DIS-Laws of conduct presented by the posters here on this board". I walked in a straight line, made sure not to cross in front of a stroller or hit anyone with mine, waited for DH and DS6 to get back from the bathroom before getting into the Peter Pan line, and made sure we all had our food before finding a table.

You know what??!! None of it mattered! We didn't do fastpass the first time and were still super happy with all we did and saw. I hadn't been to DW since the white plates were being placed on the Epcot "ball" when it was still under construction (I was in 1st grade!), but I still remembered Dumbo, Peter Pan, Snow White, It's a Small Word, Haunted Mansion, Hall of Presidents, etc and made sure we hit those. Everything else was a bonus, and there was a LOT of everything else, culminating with Wishes - which made me cry because I was so emotional just to BE ABLE to share that moment with my kiddos.

The 2nd time, we did ADR's and FP+, and got to the parks early and I even had a color-coded spreadsheet that I brought with me to keep it all straight. We even had a bonus FP for BOG, where we were the very first family in the Beast's castle on Nov. 17, 2013. Pretty awesome! We were still at the point where we could double-dip for reg FP, but we did not. My boys' favorite thing of the entire trip was Star Tours in DHS, and although we had a FP+ for about 9:45am, they went back and rode that ride about 6 more times, not waiting more than 15 minutes per time. The longest wait we had for anything was maybe....15-20 minutes? Except for our ADR for Ohana. That was about 45 minutes. And we were starving. And it was our first night. at 8:05pm. And we were starving. And excited to be in WDW. (and did I mention that we were starving??!! LOL)

So, for anyone to say a blanket statement that DW is ruined, that makes me sad. Maybe it isn't DW that is ruined....maybe it is ruined because a fairly small percentage of people cannot stand the thought of not planning every second of their vacation and Must See EVerything or Bust that are ruining it....

We certainly seemed to have a pretty good time both times!

 

[clsteve]

Those of us who've read some of the background---Neil Gabler's excellent Walt biography, or the even more revealing "Married to the Mouse" understand that there is nothing to reconcile. The company has always worked this way.

My favorite example is from Married to the Mouse. There is written evidence that Walt knew that the Reedy Creek Improvement District would never have permanent residents before the company screened the "Florida Project" film, and almost certainly before Walt even recorded it. This was the film that introduced EPCOT as the "city of tomorrow", and was one of the biggest reasons Disney was given its very own private government to play with.

Here is the passage from that book:



That memo was dated May 23rd, 1966. Walt recorded the "Florida Project" film on October 27, 1966. I suppose there is no definitive proof that he read and annotated the memo before recording the film, but it sure seems unlikely, doesn't it?

I understand that - you understand that - many others understand that. However, the "Walt's Disney" I was referring to is the one in the minds of many: evidenced by the numerous "this is not "Walt's Disney..!!!" or "Walt would be spinning in his Grave...!!!" comments. Disney (The Company) have been masters at maintaining and protecting this "Vaseline on the lens" viewpoint, for a very long time.

 

[quandrea]

No way do i have time to read through 365 posts, but I will say that my family has been there twice and would like to go back again because neither time we have been there has it been as crazy as you describe. I read these boards for years before actually getting to the point where 1. We could afford to go, and 2. DH agreed I was slightly terrified the first time we walked into MK for another two reasons:

1. Being trampled in a crazy crowd or being stuck in a line for 2 1/2 hours or picking the wrong CS to have lunch.

2. Breaking any of the "DIS-Laws of conduct presented by the posters here on this board". I walked in a straight line, made sure not to cross in front of a stroller or hit anyone with mine, waited for DH and DS6 to get back from the bathroom before getting into the Peter Pan line, and made sure we all had our food before finding a table.

You know what??!! None of it mattered! We didn't do fastpass the first time and were still super happy with all we did and saw. I hadn't been to DW since the white plates were being placed on the Epcot "ball" when it was still under construction (I was in 1st grade!), but I still remembered Dumbo, Peter Pan, Snow White, It's a Small Word, Haunted Mansion, Hall of Presidents, etc and made sure we hit those. Everything else was a bonus, and there was a LOT of everything else, culminating with Wishes - which made me cry because I was so emotional just to BE ABLE to share that moment with my kiddos.

The 2nd time, we did ADR's and FP+, and got to the parks early and I even had a color-coded spreadsheet that I brought with me to keep it all straight. We even had a bonus FP for BOG, where we were the very first family in the Beast's castle on Nov. 17, 2013. Pretty awesome! We were still at the point where we could double-dip for reg FP, but we did not. My boys' favorite thing of the entire trip was Star Tours in DHS, and although we had a FP+ for about 9:45am, they went back and rode that ride about 6 more times, not waiting more than 15 minutes per time. The longest wait we had for anything was maybe....15-20 minutes? Except for our ADR for Ohana. That was about 45 minutes. And we were starving. And it was our first night. at 8:05pm. And we were starving. And excited to be in WDW. (and did I mention that we were starving??!! LOL)

So, for anyone to say a blanket statement that DW is ruined, that makes me sad. Maybe it isn't DW that is ruined....maybe it is ruined because a fairly small percentage of people cannot stand the thought of not planning every second of their vacation and Must See EVerything or Bust that are ruining it....

We certainly seemed to have a pretty good time both times!

Beautiful. Everything in life is about attitude.

 

[shalom]

FP+ didn't all of a sudden make these things possible. It did, however, make EVERYONE have to be happy with such a day, not just those with APs, who live a few miles away, or have fairly unlimited disposable income and vacation time, who have an entirely different set of expectations for a trip to WDW that are not shared by the vast majority of WDW visitors, or DISers.

I have my doubts that the vast majority of WDW visitors share the same set of expectations for a trip to WDW as the average DISer. I also question your assumption that only those who live nearby, with APs and lots of time and money are okay with a Disney day that isn't ride centric and commando. Disney has to have known that limiting FPs would piss off a lot of people, because losing a freebie always pisses off people. But they're doing it anyhow.

So just the fact that Disney is limiting FP+ the way it has indicates that most people going to WDW have not being using the FP system that way.

 

[Viva Las Disney]

we are surrounded by other people who are right there with us, mainlining pixie dust like it was weak coffee.

Great line, and sadly true.

No way do i have time to read through 365 posts, but I will say that my family has been there twice and would like to go back again because neither time we have been there has it been as crazy as you describe. I read these boards for years before actually getting to the point where 1. We could afford to go, and 2. DH agreed I was slightly terrified the first time we walked into MK for another two reasons:

1. Being trampled in a crazy crowd or being stuck in a line for 2 1/2 hours or picking the wrong CS to have lunch.

2. Breaking any of the "DIS-Laws of conduct presented by the posters here on this board". I walked in a straight line, made sure not to cross in front of a stroller or hit anyone with mine, waited for DH and DS6 to get back from the bathroom before getting into the Peter Pan line, and made sure we all had our food before finding a table.

You know what??!! None of it mattered! We didn't do fastpass the first time and were still super happy with all we did and saw. I hadn't been to DW since the white plates were being placed on the Epcot "ball" when it was still under construction (I was in 1st grade!), but I still remembered Dumbo, Peter Pan, Snow White, It's a Small Word, Haunted Mansion, Hall of Presidents, etc and made sure we hit those. Everything else was a bonus, and there was a LOT of everything else, culminating with Wishes - which made me cry because I was so emotional just to BE ABLE to share that moment with my kiddos.

The 2nd time, we did ADR's and FP+, and got to the parks early and I even had a color-coded spreadsheet that I brought with me to keep it all straight. We even had a bonus FP for BOG, where we were the very first family in the Beast's castle on Nov. 17, 2013. Pretty awesome! We were still at the point where we could double-dip for reg FP, but we did not. My boys' favorite thing of the entire trip was Star Tours in DHS, and although we had a FP+ for about 9:45am, they went back and rode that ride about 6 more times, not waiting more than 15 minutes per time. The longest wait we had for anything was maybe....15-20 minutes? Except for our ADR for Ohana. That was about 45 minutes. And we were starving. And it was our first night. at 8:05pm. And we were starving. And excited to be in WDW. (and did I mention that we were starving??!! LOL)

So, for anyone to say a blanket statement that DW is ruined, that makes me sad. Maybe it isn't DW that is ruined....maybe it is ruined because a fairly small percentage of people cannot stand the thought of not planning every second of their vacation and Must See EVerything or Bust that are ruining it....

We certainly seemed to have a pretty good time both times!

I love the DIS, I took my first WDW trip last year and it was an invaluable source of information and tips, it also had me so stressed out prior to my vacation I was second guessing whether a WDW vacation was a good use of my money and time.

Ironically I think the negativity of the DIS probably contributed to me having such a great time, I was expecting hour long lines at every ride so a 10-15 minute wait seemed like nothing. I had accepted I wouldn't get to do everything because of the crowds but I ended up getting to everything I wanted, most things multiple times. I was expecting shoulder to shoulder people and gridlock in the pathways and I was expecting thousand strong Brazilian tour groups to rough me up but 99.9% of the people I ran into were polite and when I did get bumped into I usually got a polite excuse me.

My trip was far from perfect, I overdid it and was exhausted and sick by day 3, the DDP cost me more than OOP, I had seen dozens of tantrums and decided WDW should ban kids and be 18 and over by day 6 , etc, but honestly I can't wait to go again.