Disney World is BROKEN!

[btk2333]

This is a huge issue, IMO. It's pretty sad that DCA has more attractions in its 1 park than epcot/DHS combined...

It's pretty clear that TDA's focus is on attractions and that TDO's is definitely not.

While DLR has put a ton of money into DCA, don't forget they bombed the DCA opening and DCA was probably the worst of the US Disney parks. That's why DCA got all of the love recently.

Now, IMO DAK is the worst US Disney park, causing Disney to put money into Avatarland and an evening show.

I would imagine DHS would be next (star wars? east coast carsland?). We will see. However, your statement is entirely relative to what year you're evaluating the parks.

 

[Coffee50]

TDA = Team Disney Anaheim
TDO = Team Disney Orlando

I'm curious if people really consider the Disneyland resort, or any of the other Disney resorts........as an alternative.

 

[Angel Ariel]

However, your statement is entirely relative to what year you're evaluating the parks.

I'm talking about the choices they've made recently. DLR got $1 billion, and they built new attractions and revitalized a park.

WDW took the same money (and then more) and put it towards an IT/data collection initiative. While the non-MK parks are nowhere as bad as what DCA was when it opened, they are still in need of a lot of love - yet that wasn't a focus for WDW.

It's pretty telling, to me, that WDW isn't as focused on attractions when the 2 parks in CA have almost as many attractions as the 4 in FL, with significantly less space to expand than the ones in FL have.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I'm curious if people really consider the Disneyland resort, or any of the other Disney resorts........as an alternative.

DLR is absolutely an alternative for us. The only thing that is keeping us from heading that way is the 5+ hr flight with an 18 month old...not my idea of fun (both the experience and the cost )

 

[shalom]

I'm curious if people really consider the Disneyland resort, or any of the other Disney resorts........as an alternative.

There's a thread that got moved to the Theme Park Community board asking that question, and there were people who said they were doing DL instead of WDW this year and/or for some time to come. Which makes sense to me. FP+ is probably hardest on people who really focus on rides, and DL has historically been the better rides park of the two US Disney resorts.

 

[btk2333]

I'm talking about the choices they've made recently. DLR got $1 billion, and they built new attractions and revitalized a park.

WDW took the same money (and then more) and put it towards an IT/data collection initiative. While the non-MK parks are nowhere as bad as what DCA was when it opened, they are still in need of a lot of love - yet that wasn't a focus for WDW.

It's pretty telling, to me, that WDW isn't as focused on attractions when the 2 parks in CA have almost as many attractions as the 4 in FL, with significantly less space to expand than the ones in FL have.

During the time frame DLR was opening Cars Land, WDW built the Fantasyland Expansion (which is still in the process of opening).

I don't know what DLR has been in the process of opening this year, if anything; however, that would be a better comparison of money usage.

Additionally, WDW is putting money into Avatarland now- it may not be as popular but it is money.

I think WDW made a mistake opening a fourth park because it has made it very difficult to keep each park viable as full day parks (IMO neither DHS nor DAK are right now) but they do have projects going too.

 

[Mad Hattered]

I'm curious if people really consider the Disneyland resort, or any of the other Disney resorts........as an alternative.

Yes!

 

[Coffee50]

During the time frame DLR was opening Cars Land, WDW built the Fantasyland Expansion (which is still in the process of opening).

I don't know what DLR has been in the process of opening this year, if anything; however, that would be a better comparison of money usage.

Additionally, WDW is putting money into Avatarland now- it may not be as popular but it is money.

I think WDW made a mistake opening a fourth park because it has made it very difficult to keep each park viable as full day parks (IMO neither DHS nor DAK are right now) but they do have projects going too.

On the customer survey, they were asking questions about Marvel & Star Wars, but this was months ago), but there's nothing scheduled to open this year.

 

[Angel Ariel]

During the time frame DLR was opening Cars Land, WDW built the Fantasyland Expansion (which is still in the process of opening).

The revitalization of DCA did so much more for that park than NFL did for MK, imo. I was there as they were in the process of revitalizing it, and the differences are astounding.

While I enjoy NFL, it's nowhere near the same level as what they accomplished at DCA

You don't agree, and that's fine. I just find it telling that WDW, what is supposed to be the flagship of the Disney theme parks, has almost the same number of attractions in 4 that DLR has in 2, with double the amount of space. That dichotomy has existed for quite a while, and will likely continue for quite a few more (if their construction timeline is as...laidback...as it has been with Avatarland).

 

[Coffee50]

Yes!

Cool!

I asked because while it might not work for everyone, for a nice percentage of people, it would seem like DLR would be an alternative. (i.e, # of attractions, crowds, FP+)

While DLR is my home park & I'm an AP, I've been to both resorts (haven't experienced FP+ yet) but it really might be worth looking into for those who seem to be set on not returning until the crowd / FP+ issues are resolved.

And Avatarland land is coming, as weel as the proposed Star Wars land, so there will be an addition of lands / attractions on the horizon.

 

[magicbob]

I think WDW made a mistake opening a fourth park because it has made it very difficult to keep each park viable as full day parks (IMO neither DHS nor DAK are right now) but they do have projects going too.

I'm very glad WDW opened a 4th park. Animal Kingdom is right up there with MK as one of our favorites.

For us, it is definitely not a 1/2 day park. We love "soaking in the atmosphere and ambience"... specifically, we spend easily an hour or more on each of the trails observing the animals. Lots of folks look at the tiger and then move on, etc. And there's nothing wrong with that, but we usually spend 10-15 minutes observing each animal. If they are particularly active, we might stay put even longer.

It's kind of an interesting paradox that so many people admonish others for only caring about rides, yet so many consider Animal Kingdom a 1/2 day park because it has too few rides. Maybe it's only the former admonishing the latter?

Anyway, we love the rides, shows, and the animals!

We easily spend from RD to closing and, since AK typically closes earlier than other parks, we can still have an evening dip in the pool or a dinner ADR at a resort or DTD without rushing.

Sorry if that was off-topic. Regarding the OP: even though it's no secret that I've been a vocal critic of "the line reservation system that shall not be named" I would not go as far as to deem "Disney World is broken." That said, if I was locked out of my resort room for hours, I might change my tune.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think WDW made a mistake opening a fourth park because it has made it very difficult to keep each park viable as full day parks (IMO neither DHS nor DAK are right now) but they do have projects going too.

I agree that DHS and DAK aren't full day parks.. they aren't because of the lack of attractions in them. I'm not convinced that not building AK would have caused them to add more attractions to DHS or Epcot

 

[jeepnx01]

I've been to DW over 10 times in my 40+ years and the experience just gets worse each year. I really wanted to believe that each bad visit was just an anomaly...maybe bad luck, or the wrong time of year, but I've learned that it doesn't really matter when you go, the Disney Magic is long gone.

The root of all the problems are the crowds, or more specifically the over demand/ under supply imbalance related to their most popular attractions. Even in the "slow" months ( I just got back yesterday), the parks are so crowded you are forced into full Disney combat mode to make sure you have a " fun" time at the park. You all know what that is... Get there at rope drop, get your fast passes, plan your route, make ur adrs months in advance, eat early, ride while others are watching parades. It's INSANITY! But not doing all that is even more insane because you'll be stuck in lines all day and maybe even miss riding certain attractions all together if you don't follow THE plan. There has got to be a better way. A way for an average family to have a fun, relaxing, enjoyable time at a DW park without having to read the Disboards for a month, make adrs months in advance, get up at 6am to beat rope drop, or need a precise touring plan to stay one step ahead of the masses all day long.

I think it's time for a rebellion. It's time we let disney know that their parks are broken. That the experience has lost a lot of its fun. THat we are tired of them allowing more people into the parks then their attractions and restaurants can comfortably accommodate. That we expect some drastic rethinking of what sort of experience they are attempting to provide.

To address these problems won't be easy or cheap, and disney has absolutely no incentive to even try unless we make our displeasure known. So if you too found your disney vacation more of a stresscation than a vacation, speak up, let us know what you think could be done to make things better.

I'll start with my 2 cents.

1. In busy periods, far fewer people should be let in. It's that simple. Just because they are legally allowed to jam a zillion people into the park, doesn't mean they should.

2. Even in slower periods, you're still stuck in crazy long lines for the main rides or forced to get there at rope drop to ensure fast passes. This has to end. How? I don't know, but I'm sure they could try something. Maybe they change park pricing to discourage multiple rides on popular rides. How about $60 park admission, but $10 extra for each ride on splash mountain, space mntn, soarin, test track, tot, and any other super popular ride. Or maybe they offer fast passes only to those who pay like at universal, or maybe they build a second soarin, test track, etc to cut lines down.

These might all be lousy ideas, but the point is, there has to be a good idea out there somewhere. It's time disney started trying harder to find it.

Please add to this post with your comments/ideas if you too would like to see change. Dis execs do read these boards and will notice this thread if it gets big enough.

I agree that something needs to be done. I was there in the beginning of December and it was the most that I've ever seen it. This is the time frame that I usually go. Last time that I went was in 2008. Between 2008 and 2013 there was a big difference between crowd levels, the quick service meals and even room quality. They need to put soundproofing in the Pop rooms.

 

[Tink-n-Belle]

What is broken are the high expectations of the guest. When i went to my local amusement park, I had to wait in line 60-75 minutes for each roller coaster.......
25 minutes for food and chose from spinning rides after spinning ride.

When we used to go to a Disney in the 70’s you Could only ride so many ride....and they were divided into a b c d E tickets....then in the 80’s and early 90’s you had passhoppers which let you ride your favorite rides over and over again and yes you waited in line. Disney then came up with FP and didn't charge for it....and yes people became experts.....but those using the system to the max made the waits for people who didn't know what FP was longer.

So now disney tries to limit FP's and OMG Disney is broken.

Where can you go and get the entertainment you get from Disney in slow and in busy times. Think about the parades And all the people necessary to make it happen. Does the low sept crowd get half a parade or half of wishes.

Disney is a business and they too were hurt by the economic downturn.....but they redid fantasyland, added M&g for so many characters .......when I was a kid the only character I met was foul fellow (I think it's his name.)and I didn't even know who he was. Now kids can meet Belle...to tink...to Daisy...and even sorcerer Mickey. In fact splash didn't open til I was 26.

Yes Disney is crowded....I have kids and travel during school vacation. Why should I be kept out of a park because you want to ride with no lines?

Maybe what they should do is have after hours for 5000 guest at $300 a pop so you can ride w/o lines.

The DDP ruined the restaurants for me so I just make other arrangements that work out better for me.......so I guess if you don't enjoy Disney anymore, you'll have to find something else. A DCL cruise is wonderful.....but the aquaduck has lines.....and there are no FP's.

 

[mom2rtk]

When we used to go to a Disney in the 70’s you Could only ride so many ride....and they were divided into a b c d E tickets....then in the 80’s and early 90’s you had passhoppers which let you ride your favorite rides over and over again and yes you waited in line. Disney then came up with FP and didn't charge for it....and yes people became experts.....but those using the system to the max made the waits for people who didn't know what FP was longer.

But you overlooked that back in the 70's they did not have all-admission pricing. They do now. Disney seems to want the best of both of those worlds.

 

[larryz]

But you overlooked that back in the 70's they did not have all-admission pricing. They do now. Disney seems to want the best of both of those worlds.

And Disney's answer???

 

[Mad Hattered]

And Disney's answer???

Hey, now....I used something like that earlier on this board. Great minds must think alike.

 

[btk2333]

The revitalization of DCA did so much more for that park than NFL did for MK, imo. I was there as they were in the process of revitalizing it, and the differences are astounding.

While I enjoy NFL, it's nowhere near the same level as what they accomplished at DCA

You don't agree, and that's fine. I just find it telling that WDW, what is supposed to be the flagship of the Disney theme parks, has almost the same number of attractions in 4 that DLR has in 2, with double the amount of space. That dichotomy has existed for quite a while, and will likely continue for quite a few more (if their construction timeline is as...laidback...as it has been with Avatarland).

Very true- NFL did not revitalize MK as much as Cars Land did to DCA, my point was just that MK did not NEED to be revitalized as much as Cars Land. The dichotomy is interesting- as someone who grew up visiting WDW much more often than DLR (I've only been to DLR twice in my life) WDW seems like the norm- that is obviously part of my preference.

I'm very glad WDW opened a 4th park. Animal Kingdom is right up there with MK as one of our favorites.

For us, it is definitely not a 1/2 day park. We love "soaking in the atmosphere and ambience"... specifically, we spend easily an hour or more on each of the trails observing the animals. Lots of folks look at the tiger and then move on, etc. And there's nothing wrong with that, but we usually spend 10-15 minutes observing each animal. If they are particularly active, we might stay put even longer.

It's kind of an interesting paradox that so many people admonish others for only caring about rides, yet so many consider Animal Kingdom a 1/2 day park because it has too few rides. Maybe it's only the former admonishing the latter?

Anyway, we love the rides, shows, and the animals!

We easily spend from RD to closing and, since AK typically closes earlier than other parks, we can still have an evening dip in the pool or a dinner ADR at a resort or DTD without rushing.

Sorry if that was off-topic. Regarding the OP: even though it's no secret that I've been a vocal critic of "the line reservation system that shall not be named" I would not go as far as to deem "Disney World is broken." That said, if I was locked out of my resort room for hours, I might change my tune.

I just want to clarify, I'm not admonishing you for liking animals, I know there are people who love DAK and can enjoy doing things that you described. We just are not that into animals- we like the safari, we've done the Wild Africa Trek tour- which was outstanding, but for us it doesn't hold our attention for the whole day. I'm glad it does hold yours! I also am not admonishing people for only liking the rides- I totally understand that too, I love the rides, and have attempted an ultimate touring plan before (failed, but mainly because I didn't do my research, someday I will pull it off!)

I agree that DHS and DAK aren't full day parks.. they aren't because of the lack of attractions in them. I'm not convinced that not building AK would have caused them to add more attractions to DHS or Epcot

True- I cannot be positive that not building DAK would have brought more attractions to DHS or EPCOT. Likely WDW would not have spent the amount of money they spent on DAK at DHS or EPCOT.

I am looking forward to potential Lucasland expansions, hopefully at DHS. I certainly understand the criticism about timetables for expansion and how slow constructions seems to go at WDW; however, I still love being at WDW as much now as ever before and am looking forward to many more magical vacations in the future

 

[Yellowstonetim]

What is broken are the high expectations of the guest. When i went to my local amusement park, I had to wait in line 60-75 minutes for each roller coaster.......
25 minutes for food and chose from spinning rides after spinning ride.

When we used to go to a Disney in the 70’s you Could only ride so many ride....and they were divided into a b c d E tickets....then in the 80’s and early 90’s you had passhoppers which let you ride your favorite rides over and over again and yes you waited in line. Disney then came up with FP and didn't charge for it....and yes people became experts.....but those using the system to the max made the waits for people who didn't know what FP was longer.

So now disney tries to limit FP's and OMG Disney is broken.

Where can you go and get the entertainment you get from Disney in slow and in busy times. Think about the parades And all the people necessary to make it happen. Does the low sept crowd get half a parade or half of wishes.

Disney is a business and they too were hurt by the economic downturn.....but they redid fantasyland, added M&g for so many characters .......when I was a kid the only character I met was foul fellow (I think it's his name.)and I didn't even know who he was. Now kids can meet Belle...to tink...to Daisy...and even sorcerer Mickey. In fact splash didn't open til I was 26.

Yes Disney is crowded....I have kids and travel during school vacation. Why should I be kept out of a park because you want to ride with no lines?

Maybe what they should do is have after hours for 5000 guest at $300 a pop so you can ride w/o lines.

The DDP ruined the restaurants for me so I just make other arrangements that work out better for me.......so I guess if you don't enjoy Disney anymore, you'll have to find something else. A DCL cruise is wonderful.....but the aquaduck has lines.....and there are no FP's.

Nothing else needs to be said.

 

[mikedoyleblogger]

I'm curious if people really consider the Disneyland resort, or any of the other Disney resorts........as an alternative.

Lots of WDW vets have been visiting the DLR forums asking questions lately and citing Fastpass+ as the reason they're thinking about visiting DLR instead of WDW. Other WDW vets who've already done DLR instead because of Fastpass+ have also chimed into those threads offering support and advice. So the answer seems to be yes for some people.