Disney will find a way to make a Marvel 5th gate

[fannatic]

The Transformers was designed as a replacement for Spider-Man. Check out the review of it at MiceAge. It's the exact same ride. This is why they upgraded the projection system. The Universal contract is a license contract, it isn't perpetual. There is an expiration date on it. Universal started the rumor to save face. My guess is that Universal will be out of the Marvel business within 5 years. You can also be sure that a Marvel Universe park concept is being considered for Florida.

 

[Figment632]

The Transformers was designed as a replacement for Spider-Man. Check out the review of it at MiceAge. It's the exact same ride. This is why they upgraded the projection system. The Universal contract is a license contract, it isn't perpetual. There is an expiration date on it. Universal started the rumor to save face. My guess is that Universal will be out of the Marvel business within 5 years. You can also be sure that a Marvel Universe park concept is being considered for Florida.

You are wrong they use the same ride system that is all. Transformers was designed before Disney even bought Marvel!

 

[dgundry]

In Reedy Creek's 10 year plan, There is no 5th gate capacity planning on the slate until at least 2020.

I'm sure this has been around (since it looks to have been published in 2010/11). The picture does seem to indicate that there could be a 5th FL park by 2020 (according to their definition of "maximum development").

Just thought that was a bit enlightening.




P.S. If there is a 5th park, I don't see it being themed Marvel for all the reasons above and especially considering their contractual restraints with Universal.

 

[ASteelersMidget]

Disney bought Marvel for two reasons and two reasons alone the movies make money and besides POTC they had nothing to offer males 10 and over.

1. You will never see a Marvel park in Florida.

2. They may build one over seas or even as a third gate in DL but not in WDW.

3. And the most important point is a 5th gate would not help WDW but hurt it. They can't keep the 4 parks they have up to Disney standards. Look at the state Test Track was in that Soarin is in for proof.

4. When would it happen? They ate spending almost 1.5 billon on MK and then a lot on Avatarland! Also next year another major attraction in MK is getting a major over haul. So let's just round and say when all us done over the next 5 years they will have spent close to 2 billion dollars on WDW.

What major attraction is that?

 

[JB2K]

That remains to be seen. While Dark Knight Rises has been predicted to be this summer's blockbuster, it may have a big hill to climb after what Avengers just did. Either moviegoers are going to be primed and we'll see a repeat of what just happened, or they'll stay away for fear of the darkness that's being portrayed so far in the advertising. Avengers was fun and really enjoyable, but so far DKR just looks like a dark, scary repeat of Dark Knight. I'm still planning to see it, but I really think Avengers set the bar pretty high and DKR is going to fall just short of reaching it.

Ditto -- and much of TDK's earnings in 2008 were from movie fans who wanted to view the late Heath Ledger's final performance. Nothing more.

A big difference between "The Avengers" franchise (and related character films) and Christopher Nolan's take on "Batman" is that I would be hard-pressed to take an 8 year-old to see TDK, where with "The Avengers", I would be more comfortable in doing so.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

What major attraction is that?

I believe he's referring to Big Thunder Mountain....

if so...that means his mouth should be washed out with soap for describing big thunder as "major"

 

[DanBoris]

The Transformers was designed as a replacement for Spider-Man. Check out the review of it at MiceAge. It's the exact same ride. This is why they upgraded the projection system. The Universal contract is a license contract, it isn't perpetual. There is an expiration date on it. Universal started the rumor to save face. My guess is that Universal will be out of the Marvel business within 5 years. You can also be sure that a Marvel Universe park concept is being considered for Florida.

The upgrade to Spiderman was more then just the upgraded projection system, they also re-did all the animation. They wouldn't have spent the money to do that if they were going to re-theme the rider any time soon.

As for the Marel agreement, there is no expiration date on it. As long as Universal keeps up it's part of the agreement they can keep it as long as they want. You can read it here in section III:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1262449/000119312510008732/dex1057.htm

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Ditto -- and much of TDK's earnings in 2008 were from movie fans who wanted to view the late Heath Ledger's final performance. Nothing more.

A big difference between "The Avengers" franchise (and related character films) and Christopher Nolan's take on "Batman" is that I would be hard-pressed to take an 8 year-old to see TDK, where with "The Avengers", I would be more comfortable in doing so.

i agree that the untimely death of Ledger made the Dark Knight an extra helping of cash....

but lets not forget that Dark Knight was also the best comic book movie ever made...and its not close. Batman Begins might have been the next closest thing...along with Superman (original), X-2, and 300 - if you consider that a comic book movie.

Batman has always crossed some boundary lines with the genre....he's dark...he's screwed up...adults like him. He doesn't always get the girl...and if he does...he often gets her killed.
I'm not even going to go over the fact that the Joker...and Ledgers take on it...is also the best.
A clown that kills people to watch them suffer? that is a universal human nightmare image.

And batman is also always portrayed as deeply human. If the Sups were having a working lunch at the bar...the Bat would skip out to see his therapist.

And still, little boys can like him and act him out in the backyard.


But all that aside....opening day is due to hype...and the next dark knight will get 200 million because of the hype/follow-through of the original one alone.

If horrible transformers movies can make 150 over three days...then a sequel to what was a GOOD popcorn movie is guaranteed it.

I dont' think i'll like this movie - by the way - but its probably a safebet for a 200 mil opening and 500 mil domestic gross...easy
.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The upgrade to Spiderman was more then just the upgraded projection system, they also re-did all the animation. They wouldn't have spent the money to do that if they were going to re-theme the rider any time soon.

As for the Marel agreement, there is no expiration date on it. As long as Universal keeps up it's part of the agreement they can keep it as long as they want. You can read it here in section III:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1262449/000119312510008732/dex1057.htm

I don't ever see the universal/marvel contract being abandoned.

Why? Disney makes money off a park that is 8 miles away - and therefore actually feeds customers to Disney's parks - without spending one cent on employee or operational costs....its gold

And if disney were to "win" their characters back - what would they gain? The loss of a lucrative licensing deal and billions -literally - of construction dollars to incorporate the marvel brand into their existing or...even worse...new parks.

That's just bad economics.

The only way universal "ends" its marvel contract is if:
A. Universal is bought and the new buyer has its own existing contracts with other brands or can negotiatiate a blockbuster deal with new ones
B. The park is closed and dismantled.

Neither of those things are close to likely

 

[tjkraz]

I'll take the middle of the road, here.

I think the Marvel films are going to be around for a looooooong time and make a lot of money for Disney. For the last few years people have been saying that the genre is played out. Yet it's entirely possible that Avengers and Dark Knight will finish 1 & 2 at the box office this summer.

Marvel did just an amazing job of bringing all of these characters together...orchestrating the different character tie-ins throughout 4 peripheral films (IM, IM3, CA & Thor) over a period of 4 years. And they've had the foresight to sign the actors to long term deals. Based upon what I have read, Mark Ruffalo is signed to play Banner in SIX films. Chris Evans' deal is also for six. Samuel L Jackson's contract was for NINE pictures.

Some people will tire of super hero action films but saying that the genre is burning-out entirely is a bit like saying that audiences don't want to see police dramas anymore or organized crime dramas or raunchy adult comedies. $200 million in three days suggests people will turn up for quality entertainment...even if it is popcorn fluff that won't be nominated for best picture.

As for theme park potential, I think Marvel is best suited as a single land within a park. The appeal of Marvel properties will ebb and flow with things like film and DVD releases.

I always thought it would be a great fit for the Streets of America section of Hollywood Studios. Retheme it to be a sort of Marvel-ized NYC. Fill the streets with a variety of Marvel "Easter eggs" and interactive elements, while adding a couple of attractions and a restaurant to the surrounding area.

But of course that pesky contract stands in the way.

As for the contract having some ending date in the near future, I'll believe it when I see it. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the Universal Transformers attraction matches Spider-Man. That would have saved millions in development costs by not having to engineer a new ride layout, fabricate new parts, etc. Developing these attractions isn't like Rollercoaster Tycoon where you pick a straight or curved piece of track.

Disney would have to formulate some dramatic plan for use of the Marvel characters to even entertain termination of that licensing deal with IOA. Right now Universal pays millions per year in licensing fees and Disney / Marvel does absolutely nothing.

 

[Figment632]

I believe he's referring to Big Thunder Mountain....

if so...that means his mouth should be washed out with soap for describing big thunder as "major"

Nope not BTM I still digging but it would happen next year.

 

[OldsDr]

.... Why? Disney makes money off a park that is 8 miles away - and therefore actually feeds customers to Disney's parks - without spending one cent on employee or operational costs....its gold

...

That is what people don't understand. As consumers we get emotional and want things because it feels right. Disney and Major League baseball are two of the best at playing the emotional/Business cards.

When things are tuff and they play on your heartstrings and talk of nostalgia i.e. Disney throws up a clip of Walt and MLB will throw one of Ruth or Mantle or Williams and get the memories flowing. Then when they got you they say "this is a business and we have to make money so buy a $6 hotdog and $12 dollar beer. (what i am trying to say is they use their assests to make the most amount of profit as possible)

I do not know how much Disney is making off of IOA, it is probably not peanuts. Since they get a check for doing absolutely nothing someone would have to come up with one over the top business case to get Disney management interested in having a financial liability in getting that check. Right now they have effectively an infinite rate of return (invest nothing and get a check) Plus free advertising. Every time someone walks past the Hulk coaster they probably think of the movie.

Not to mention the parks are profitable because of girth. From a top level point of View every dollar spent on a park returns less than a dollar spent at any other division. You would probably see ESPN get a new parks worth of money before the parks get it.

What would not surprise me is if it is not prohibited by the contract to have a Marvel store open at DTD or something in Disney Quest.

First and foremost, let them work on fixing the 4 parks they have lost control of. They do that right they will have plenty of theme park activities for years to come.

 

[anthony2k7]

Nope not BTM I still digging but it would happen next year.

my guess would be IASM.... purely because of adding nextgen stuff to it.

 

[donalduck]

I was just on a wdw bus and the bus driver told me that there is going to be a 5th gate.

 

[Figment632]

my guess would be IASM.... purely because of adding nextgen stuff to it.

Yup that's t is one th I've heard the others are Jungle Cruise and TL Speedway!

 

[ChrisFL]

Plus if Disney did take over the rights in WDW for use of Spiderman, for example, it would forever be compared to its IOA version, which is arguably one of the top 3 dark rides in the world.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Plus if Disney did take over the rights in WDW for use of Spiderman, for example, it would forever be compared to its IOA version, which is arguably one of the top 3 dark rides in the world.

another valid point

 

[fannatic]

If you read the MiceAge review of The Transformers, it tells that the special effects are exactly in the same places as Spider-Man. I don't think that is a coincidence, but whatever, time will tell. I thought that Spider-Man was a good ride, but I always thought that the Imagineers could do a lot better job. I was always aware that it was a theme park ride with Captain Eo technology. I know that film rides are probably less expensive and can be easily changed, but I'd like to see more rides with the next generation of animatronics.

 

[Figment632]

If you read the MiceAge review of The Transformers, it tells that the special effects are exactly in the same places as Spider-Man. I don't think that is a coincidence, but whatever, time will tell. I thought that Spider-Man was a good ride, but I always thought that the Imagineers could do a lot better job. I was always aware that it was a theme park ride with Captain Eo technology. I know that film rides are probably less expensive and can be easily changed, but I'd like to see more rides with the next generation of animatronics.

Yes it's like how Dino is a complete clone of Indy. Transformers was originally designed for SH UNI and the decision was made ti put it in Cali way before Disney bought Marvel.

 

[JB2K]

I don't ever see the universal/marvel contract being abandoned.

Why? Disney makes money off a park that is 8 miles away - and therefore actually feeds customers to Disney's parks - without spending one cent on employee or operational costs....its gold

And that may be reason-enough for Universal to eventually exit the Marvel business -- they're paying a rival royalties to license their characters.

And if disney were to "win" their characters back - what would they gain? The loss of a lucrative licensing deal and billions -literally - of construction dollars to incorporate the marvel brand into their existing or...even worse...new parks.

"If" it were to happen, I wouldn't anticipate a 5th gate (especially in this shaky economy, and also given the fact that Disney's current big thing is making sure DCA is successful). A more likely scenario is an expansion of DHS, if that's possible.

That's just bad economics.

The only way universal "ends" its marvel contract is if:
A. Universal is bought and the new buyer has its own existing contracts with other brands or can negotiatiate a blockbuster deal with new ones
B. The park is closed and dismantled.

Ah, but Universal was recently purchased (by Comcast, who is the new majority owner of NBC Universal)-- not sure what long-term plans Comcast has in store for the theme park business...

Also, I'm surprised no one has mentioned this -- Six Flags (the current licensee of all theme park attractions related to Batman, Superman, and the rest of the DC Universe) hasn't been doing all that well in recent years -- what if they begin closing more parks (or don't renew those "super" contracts) -- that would be an instant win for whoever scoops-up those characters and does right by them.

Something else to consider, the DC characters are owned by Time Warner, who also owns the film rights to the "Harry Potter" franchise (through Warner Bros.), so seeing Supes and company land at Universal might not be that big of a stretch...

Something to think-about...