Disney to cancel FPs if room is cancelled

[Cinderumbrella]

When you call to book, you say "I'm booking a split stay. The first resort I'd like to book is ___, and the second resort is ___."

If you have CL reservation and are talking to DSS, they also will reference the 1st part of a guests split and then the 2nd. I have never hear them use the term "leading reservation".

To me, leading reservation is a DIS term that is used to quietly reference a specific "strategy."

Thank you! Until a few days ago I never knew this strategy even existed. I think too much of people

 

[DisBuckMan]

I’ve only ever heard the term here on the forums. What does (or did) Disney reservations call the first portion of a split stay?

I assume they call it a reservation.

Don't be confused. A "leading reservation" is exactly what I said...a split stay booked with the intention of using the first half to gain fp/ADR booking advantages...with no intention of keeping the first part of the split stay.

Doesn't matter what Disney calls it...and you're welcome to call it whatever you like. But, it's known here as a leading reservation.

And Disney has perceived it to be a problem, and finally decided to put a stop to it, apparently.

 

[rteetz]

Thanks. The article doesn't quote any source from WDW and is pretty vague about how any new limits will actually be operationalized. Who is WDWMAGIC anyway and why is what they write considered a "confirmation"?

WDWmagic is a Disney news site just like the Dis. WDWmagic does not post a story unless they have confirmation unlike some other sites who will post things as confirmed before they actually are. I trust that this is confirmed.

 

[DisBuckMan]

I think Disney should change the FP booking date to be fewer days in advance to match the hotel cancelation policies. I don’t think it’s fair to penalize people with FP who got a better rate somewhere (possibly off property) or had to change their start date because life happened.

Their system forces 60 day FP planning but only 5 day resort planning. They shouldn’t penalize people for following the policies.

Since the 60 day FP booking window is an onsite perk, it's 100% fair to penalize people with FP booked at 60 days who got a better rate offsite. The perk goes away if you decide to save a buck by staying offsite.

They're not penalizing people for following the policy...they're finally enforcing their own policy and people who have enjoyed the loophole in the past or planned on exploiting it in the future are apparently pissed about it.

 

[mamaofsix]

Great discussion going on. I did want to comment on the prevalence of "gaming the system" attitudes.
-If someone books a reservation and then cancels it to gain the 60 day fp window, that was 'gaming the system' and Disney was right to end the practice.
-If someone books a reservation and pays for it / keeps it for one night and gets a 60 fp advantage, that is not 'gaming the system.' That reservation was legitimate and that person deserves the same rights as any other paying customer. To suggest otherwise makes no sense.

I think what bothers me most about the somewhat miserly satisfaction of posters being excited about Disney making their system more complicated, is that $$$ is at the heart of it.

-If someone can only afford to stay on property for a night or two in a value resort - is it really considerate of those who can afford to stay for 14 days onsite to rub their hands with glee that they get more benefits than the one who could only afford one night? Consider for a moment the single mother who saved up for a decade for this trip and just books that one night because it's all she can afford, and she'd really love for her children to get a few fp's? Now she's stuck with having to book only a few of her fp's at 60 days, and save the rest for 30. Which is fine. But, it seems pretty heartless to revel in her misfortune for my own benefit.

-To the 'umbrella policy' naysayers: I don't understand why it is so 'wrong' for Disney to allow, for example, a set of Grandparents who live in Orlando to be able to go on the same rides / fp's with their grandkids who are staying onsite and they only see once every 5 years. A big part of Disney's revenue is large family / friend units gathering. Why does it bother you so much that Disney is trying to create a smooth guest experience for these families? It's not a 'loophole' or 'gaming the system.' It's excellent guest relations. My local golf and country club allows members to bring guests all the time - who receive the same perks as members. So what? It's good business for them.

In sum, I guess I'd just like to know where the 'gaming the system' sentiment starts and ends. When my family gets free water at QS instead of paying $5 for a bottle of water, are we 'gaming the system' because we didn't pay for it and other guests aren't 'in the know' enough to know it's an option? Are we 'gaming the system' when we pack our own snacks or lunch because other guests are paying for their meals and didn't know bringing in their own food was an option? What about getting a photopass photographer to take pictures of you with your own camera instead of paying for a photopass package? Ask any photopass photographer and they'll tell you it's totally acceptable practice. In fact, it was a photopass photographer who SUGGESTED our family do this. It's not 'gaming the system.' It's being fiscally intelligent. I would put forth that these types of great tips are what the Disboards are all about. We shouldn't be asking the moderators to cease all discussion about something we personally think is 'gaming the system,' especially if it really isn't.

If Disney has not clearly stated a policy to the contrary, you are not gaming the system. To the contrary, you are most likely a guest who is not a millionaire and is trying to find ways that your family can enjoy Disney World without becoming bankrupt.

 

[Runnsally]

WDWmagic is a Disney news site just like the Dis. WDWmagic does not post a story unless they have confirmation unlike some other sites who will post things as confirmed before they actually are. I trust that this is confirmed.

Thanks. I’ve always wondered about WDWMAGIC as it seems like the most “faceless” of the Disney fan sites. All of the other major ones have an obvious person or group of people running it. Also, I realize we’re talking Disney and not NAFTA, but to be a news site you need to provide a source for your reporting. Will be interesting to see how much of the WDWMAGIC post actually pans out...

 

[runwad]

Here, here @mamaofsix ! Finally someone with common sense!

 

[Gentry2004]

Thanks. I’ve always wondered about WDWMAGIC as it seems like the most “faceless” of the Disney fan sites. All of the other major ones have an obvious person or group of people running it. Also, I realize we’re talking Disney and not NAFTA, but to be a news site you need to provide a source for your reporting. Will be interesting to see how much of the WDWMAGIC post actually pans out...

Yes, I think we can feel confident this affects the book/cancel folks. What we don’t know is how the book/modify people will be affected.

 

[Gentry2004]

I am not the loophole police (have booked and paid for throwaway campsites before) and don’t personally have a problem with the umbrella, but I don’t think it’s accurate to say Disney “intends” people to use it the way they do. Grandma/grandpa book a week at Pop and put all the kids/grandkids up in a house in Windsor Hills. It is NOT Disney’s intention for all those people to have 60+ length of stay FP’s. It’s just another loophole like all the others.

 

[crvetter]

-If someone books a reservation and pays for it / keeps it for one night and gets a 60 fp advantage, that is not 'gaming the system.' That reservation was legitimate and that person deserves the same rights as any other paying customer. To suggest otherwise makes no sense

I would agree the check in and check out days used Fastpasses obtained at 60 days was not gaming the system. However grabbing and using the rolling 60 day window (which is gone now) was gaming the system. It was very clearly laid out on Disney’s website “Plus, if you are staying at a Disney Resort hotel, you can make your FastPass+ selections up to 60 days prior to check-in for the entire length of your stay.” So the rolling 60 day window was a big in MDE, IMO, because this sentence clearly says length of your stay. Also grabbing 10 magicbands by booking a tent site at FW seemed unethical to me at the least, somethings allowed can still be unethical.

-To the 'umbrella policy' naysayers: I don't understand why it is so 'wrong' for Disney to allow, for example, a set of Grandparents who live in Orlando to be able to go on the same rides / fp's with their grandkids who are staying onsite and they only see once every 5 years.

Again quoting above “Plus, if you are staying at a Disney Resort hotel, you can make your FastPass+ selections up to 60 days prior to check-in for the entire length of your stay.” The operative word is you, which is plural and singular of course, so it implies to me only those staying at a resort are to make a fastpass selection for the length of their stay. You are more than free to call reservations every time I do I ask this question on who is allowed to make them 60 days before and they told me only those I list on the reservation. I was also told if MDE allows it its a glitch and if found abusing it they may take away fastpass from those individuals. Something I’m not willing to risk.

Why does it bother you so much that Disney is trying to create a smooth guest experience for these families? It's not a 'loophole' or 'gaming the system.' It's excellent guest relations.

It doesn’t bother me when they do that but this statement requires one to believe umbrella is intentionally allowed by Disney which I don’t think it is. Especially at the way it is discussed and used on this site.

When my family gets free water at QS instead of paying $5 for a bottle of water, are we 'gaming the system' because we didn't pay for it and other guests aren't 'in the know' enough to know it's an option? Are we 'gaming the system' when we pack our own snacks or lunch because other guests are paying for their meals and didn't know bringing in their own food was an option? What about getting a photopass photographer to take pictures of you with your own camera instead of paying for a photopass package?

As for your water statement Disney Park Moms (an official Disney sure) has said people can get the water at QS so it is free information: https://disneyparksmomspanel.disney...r-bottle-refill-stations-similar-ones-366785/

As for the food again Disney is explicitly clear on this: https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/faq/parks/outside-food-and-drink/

As for the photopass photographers Disney Parks Moms have covered this: https://disneyparksmomspanel.disney...raphers-picture-own-camera-theirs-know-58631/

So these three items aren’t really the same to compare as loopholes like the fastpass ones. A loophole is specifically finding a way to manipulate the rules for an advantage. These three items are explicitly allowed so not a loophole.

My parents and siblings and I have always stayed offsite and always abided by the 30 days, jealous of those onsite. So I can fully sympathize with Disney being very expensive to afford onsite for the 60 days. Though recently I’ve saved up to start staying onsite myself and taking some family members.

 

[rteetz]

Thanks. I’ve always wondered about WDWMAGIC as it seems like the most “faceless” of the Disney fan sites. All of the other major ones have an obvious person or group of people running it. Also, I realize we’re talking Disney and not NAFTA, but to be a news site you need to provide a source for your reporting. Will be interesting to see how much of the WDWMAGIC post actually pans out...

They either got this from someone they know or Disney internally. Disney does our stuff out internally and then sites get ahold of it. I’ve been doing this a long time and depending on where the info comes from you cannot our sources. I’ve had sources myself you can’t put because of the nature of the news and their job.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Great discussion going on. I did want to comment on the prevalence of "gaming the system" attitudes.
-If someone books a reservation and then cancels it to gain the 60 day fp window, that was 'gaming the system' and Disney was right to end the practice.
-If someone books a reservation and pays for it / keeps it for one night and gets a 60 fp advantage, that is not 'gaming the system.' That reservation was legitimate and that person deserves the same rights as any other paying customer. To suggest otherwise makes no sense.

I think what bothers me most about the somewhat miserly satisfaction of posters being excited about Disney making their system more complicated, is that $$$ is at the heart of it.

-If someone can only afford to stay on property for a night or two in a value resort - is it really considerate of those who can afford to stay for 14 days onsite to rub their hands with glee that they get more benefits than the one who could only afford one night? Consider for a moment the single mother who saved up for a decade for this trip and just books that one night because it's all she can afford, and she'd really love for her children to get a few fp's? Now she's stuck with having to book only a few of her fp's at 60 days, and save the rest for 30. Which is fine. But, it seems pretty heartless to revel in her misfortune for my own benefit.

-To the 'umbrella policy' naysayers: I don't understand why it is so 'wrong' for Disney to allow, for example, a set of Grandparents who live in Orlando to be able to go on the same rides / fp's with their grandkids who are staying onsite and they only see once every 5 years. A big part of Disney's revenue is large family / friend units gathering. Why does it bother you so much that Disney is trying to create a smooth guest experience for these families? It's not a 'loophole' or 'gaming the system.' It's excellent guest relations. My local golf and country club allows members to bring guests all the time - who receive the same perks as members. So what? It's good business for them.

In sum, I guess I'd just like to know where the 'gaming the system' sentiment starts and ends. When my family gets free water at QS instead of paying $5 for a bottle of water, are we 'gaming the system' because we didn't pay for it and other guests aren't 'in the know' enough to know it's an option? Are we 'gaming the system' when we pack our own snacks or lunch because other guests are paying for their meals and didn't know bringing in their own food was an option? What about getting a photopass photographer to take pictures of you with your own camera instead of paying for a photopass package? Ask any photopass photographer and they'll tell you it's totally acceptable practice. In fact, it was a photopass photographer who SUGGESTED our family do this. It's not 'gaming the system.' It's being fiscally intelligent. I would put forth that these types of great tips are what the Disboards are all about. We shouldn't be asking the moderators to cease all discussion about something we personally think is 'gaming the system,' especially if it really isn't.

If Disney has not clearly stated a policy to the contrary, you are not gaming the system. To the contrary, you are most likely a guest who is not a millionaire and is trying to find ways that your family can enjoy Disney World without becoming bankrupt.

To me “gaming the system” is doing something up front that is different than your end position just to get access to things that your end position wouldn’t grant you access to

So booking a stay to book FP at 60 days out knowing you will cancel it is gaming the system. Booking a 10 night stay book FP at 60+10 days for the last 5 days of your trip knowing you will cancel the first 5 days is gaming the system

If you book a room for one night and keep it even if you don’t stay in it and only have access to FP at 60 days for the check in and checkout days of that night, that to me is fine

The umbrella is a bit of gray area to me as I understand the situation you describe but people can also take it too far with one family staying on site one family staying off, and then all booking the 60 days out feels like they shouldn’t have same access as two families that both book to stay on site

 

[Gentry2004]

They either got this from someone they know or Disney internally. Disney does our stuff out internally and then sites get ahold of it. I’ve been doing this a long time and depending on where the info comes from you cannot our sources. I’ve had sources myself you can’t put because of the nature of the news and their job.

I’m not personally doubting the article. There just seem to be several specific scenarios not directly addressed in the article. That’s what we are waiting to see.

 

[jhoannam]

I’ve read that some TAs were using the leading reservation to get their customers better FP. Maybe this was an issue.

If TA were using this I think that Disney was loosing a lot of money.

 

[rteetz]

If TA were using this I think that Disney was loosing a lot of money.

Some might be but I can assure you that’s not a common practice for TAs.

 

[DavidNYC]

WDWmagic is a Disney news site just like the Dis. WDWmagic does not post a story unless they have confirmation unlike some other sites who will post things as confirmed before they actually are. I trust that this is confirmed.

I trust that they confirmed it. I don’t necessarily trust the IT will actually work as intended!

 

[rteetz]

I trust that they confirmed it. I don’t necessarily trust the IT will actually work as intended!

That’s always the biggest question with Disney.

 

[jlundeen]

Some might be but I can assure you that’s not a common practice for TAs.

aren't there some pretty strict rules about travel agents and their booking privileges? I know they have access to things that the average guest booking through Disney does not have, but I believe they also must follow a lot of rules and regulations when it comes to Disney reservations.

 

[rteetz]

aren't there some pretty strict rules about travel agents and their booking privileges? I know they have access to things that the average guest booking through Disney does not have, but I believe they also must follow a lot of rules and regulations when it comes to Disney reservations.

Kind of? There aren’t really any major differences in booking rules with a TA and doing it yourself.

 

[cel_disney]

Since the 60 day FP booking window is an onsite perk, it's 100% fair to penalize people with FP booked at 60 days who got a better rate offsite. The perk goes away if you decide to save a buck by staying offsite.

They're not penalizing people for following the policy...they're finally enforcing their own policy and people who have enjoyed the loophole in the past or planned on exploiting it in the future are apparently pissed about it.

And 30 days advance is an off-site perk. Dropping FP at 10 days out is not affording those that benefit that they have as well. They should change the resort room policy to be 30 days or to clearly state upfront that cancellations between 30 and 5 days will forfeit FP that are booked. Not at the time the cancellation is being done - but as a term of booking.

Further - I also think that on any night you have a onsite reservation - you should be able to keep the FP you made for them.

Let Disney start the ‘crackdown’ by stopping the 60 day rolling wave and cancelling FP for rooms/packages cancelled between 60 and 30 days. There are too many legitimate reasons for changes to reservations that happen to jump into all of this.