Disney Snobs?

[Peter Pirate]

Are we Disney lovers, friends, knowledgeable Rumors/Business Board particpants also Disney Snobs?

I ask this question because I just visited the DL Board and read a most wonderful thread about DCA and every respondant liked it. No, it wasn't DL, no, it wouldn't compare to TDS, but they all had fun...Disney fun. They didn't care that many of the rides were retreads or off the shelf, they didn't care that some of the attractions were passive. They almost all had 'bad feelings' going in (due to all of the bad publicity). But the majority had much fun, feel this will be a very good & crowded Park in the future and were able to overlook the reported "cheapness" and many mistakes (that are admittedly there) to have a wonderful, Disney experience.

Are we, here on the Rumor/Biz Board too sophisticated? Because of what we know, what we've read, what we've seen in the past. Do we fail to let our senses run free in situations perceived to be less than what we'd expect from Disney? Will we only be satisfied with big money ventures & cutting edge technology. Can we not be satisfied by the littler joys of a Disney offering? Are we wrong about DCA? Will be feel wrong in 10 years?

No, DCA is not DL nor TDS, but has it been judged fairly? Any thoughts?

Link

 

[YoHo]

I've been over to the DL board. They can be somewhat snobby too. (Its Walt's park, WDW sucks) I think that the attendence numbers at DCA overwhelmingly speak for themselves.

you don't hear too many complaints on the Attractions board either. The only place with as much griping as this board about Disney is the resturant board which is mainly caused by Subjective personal food opinions. For example, I think the Akerhaus is the best resturant in World Showcase, because I like Norewgian food. With the german pavilion coming in second. MAny people dislike one or both of those.


So I guess what I'm saying is that we look at things differently, and so draw different conclusions. We are not being snobs.

 

[All Aboard]

I agree with YoHo, on the attractions, resorts, community and restaurant boards it seems everyone rides in car number 1 (or maybe even car number 0.75. -- same kind of math as YoHo+gcurling=0, I guess ) The DL board is no different when it comes to DL.

And, yes, there is alot of "DL is great, WDW is a meager shadow" debate going on on the DL board. So, it does not surprise me that there is alot of DCA hoorah going on there as well.

On the flip side, I do believe that alot of folks really enjoy DCA. But, seems the sample is skewed in that thread.

I've never been to DCA, so I can't comment one way or the other.

PS - YoHo, I've eaten at Akershus 8 times this year, it doesn't get much better than that. Plus, Kristina from Bergen Norway may be the best looking CM in any park. (Honey it wasn't me typing that.)

 

[Peter Pirate]

Now I know your wife doesn't look at the DIS!

OK, oh for two in the snob dept., and realize I'm not necessarily stating that point, but the general positivity of that particular thread made me wonder if I too, would not find the glass half full portion of DCA. In fact I was able to find great airfares to CA. for later this month, but alas, the GC was sold out! Things MUST be picking up. Anyway, so you two guys stand by your convictions? Intersting.

 

[YoHo]

Mr. Pirate, Might I recommend the Disneyland Hotel. It is an excellent hotel (be forewarned that it is more like a normal hotel then any WDW resort) real close to the monorail for a shorter wait to enter DL. Right next to DTD for expansive resturant choices. Also it has Hook's resturant and Wine celler, both of which are absolutly excellent.
Oh and the Swimming pool is cool.

 

[Judy from Boise]

I do think that there is a tendancy ( perfected in academia) that critisim and cynicism correlates with intelligence....and it is a slippery slope we all have to be aware of. Being critical and hard to please in the long run only hurts the person. I know because being a control freak I fight this on another level

I ask myself would I rather be happy or correct ? When you arrive at a Disney park your focus should switch to happiness JMHO


Now about MK.....everyone who has two nuerons to rub together knows it is a pale imitation of DL

 

[YoHo]

Now about MK.....everyone who has two nuerons to rub together knows it is a pale imitation of DL

Agreed, except for Splash mountain and Cindy's Castle vs Sleeping Beauty's castle.

and the park entrance.

 

[Judy from Boise]

I'll for sure give you Splash !

Plus I love peoplemover and COP.....

 

[Sarangel]

From someone who's actually been to DCA, it IS fun. The major difficulty (and source of many complaints) is that there's not enough for small children to do in the park, since many of hte best rides are hight restricted and/or appeal more to the adult sensiblilty (how many children do you know who care about how wine is made?). I personally believe that once the park has a chance to grow up it will be a tremoundous success, but that it needs the time to grow up. But you have to bear in mind that I pay $100/year to visit this park (the upgrade to my DL Premium park pass) - which works out to about $12.50/visit for me - so I don't have any of the cost:value ratios to sort out. I treat DCA as an extension to Disneyland & love it.

That being said, DCA is also un-arguably a dismal failure financially. They're laying off a number of people in the entertainment department (by reducing the Electrical Parated to Friday & Saturday and reducing the number of times Eureka! runs, as well as closing Steps in Time (thankfully). Wolfgang Puck's Avalon Cove is closed, Mondavi is reducing its commitment and funding... I wouldn't be surprised to see them limit the hours or even close the park during the slack times of the year, but I would be disappointed.

Sarangel

 

[Another Voice]

Knowledge doesn’t breed either sophistication or snobbery. It’s that once you peek inside a toy and see the gears and cogs that run the machinery, you loose a bit of your innocence. You begin to understand how your toy works, and understanding is the exact opposite of magic.

Some people can become bitter by their loss. Some people are satisfied with the shine on the surface. Others learn to develop a new sense – appreciation of the craft involved. But good art is layered deep and it takes appreciation to uncover those layers.

The layers like you find in ‘Pirates’ where each section starts off with a sweeping vista right out of the movies: rounding the fort and seeing the ship firing, the expanse of the when you first see the town on fire. As you move through the scene everything becomes closer, more intimate so that you soon are focused on just a few pirates. Think in movie terms, you’re opening with a wide shot to take in the whole scene, then zooming in to pick out the interesting details. Instead of just with a bunch of indistinct people shooting at each other, you see individual pirates: the one with the hats trying to get in the boat, the one on the bridge with the hairy leg, the dog holding the keys. They’ve become individual characters and the fact that most of the people who read this can picture EXACTLY which figures I’m talking about shows the power that kind of story telling can have.

To accomplish something like that requires a lot of skill, talent and artistry. Understanding “how” something work doesn’t take away any more “magic” than you’re willing to give up, but it gives you a new way at looking at things.

The downside, however, is that you can also see where talent, skill and artistry are missing. Around this board, I think we have far more people who’ve opened up their wind-up toy to look at the mechanics. We’re far more likely to understand the workings, and far more likely to see when the toy doesn’t have anything on the inside at all…


(Mr. Pirate coming out to the unfashionable side of the country! Who’d have thought! Try calling the Grand Californian directly. Most of the rooms at the hotel are blocked out to various departments, conventions and tour companies. If you talk directly to the GC they may have some rooms that were returned. The dip in attendance only lasted about a week out here – both Disneyland and DCA are back to their “normal” levels).

 

[hopemax]

I've been to DCA, and I would say that I had "fun" while I was there, but that doesn't mean I think it is a good park. The problem is creating something that stands out above the millions of other possible destinations and makes someone choose to visit it in the first place, and second to get someone to return to multiple times.

Circumstances have allowed me to visit lots of places throughout the US, and I had fun at just about all of them. That doesn't mean that those places are good enough for me to recommend that others spend thousands of dollars to go see them, and it doesn't mean that they are good enough that I would choose to return there than to go somewhere else. That's DCA's problem for me. I've seen it, there are a bazillion other things I want to do before going back. One of those things is seeing Disneyland (which would mean a trip to DCA by association). Unfortunately because of DCA, Disneyland has less money to build new things, and replace and maintain old things so Disneyland is slipping down the list of places I want to visit too.

The end result is with a limited amount of time and money I am choosing other things than DCA/Disneyland even though those places are "fun."

 

[airlarry!]

In a bizarre coincidence, Jim "Ready to Run Disney" Hill just posted a new article this weekend at www.laughingplace.com which argues that DCA is neither as good as MK or DL nor as bad as "Disney Snobs" have marked it. If I may paraphrase him here, I believe his argument is that it was intended to be an MGM-type park, filled with high adventure attractions for the teens+ segment. He says that MGM had a similar complaint about it early in its opening--ie that it had not enough things to do, and not enough kid-things to do.

Do I agree? Well, I haven't been to DCA. However, I was at MGM soon after opening. Yes, it was only a half-day park, (which bugged my Dad to no end cause we were not park-hoppers back then), but it had outstanding attractions for the opening. Beyond Soaring and the Animation and the Screamer, there is not much there that I would want to ride at DCA...unlike my eager anticipation for a trip to TDisneySeas.

 

[Peter Pirate]

I think I agree with a good bit of Hill's statements about DCA, especially with regard to the MGM analogy. All of my comments must be qualified, however, as I have not been to DCA, either. But AV, Sarangel, Gary & others have given us good descriptions.

I feel the opening day lineup isn't that bad. In addition to the (generally accepted) Animation Tour, Soarin' Over California, California Screamin' & Grizzly Peak River Run, there is also King Triton's Carousel (a winner for kids), MGM retreads like Mupets & Millionaire (which are both winners, IMO) & I would think no one would complain about the Sun Wheel at Paradise Pier for a fit.

Additionally, I think rides like Mailboomer, Orange Stinger & Golden Zepher would probably have been accepted as B or C ticket rides had Disney built say TOT & Armageddon right off the bat. The problem was Disney's reliance on the second tier rides to draw as first tier. Certainly they did fine with the basic three signature rides (Soarin', Screamin' & Peak) but there seems to be too many areas with just too little and again, perhaps not enough for the wee ones. Tortilla making, wine Tasting & such are great peripherals but should NEVER have been counted on as anything other than A ticket type distractions (i.e. the good stuff Disney used to throw in as an afterthought, an extra, just for fun).

I beleive DCA will grow into a fine Park eventually. Which brings me to the Snob issue. I remember first going to MGM and not liking it very much...It didn't bother me much, I still had Epcot & MK so the 1/2 day at MGM was just a bonus to me. In time MGM has grown into one of my favorite Parks. I think DCA will take the same track...I also think that perhaps we are a little critical and sometimes not very realistic in our assumption and/or expectations...But I agree we're not snobby.

P.S. Thanks for actually reading the post & understanding that I was only throwing soemthing out for discussion & not actually calling us names!

 

[gary]

First, Ditto to Pirate's above post.

Personal experience - done both parks, many times. WDW every year, DL multiple times per year, DCA about 4 or 5 times since it's opened. I say DCA, but I mean going into the park, not experiencing everything. Lots of it isn't worth a return trip, but if you have a 2-Park pass, then it's worth walking through the gate and waiting in line for Soarin'.

I don't think Snob is the right word for people on this board (or the DL board). I think that we get an emotional attatchment and proprietary interest in certain parks, rides, shows, etc. (even in our points-of-view, like business vs. Magic). We defend these points of view from both logical and emotional angles. So, either DL is original, Walt's park, and MK is a pale imitation, or DL is old, cramped, and located in a crowded, run-down area.

Things would be really boring if everyone had the same point of view.

Gary

P.S. They've really spruced-up Anaheim in the area immediately surrounding DL. It's not a showplace, but it's not the seedy looking shops that were there before, either. Mostly nice to decent hotels, with some nice greenery, etc. All in all, I prefer WDW to "The Disneyland Resort", but I can hop in a car after work and get to DL before midnight.

 

[countrybear]

Hello, I'm new to this board but I've been reading your posts for awhile. California Adventure is okay but there isn't as much to do with 3 children like at Disneyland. Most of our friends have the same viewpoint about California Adventure. We thought they would be afraid of the Bug's Life ride but they really liked it. Especially when the walking Flik came out and we took pictures with him and the female ant. I have read that Disney may be adding rides over by the farm area. I hope they make the rides like Fantasyland where we can go on with them. My oldest just turned 8 and our youngest is still in diapers. We all like the rides that we go on together as a family. It's not a lot of fun when we have to split and do the baby swap. We are planning on using the Albertsons coupons to go to Disneyland before they expire. When will they change the Small World over to Christmas decorations?

 

[Janet2k]

I don’t like to think of my fellow Dis’ers as “snobs” but rather as “connoisseurs.” Here’s the Merriam-Webster’s (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=connoisseur) definition of the word:

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Main Entry: con·nois·seur
Pronunciation: "kä-n&-'s&r also -'sur
Function: noun
Etymology: obsolete French (now connaisseur), from Old French connoisseor, from connoistre to know, from Latin cognoscere -- more at COGNITION
Date: 1714
1 : EXPERT; especially : one who understands the details, technique, or principles of an art and is competent to act as a critical judge
2 : one who enjoys with discrimination and appreciation of subtleties <a connoisseur of fine wines>
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