Disney says attendance is down

[Dreamfinder2]

Just an aside ... most of the park attendance problems seem to center around Disney's California Adventure. We've not been, but some of our best friends went this past summer and said, "Don't bother." Apparently it's full of off-the-shelf rides and just doesn't have the "magic." And with Disneyland Paris' Disney Studios not doing so hot, either, the Powers that Be have to be a little antsy. I do know that M. Eisner has been accused of being too cozy with his board, but I'm guessing they're reading the writing on the wall. And re: ABC - my naive feeling is that network TV in general is so out of touch with the heartland, they wouldn't know their constituency if we all went and bit 'em on their collective legs.

If anyone knows Paul Pressler (the parks dude), would you please buy a case of toilet paper and roll his yard?

BUT...

Forgive me for parading around with my boundless optimism, but my guess is that as long as there is imagination in the world, Disney will be with us.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

If incentives don't mean anything, why were sales so brisk at BVC when there was an incentive? I bet sales have slowed somewhat since then.

Incentives are an effective encouragement for many customers, even if they end up being no more than just a perception of savings.

 

[manning]

Goofy fan, The first thing my spouse said after we bought was " now that we are coming down more often we can go to other places." You might get us here, but you haven't gotten us in the park yet.

Paul CT, The price of a ticket hasn't gone up, but the hours of operations have been greatly reduced. That is a defacto price increase. Remember that one pound size can of coffee that cost the same, but now has less than a pound of coffee??? They are one and the same thing. They just hope you don't look at the weight marked on the can. Charge the same, but give them less. In the case of Disney, give them less time and they will have to come back to do in two days what used to take one day. Get it? another admission, and cutting costs. Cut the hours, cut the price.

 

[Eeyore2U]

Originally posted by manning
Charge the same, but give them less. In the case of Disney, give them less time and they will have to come back to do in two days what used to take one day. Get it? another admission, and cutting costs. Cut the hours, cut the price.

If you have read the Themes Parks Board, the overwhelming number of post say crowds are down or light. So it may be that you can get everything you need to get done in a given park one day.

Manning using your logic, those that go in offseason should pay less. They pay the same as those with longer hours but I've yet to hear whining from those guests.

 

[johde]

Looking at the companies financials, Park and Resort revenue was down 17% in the quarter ended December 31 2001. By the March 31 quarter Revenues were down 7% and in the June 30 Quarter Revenues were down 5%. Unfortunately there is no way with publicly available information to correlate this decline with a decline in attendance. Park and resort income though is down more than that; 51% in the December quarter, 15% in the March Quarter; 17% in the June Quarter. The other thing I notices is that right now, Parks and Resorts are supplying close to half of the last quarters income.

Themeparks right now are their cash cow as battered as they are right now.

 

[manning]

No, talking summertime. One of busiest times of the year and hours are cut and prices aren't. There are people complaining that they can't get it all done.

 

[jimmytammy]

sgtpet

I am a shareholder and DVCer and am not too concerned about the stock. As you know practically all stocks have been down for 2 yrs. plus 9/11. We are new to DVC and I and many others wouldnt have joined this yr. if we thought Disney was in trouble.

 

[Goofy Fan]

The entire travel industry is down, not just Disney and WDW. Disney has other issues with ABC that affect its stock, but that's beside the point. The entire travel industry is down because few people are hitting the skies and travelling post 9/11.

The original post was about ticket incentives to DVC members so they will go into the parks. I believe most DVC members do go in the parks. You still have annual points post 9/11 that have to be used. Someone is using the points or they are lost. It is the non-DVC population who are not travelling to Florida. If you look at Universal (2 parks), Sea World, Busch Gardens, etc. they are in the exact same boat as Disney. Their ticket prices are as expensive or more expensive that WDW. I may be in the majority, but I do not see my family and I going down to Orlando to soak up the sun and not go in any parks, whether its WDW or not.

The incentives are out there. Airline fares to Orlando are very low. DD hotels going for $25 a night? People ARE NOT traveling, regardless of incentives. If ticket prices were the same prior to 9/11, what could your argument possibly be other than "What Have You Done For Me Lately".

 

[Eeyore2U]

Originally posted by manning
No, talking summertime. One of busiest times of the year and hours are cut and prices aren't. There are people complaining that they can't get it all done.

Manning,

The posts on the Themes Parks Board say different. I'm guessing 4 out 5 say it's not that bad crowdwise.

 

[Goofy Fan]

I was at WDW during the 4th of July holiday. On Sunday and Monday, 4/7 and 4/8, the whole area around BWV, Y&B, Swan & Dolphin was a ghost town. People were waiting more than 15 minutes for boats to MGM and EPCOT. This was the 3rd out of last 4 years that we've been to WDW during 4th of July. You couldn't move other years. What I did not see this time were all the tour groups from South America that seemed to be more prevalent in previous years. Park Attendance IS DOWN! The International traveller is staying put and not coming to the U.S. and WDW. This, along with U.S. residents still not flying is why park attendance IS DOWN. It's OK. You can say it - Park Attendance IS DOWN.

 

[PKS44]

Originally posted by Goofy Fan
If you look at Universal (2 parks), Sea World, Busch Gardens, etc. they are in the exact same boat as Disney. Their ticket prices are as expensive or more expensive that WDW.

I believe this is incorrect...according to the recent Newsweek piece-"Universal’s attendance has climbed 11 percent in the past two years while Disney’s has slipped 6 percent."

Sounds like Disney is doing something wrong. It is just too easy for Eisner and company to blame it on travel trends--they need to look at the numbers and the mirror and see that they have made mistakes (AK, cutting service, hours reductions, gutting R&D/Imagineering, etc.)

 

[Goofy Fan]

Actually, what I was referencing there was the ticket prices at other theme parks being as or more expensive than Disney. In referring back to other posters who say they would possibly consider going elsewhere without some type of incentive, it seems that they will pay as much to go to other theme parks while shunning WDW. Hence the "What have you done for me lately" comment.

PKS44, what you didn't do is quote more of the same Newsweek article you referenced. Numbers and percentages are a very "relative" concept. In the same Newsweek article, this also was written:

Universal’s two Florida parks sold 12.8 million tickets last year, up 11 percent from 1999. Attendance this year is ahead of 2001’s pace. Disney’s four parks sold 40 million tickets in 2001, down 6 percent from 1999. Disney’s 2002 reservations are off 10 percent.

The 11% up and 6% down in this case is relative to the total number of tickets sold. I could spin that quote to say WDW outsold Universal by 27.2 millon tickets!

 

[WDWDad]

You can spin #'s any way you want, but you can't ignore their effect on the bottom line. The #'s translate to 2.5 million less ticket sales for Disney, while down the road you have 1.3 million more. Let's see 2.5 million @ $ 50.00 per ticket = 125 million $. Not including in park sales.

I'm also a Disney shareholder, and I think the stock is getting beat up much more by the economic panic that's happening rather than the economic fundamentals of the company. But then I'm no Wall Street wizard. And it really isn't what I had hoped that this thread would be about.

First, I hope that we have established that attendance is down. The eyewitness reports seem to verify the numbers reported in Newsweek that Disneys attendance is below historic levels.

Second, the projections by Disney for the 4th economic quarter( 3rd quarter on the calender) suggest that the #'s will continue to be soft. Throw in a little trepidation by Wall Street that we could be looking at a double dip in the economy and the outlook doesn't look good for an upturn in attendance #'s.

Finally, can we get away from assuming that just because we have purchased a continuing interest in Disney property that we will go to the parks regardless? Granted many, probably most, families will continue going to the parks. But as the years pass without new attractions and /or incentives will families continue to attend? I believe that many, maybe most, DVC families have already begun cutting back on the days they spend in the parks. I have no evidence to support such a claim other than my experiences in talking with other DVC families on site and my observations here.

Everyone may not agree with #3, but #1 & #2 seem like givens. So in light of these facts, would a park pass incentive ( say something along the lines of The Disney Club discount ) by Disney(not DVD) be in the best interests of both company and DVC members?

 

[erikthewise]

As a minimum purchase DVC member who plans a 7 or 8-day vacation each year, the question of buying annual passes is a close call. While it wouldn't save money directly, the various perks would be worth spending a little extra, like lower rates when we DO stay at non-DVC resorts, or just being able to duck into Epcot in the evening without having to worry about whether we were wasting a day on our passes.

Virtually any substantial discount, esp being able to buy at renewal rates, would push me over the edge. A DC discount (which we already have) is not quite enough.

 

[Goofy Fan]

So in light of these facts, would a park pass incentive ( say something along the lines of The Disney Club discount ) by Disney(not DVD) be in the best interests of both company and DVC members?

There's the LOS pass discount that DVC members get already. Also, anyone with a DC membership is getting discounts for park hoppers and AP's. If you're looking for something along the lines of a DC discount as you mentioned, couldn't you just purchase a membership for $35? Is the $35 the stumbling block, or is it something you feel should be double what DC or LOS discounts provide?

 

[PKS44]

Originally posted by Goofy Fan
Actually, what I was referencing there was the ticket prices at other theme parks being as or more expensive than Disney. In referring back to other posters who say they would possibly consider going elsewhere without some type of incentive, it seems that they will pay as much to go to other theme parks while shunning WDW. Hence the "What have you done for me lately" comment.

PKS44, what you didn't do is quote more of the same Newsweek article you referenced. Numbers and percentages are a very "relative" concept. In the same Newsweek article, this also was written:



The 11% up and 6% down in this case is relative to the total number of tickets sold. I could spin that quote to say WDW outsold Universal by 27.2 millon tickets!

What I was getting at is that the excuse that the economy is the reason for the downturn in WDW attendence does not hold up to the facts...otherwise Universal should have a downturn also...I also would note that WDW invested in AK to try to increase attendance-it has is failing to do that...Universal added IOA to increase attendance- it seems to be working...whether they overspent is a different issue...so WDW is down and Universal is up, that is the point...it is not news that WDW is still the main player in total numbers, but they are shrinking...in business that is bad.

As to the point of the original thread about DVC members' discounts, I am skeptical that a "discount" would increase WDW's bottom line, but I would hope that Disney is at least looking at the numbers to see. That would be a less risky investment in trying to increase attendance than building a "nahtazoo" that is "nahtasuccess."

Paul

 

[Goofy Fan]

Fair enough.

I think 9/11 still has more to do with it than the economy. European visitors to WDW are down 20% because of 9/11. It will pick up.

As for discount incentives, they are out there. Whether its airfare, hotels, or perpetual ticket discounts available through a few programs, it doesn't seem to be enough right now. I could fly from Phila. to Orlando for $150 and stay at the DD Marriott for $25 a night, but not enough people are chasing the carrots.

Disney will bounce back. Although you can't fault people, we must get back to what we enjoy doing without the fear that has crept into our lives. The people control the economy more than they think. Let's hope the rebound isn't too far down the road.

 

[Joeblack]

Goofy fan is right about his views. This last time, I went to Universal's Islands of Adventure and, even though I arrived early, crowds were way larger than those at any of the parks at WDW. I had heard that July was crowded, but it was nothing compared to christmas week or even May (before 9/11). Actually, I would compare it to the crowds we experienced last January.

As for South American travel groups (especially Brazil), I ran into more of them than ever.....it seems the spirits were high in Brazil in July after their soccer world cup win. However, many people I know (me included) are thinking of flying twice. First, out of fear for what happened in 9/11 and mainly because airport security measures (as necessary as they are) have become too much of a hassle.

As much as I love Small World or Pirates of the Caribbean, I truly believe Disney should start investing a bit more in attractions like ToT, RnR, Spiderman, or Hulk that seem to draw most of the people these days.

 

[PKS44]

Originally posted by Joeblack
Goofy fan is right about his views. This last time, I went to Universal's Islands of Adventure and, even though I arrived early, crowds were way larger than those at any of the parks at WDW. I had heard that July was crowded, but it was nothing compared to christmas week or even May (before 9/11). Actually, I would compare it to the crowds we experienced last January.

As for South American travel groups (especially Brazil), I ran into more of them than ever.....it seems the spirits were high in Brazil in July after their soccer world cup win. However, many people I know (me included) are thinking of flying twice. First, out of fear for what happened in 9/11 and mainly because airport security measures (as necessary as they are) have become too much of a hassle.

As much as I love Small World or Pirates of the Caribbean, I truly believe Disney should start investing a bit more in attractions like ToT, RnR, Spiderman, or Hulk that seem to draw most of the people these days.

ToT -yes, Spiderman-certainly, RnR-okay, maybe; Hulk-NO! the whole theme is in the line, it ends when you get on the ride...it is NOT the Disney way...
and please keep coming, nothing to fear but fear itself...and the hassles...but that has got to beat driving in from Ecuador!

 

[RobDoc]

We drifted far from a DVC topic in this thread.

Please keep additional comments relative to DVC.

Thanks!