Disney rethinks links with Mel Gibson

[Another Voice]

Anyway - back to the topic...

ABC has cancelled a proposed series that Mr. Gibson had planned to do about the Holocaust. In reality this project was started to deflect some of the heat due to Passion but in the two years it’s been in development they don’t even have a script yet. Most people around town think Disney’s move was an easy way to kill a project they didn’t want to do in the first place, but were afraid of getting Mr. Gibson angry.

The rumors are that Disney’s marketing people are in a blind panic over Apocalypto. Without any stars, with all of the dialogue in a dead language, and set in a time no one knows (or cares) about, the only marketing angle was going to be Mel Gibson himself. It is now impossible for him to make any appearances in the near or long term future.

For Disney, Apocalypto is their only big holiday/Oscar movie. The Santa Clause 3 is expected to be a one weekend, critically panned flash, but Mr. Gibson’s movie was expected to be the big money earner. Without it, an already grim year is looking even darker. Disney is committed to releasing the movie on schedule and the race is on to find some unique way of promoting the film. And in an interesting bit of irony, the film is widely regarded as a strident anti-Bush, anti-Iraq parable (and the reason for the big Oscar hope).

 

[pouncingpluto]

No one is saying he doesn't have a *right* to say whatever he wants to say. But people have the right to react negatively to what he says and lower their opinions of him.

 

[carrie s]

Do you see Passion of the Christ? I only saw parts of it so I can't make a complete determination. But I will say this. Jesus, his followers, and even the Romans were well groomed nice looking people. All of the Jews (that I saw) were potrayed as ugly, with bad hygiene and teeth. Visual symbolism? Maybe.

I'm not jewish but count many jews as friends and none of them don't like me because I'm Catholic or have any problem with my beliefs so I'm not sure how you can say that last bit.

I have Seen Passion of the Christ more then once.I did not see the jews as not being well groomed,Jesus and his followers were Jewish.You cant judge a movie by just watching bits and pieces of it.Most of the jewish people who complained about the movie didnt even see it.They started protesting the movies long before it was in theaters,Some jewish people who did watch the movie didnt see a problem with it.

I didnt say that jewish people dont like Christains because of their beliefs Im sorry if I offended you or anyone else.When the movie was coming out the complant wasnt that the jewish people in the movie werent well groomed, the complant was that they felt that jews were made out as bad guys who killed Jesus and that Christains would be mad at modern jewish people for killing our God.(there are alot of articles about that on the internet if you dont believe me) and I have heard of Jewish people who are upset that Christains believe Jesus is God.Im not saying thay all feel this way,just some.I havent heard of any Christians being mad at jewish people,Mel made sure that he showed that Jesus was Jewish.Did you know that mel also talked to the pope during the filming of the movie to make sure he got it right.

Except for all the demons he added to the movie, mel Gibson followed the Bible exactly.

 

[rocketriter]

Booze releases inhibitions. So you normally might be attracted to someone outside your marriage but you have enough self-control not to act on that attraction -- until you're drunk. The attraction is there, but it's under control. Similarly, I think Mel is anti-semitic but has enough self-control not to say so in public -- until he's drunk. I don't think his anti-Jewish tirade was suddenly beamed into him from outer space through a tin-foil helmet.

 

[rocketriter]

I havent heard of any Christians being mad at jewish people...

Well, the entire history of pogroms in Eastern Europe and Russia was fueled by the "Jews killed Christ" accusation, as was the implementation of the Holocaust. Most of my father's extended family was killed in a pogrom carried out by cossacks carrying a "Christ-killer" banner, which is why I have no relatives left in the Ukraine. We don't hear it as often in the United States, but I remember as a child attending a session of a Christian Sunday school with family friends, and walking out crying because a priest started lecturing the children about "Christ-killers." The idea is out there and it has caused centuries of harm.

 

[cxcelica]

Well, the entire history of pogroms in Eastern Europe and Russia was fueled by the "Jews killed Christ" accusation, as was the implementation of the Holocaust.

You honestly don't believe that the Holocaust was carried out because of the feeling that the Jews killed Christ. That could not be more out there. Hitler also committed genocide against the gypsies, and hated Christians as well. Was that because he felt the Jews killed Christ, so he had to kill gypsies and Christians. Hitler was a evil madman, I don't think you can say he was doing it to avenge the death of Jesus.

 

[cxcelica]

Booze releases inhibitions. So you normally might be attracted to someone outside your marriage but you have enough self-control not to act on that attraction -- until you're drunk. The attraction is there, but it's under control. Similarly, I think Mel is anti-semitic but has enough self-control not to say so in public -- until he's drunk. I don't think his anti-Jewish tirade was suddenly beamed into him from outer space through a tin-foil helmet.

Have you ever heard of the saying/phrase "coyote ugly"

 

[carrie s]

Well, the entire history of pogroms in Eastern Europe and Russia was fueled by the "Jews killed Christ" accusation, as was the implementation of the Holocaust. Most of my father's extended family was killed in a pogrom carried out by cossacks carrying a "Christ-killer" banner, which is why I have no relatives left in the Ukraine. We don't hear it as often in the United States, but I remember as a child attending a session of a Christian Sunday school with family friends, and walking out crying because a priest started lecturing the children about "Christ-killers." The idea is out there and it has caused centuries of harm.

I am sorry for what your family went through.

When I said no Christains were mad at Jews I was talking about the movie.Christains did not walk out of the movie blaming jewish people for Christs death like many jewish people believed they would.Alot of jewish people were embaresed over the protesting of the movie because they didnt see anything wrong with it.And why did they protest this Jesus movie, there has been may other Jesus movies over the years.

Im sure there has been people in the past who have called jews "Christ killers"There are alot of people out there who say they are Christains but dont follow what the Bible teaches.The Bible teaches that Jesus, his family and friends were jewish,Jesus kept all the jewish traditions, the bible calls Jewish people Gods chosen people and the Bible teaches that nations who support Isreal will be blessed.So anyone who calls jewish people Christ killers are not following Christ and they will have to face judgement for that one day.

I do think a part of the reason the mel made that comment while drunk was because of how unfairly he was treated over Passion of the Christ.He was critized and called a racist before they even saw the movie, then he had to say sorry.he is probably still holding onto some bitter feelings because of that.I understand that the jewish community thought the people would be mad at them over the movie, but when they werent did they say sorry to mel for their mistake.What Mel Gibson said was wrong but why is it ok for them to spend months protesting his movie that most of them never watched, insult him, but when he makes one comment while drunk hes the bad guy.Alot of people in the world are feeling the way Mel does right now(no Im not one of them,I fully support Isreal in this war) People are scared that this is the start of world war 3,I think thats where his comment came from.I know that doesnt make it ok but people do say stupid things while drunk.

 

[rocketriter]

You honestly don't believe that the Holocaust was carried out because of the feeling that the Jews killed Christ. That could not be more out there. Hitler also committed genocide against the gypsies, and hated Christians as well. Was that because he felt the Jews killed Christ, so he had to kill gypsies and Christians. Hitler was a evil madman, I don't think you can say he was doing it to avenge the death of Jesus.

I agree with you about Hitler. And I didn't say that the Holocaust was designed by Hitler because of this. He had his own political and sociopathic reasons. But throughout Eastern Europe, when communities were ordered by the Nazis to round up and deport their Jews to concentration camps, the "Christ libel" was for many ordinary citizens a reason to comply. Did all comply? Of course not. There are good people everywhere. But the "Christ libel" has been and still is a key component of anti-semitism.

 

[rocketriter]

I am sorry for what your family went through.

When I said no Christains were mad at Jews I was talking about the movie...

Thanks for the explanation. Your point is well-taken.

 

[MJMcBride]

I have Seen Passion of the Christ more then once.I did not see the jews as not being well groomed,Jesus and his followers were Jewish.You cant judge a movie by just watching bits and pieces of it.Most of the jewish people who complained about the movie didnt even see it.They started protesting the movies long before it was in theaters,Some jewish people who did watch the movie didnt see a problem with it.

I didnt say that jewish people dont like Christains because of their beliefs Im sorry if I offended you or anyone else.When the movie was coming out the complant wasnt that the jewish people in the movie werent well groomed, the complant was that they felt that jews were made out as bad guys who killed Jesus and that Christains would be mad at modern jewish people for killing our God.(there are alot of articles about that on the internet if you dont believe me) and I have heard of Jewish people who are upset that Christains believe Jesus is God.Im not saying thay all feel this way,just some.I havent heard of any Christians being mad at jewish people,Mel made sure that he showed that Jesus was Jewish.Did you know that mel also talked to the pope during the filming of the movie to make sure he got it right.

Except for all the demons he added to the movie, mel Gibson followed the Bible exactly.

I did not mean to completely judge the movie which was why I said I didn't see the whole thing. I was merely pointing out objection that I had heard raised and seemed to be accurate.

I think there are plenty of people who still think the Jews killed Christ. I have to agree with rocketriter. And frankly, I am not convinced that Mel is not anti-semitic based on his comments and his father's bizarre views.

 

[carrie s]

I think there are plenty of people who still think the Jews killed Christ. I have to agree with rocketriter. And frankly, I am not convinced that Mel is not anti-semitic based on his comments and his father's bizarre views.[/QUOTE]

Yes, there are still people out there who feel that way.I remember watching an interview with a memeber of the KKK on tv when I was a kid,thats how they felt.There are alot of people in the world so full of hate and others who were raised with false beliefs and just dont know any better.Its sad.

Mel may be abit anti-semitic but you cant judge someone based on their parents beliefs.I no longer share my parents beliefs because I found that they were wrong.

 

[SoCalKDG]

Without it, an already grim year is looking even darker. Disney is committed to releasing the movie on schedule and the race is on to find some unique way of promoting the film.

Grim year? Disney has the two biggest movies of the year and its a grim year?

 

[Another Voice]

It happens when you spend over seven billion dollars to buy a studio and then their next release is considered a major disappointment at the box office. And every single dime that Disney sees from Dead Man's Chest has already been spent to make World's End - a good gamble probably but just ask the folks at Warner Brothers how they did with Matrix 2 and 3.

And did you see Annapolis or The Shaggy Dog or GOAL! or Eight Below or Glory Road or Stick Itany of the other releases this year?

Now look at what's coming out - Deja Vu, The Guardian, The Prestige and So You What to be a Rock 'n Roll Spy. Do you think the combined profits from these movies is even going to cover Lindsay Lohan's rehab bills?

Disney's only major movies left this year are Santa Claus 3 and Mel's Mayan Epic. Dick Cooke just went from being nervous to scared out of his popcorn.

There's a reason Disney is firing 25% of its film staff and it's not because they've run out of office space.

 

[DisneyFanGuy]

The issue, for me, is that Gibson's recent career choices have had very serious religious themes. Sensitive stuff, and he made a ton of money from TPOC, even though it was very controverial in some circles. Now he sounds like a bigoted jerk. A movie company....even Disney, may be just fine with controversy, but they aren't going to want to be associated with someone who is personally offensive to much of their core audience.

And it limits the audience. My wife, for example, won't go see a Woody Allen film because she is personally offended by his off screen life. She's a pretty reasonable person, but she absolutely will not spend a dime on anything that he is associated with. His films in the past 5-10 years have done moderate box office at best, so she may not be the only one that feels that way.

I'm not jewish, but I think that Gibson came accross as bigoted and offensive in the news reports. He has appologized twice, so there must be some truth to his actions. The things that he said, drunk or not, turned my stomach. I have a brother-in-law that says the same kind of things and more. When he drinks it's really bad. I don't let my kids get near the guy, because I don't want them exposed to his filthy mouth. Family doesn't mean that I have to put up with him.

I am a reasonable, middle-aged guy. I am not going to put my money into the hands of an A*********. I can vote with my wallet. I hope Disney drops him and his stupid film like a 50 ton rock.

 

[MJMcBride]

Now look at what's coming out - Deja Vu, The Guardian, The Prestige and So You What to be a Rock 'n Roll Spy. Do you think the combined profits from these movies is even going to cover Lindsay Lohan's rehab bills?

The answer to your question is "probably not". But as to the movies you quoted, they probably cost next to nothing to make. After rentals, they'll probably at least turn a profit. Cars started off poorly, but actually has good staying power did it not? It made a lot of money this summer.

 

[dbm20th]

The answer to your question is "probably not". But as to the movies you quoted, they probably cost next to nothing to make. After rentals, they'll probably at least turn a profit. Cars started off poorly, but actually has good staying power did it not? It made a lot of money this summer.

True, however AV's point is a good one. Disney is making too many clunkers and really should be setting the bar a bit higher. That's why I like that they are down-scaling the whole studio. Less junk, more focus on quality should be the Disney initiative. I don't agree with AV's constant half-empty angle, but I think you may be a bit too half-full here.

 

[MJMcBride]

But they are sitting on top 2 franchise gold mines in Pirates and Narnia. They should be able to print money on the dvds, toys etc.

 

[dbm20th]

But they are sitting on top 2 franchise gold mines in Pirates and Narnia. They should be able to print money on the dvds, toys etc.

Certainly, and they deserve all the credit for producing these 2 terrific film series. And yes Cars started a bit slower then expected, though not the horror that people like to exaggerate about, but as you said it has stayed around and done well. It will also be a HUGE dvd hit come the holidays.

But the point I am making only concerns the way you rosied up films like So You Want to be a Rock and Roll Spy. Disney has produced quite a few of these dogs recently, and I like the fact that Iger recognizes that quantity is not quality

 

[Another Voice]

But they are sitting on top 2 franchise gold mines in Pirates and Narnia.

That’s a huge problem – Disney isn’t sitting on those franchises, Jerry Bruckheimer Productions and Walden Media are sitting on those franchises. Disney gets a cut of those films, but they don’t get anywhere near the full profit they would had the studio developed those movies themselves. In Hollywood accounting, you’ll see Disney able to book the full revenue to their books, but there will be massive “participation” expenses to go along with them. The actual cash that stays in Disney’s account won’t be nearly as impressive.

The second huge problem is Disney’s bloat. A “normal” studio would be able to suffer a string of clunkers as Disney had. But think about all the other things Disney has to pay for besides the actual cost of the movies – you’ve got interest on the Pixar deal, you’ve got the money losing Hollywood Records, ABC and ABC Family are always a problem, you’ve got the care and feeding of Bob Iger (including multi-million homes in both L.A. and New York). You’ve got swank corporate office buildings all throughout the Valley. You’ve got lawyers fighting over iPod rights, you’ve got PR firms bailing out Mel Gibson, you’ve got birthday parties thrown for Lindsay Lohan…on and on and on.

Running a Major Media Mammoth Monster takes a lot of money just to cover the overhead. From the corporate view, it doesn’t matter how cheap Stick It cost to make – the real issue is how much it brings in.

Appolwhatever was supposed to be one of the two cash machines to fund the Disney Studios until PotC 3 was released. That isn’t going to happen now.