Disney release preview of avatar attractions

[twebber55]

I wonder if at the time of announcing Avatarland how far along they were with buying Lucasfilm because they could of easily stuck more Star Wars inplace other than Hollywood Studios. Like an Endor or Kysskkkkk land with Wookies and Ewoks

star wars doesn't fit in DAK at all....it will do well at DHS

 

[rteetz]

I agree
the point I was trying to make was, the poster brought up how avatar land was rejected by OLC but didn't mention other things proposed to them that were being rejected like cars land....sometimes the whole story needs to be told

I'm sure they have rejected other things as well. I will say they don't take short cuts and that is one company that keeps putting money into their brand.

 

[clsteve]

I think there's a lot of truth in this. We also have to remember the time period when this all started getting worked on. HP was just getting off the ground, and Disney probably got nervous. DAK had been a problem for a while, and it was begging for fix. Kill two birds with one stone. With all that Marvel IP locked out (of course they'd never build anything like that in DAK) Disney took Avatar in the hope they could combat HP like that. Also with that foreign appeal they could even get Oriental Land to cover half the design costs.

An HP killer, and DAK fixer all half off? They went with that.

Then Cameron was himself, Oriental Land got ticked, Avatar is'nHP didn't end up making much of a difference to Disney after all, and Disney got access to Star Wars and Frozen.

Killed the urgency a little bit...

Disney would sell what's left of poor Walt to the Ripley's Believe It Or Not Museum if that would get them Potter back. Poor Cameron would find his Magic Band turning up all blue Mickey's the next day if they had another chance at JK Rolling....

Avatar may end up being amazing. But, it's not going to get them close the Potter ROI they missed out on. Take a look at the Comcast 10K from today. It's been interesting reading.

 

[DDLand]

Disney would sell what's left of poor Walt to the Ripley's Believe It Or Not Museum if that would get them Potter back. Poor Cameron would find his Magic Band turning up all blue Mickey's the next day if they had another chance at JK Rolling....

Avatar may end up being amazing. But, it's not going to get them close the Potter ROI they missed out on. Take a look at the Comcast 10K from today. It's been interesting reading.

Indeed, that's got to be one of the biggest mistakes Disney has made in recent history. If you really think about what that land has done it boggles the mind.

Disney's original plan called for urban theme experiences that told the HP story throughout the day. That land alone has attracted millions to Universal. Think of the draw of a full day park/mall could've had positioned in New York, London, etc.

I've been generally pessimistic about those Urban facilities. I think HP could've pulled them off.
Silly Disney...

 

[DDLand]

and just like its been said many times over IP doesn't make or break a ride or themed land
and cars land most certainly didn't have a 60% growth, try 15% tops
which is about what I expect from the DAK expansion
all guesses, good discussion though....thanks

Not saying that, but when I was younger and had never seen Star Wars Star Tours meant a whole lot less. Same with Indiana Jones. IP does make a difference.

Whoops, typo. Should've been 20%+ Good catch. I'll correct that to ensure no one is mislead. You're 15% is a little low. What data are you using?

Indeed, good discussion.

 

[rteetz]

Indeed, that's got to be one of the biggest mistakes Disney has made in recent history. If you really think about what that land has done it boggles the mind.

Disney's original plan called for urban theme experiences that told the HP story throughout the day. That land alone has attracted millions to Universal. Think of the draw of a full day park/mall could've had positioned in New York, London, etc.

I've been generally pessimistic about those Urban facilities. I think HP could've pulled them off.
Silly Disney...

Well JK was very strict in what she wanted of course. She basically wanted control and then you have Disney who wanted to have the control. That's how universal got it. I think Disney could've done it bigger and better. I remember reading a Tony Baxter quote or something that he had some plans he wrote up for potter but Disney didn't want them.

 

[DDLand]

Well JK was very strict in what she wanted of course. She basically wanted control and then you have Disney who wanted to have the control. That's how universal got it. I think Disney could've done it bigger and better. I remember reading a Tony Baxter quote or something that he had some plans he wrote up for potter but Disney didn't want them.

Shame. This is purely my own speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if JK never wanted Disney to get the rights. Not everyone loves Disney, and it honestly seems like some of the strings she was putting on the package were pure insanity. Everyone having to enter a password to enter? What? No one has to do that at IOA. You just sort of walk in...

I'd love to have seen those plans.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

because avatar was incredibly popular around the world like Europe and asia
sometimes we need to recognize that even though I don't like something there is a huge audience out there for it
but like I said, lets have this discussion in two years when this opens to see how successful it is

Really can't keep trying to push this one...

It had its moment In time...but has had zero resonance the next day and on from there..

I think it's naive to think that "this Disney" doesn't value the IP In rides...
They keep cloning rides based on only the most bankable of giftshop brands...

They used to spend large amounts of time and brain power on "non bankable" properties like tower of terror and splash mountain...

But when the last time they did it?
Be honest...it doesn't happen AT ALL any longer. All tie ins...

Why do we have "multiple" toy story rides and little
Mermaid rides rolling out?

But nothing not of that type...the worm has turned there.

 

[clsteve]

Shame. This is purely my own speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if JK never wanted Disney to get the rights. Not everyone loves Disney, and it honestly seems like some of the strings she was putting on the package were pure insanity. Everyone having to enter a password to enter? What? No one has to do that at IOA. You just sort of walk in...

I'd love to have seen those plans.

Insanity to the tune of 17% rev growth YTY with DA only open half the year and an op margin over 32%.....

 

[luisov]

I usually don't mind whether I like an IP or not. I'm there for the rides, and Carsland has proven to me that you don't have to like a particular story in order to enjoy a land based on it.

I agree that Disney's biggest mistake in recent years was to let Harry Potter go. I've heard Tony Baxter mention WWoHP quite a lot and it seems like he truly wanted to work with that particular IP. But hey, I'm really excited about Avatarland even though I don't like the franchise at all. It has lots of potential visually speaking.

 

[DDLand]

Insanity to the tune of 17% rev growth YTY with DA only open half the year and an op margin over 32%.....

Well remember all the circumstances. Disney was actually in negotiation with JK when Universal made a back room offer. She didn't let Disney know until after she signed. Apparently they were already losing hope when she did that maneuver. Still pretty strange.

The benefits have been pretty amazing. Still it seems like there was resistance that was out of their hands.

 

[rteetz]

I usually don't mind whether I like an IP or not. I'm there for the rides, and Carsland has proven to me that you don't have to like a particular story in order to enjoy a land based on it.

I agree that Disney's biggest mistake in recent years was to let Harry Potter go. I've heard Tony Baxter mention WWoHP quite a lot and it seems like he truly wanted to work with that particular IP. But hey, I'm really excited about Avatarland even though I don't like the franchise at all. It has lots of potential visually speaking.

Baxter has been spotted at HP in UNI a few times as well.

 

[clsteve]

Well remember all the circumstances. Disney was actually in negotiation with JK when Universal made a back room offer. She didn't let Disney know until after she signed. Apparently they were already losing hope when she did that maneuver. Still pretty strange.

The benefits have been pretty amazing. Still it seems like there was resistance that was out of their hands.

Revisionist history.

Does JK seem like the type to play the back door, used car salesman, I just got a better deal, game? Hardly. It was her IP, and she cared for it, and its (and her) legacy.

Good Lord, there's no doubt she didn't need the money. And, she definitely doesn't like the limelight.

Donald as Dumbledore and Hermoine M&G's are what cratered the deal....

 

[DDLand]

Revisionist history.

Does JK seem like the type to play the back door, used car salesman, I just got a better deal, game? Hardly. It was her IP, and she cared for it, and its (and her) legacy.

Good Lord, there's no doubt she didn't need the money. And, she definitely doesn't like the limelight.

Donald as Dumbledore and Hermoine M&G's are what cratered the deal....

What?

@clsteve while she was busy making unreasonable demands Universal made a deal. Disney was apparently already losing hope, and had begun looking at other options. It honestly seems like she went out of her way to torpedo it. Like I said my opinion, but when you ask a theme park operator to bottleneck the front gate there seems to be other motives.

What's more all her conditions evaporated when a Universal began construction and design. That's what is so telling.

I think we're basically saying the same thing which is she doesn't seem the type of person to show her "Disney Side."

She did pull that one over WDI. The problem was their reaction was one of "who needs you anyway?" Turns out it's good to run with JK even if she's a bit of a pain.

Even more ironically they went to find a person who was probably just as terrible to work with next. The one and only James Cameron.

I don't think it was a coincidence that Iger told Lucas you're not going to have any control flat out...

 

[old lady]

What are the rides going to be like besides the river of lights?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Rowling didnt give her legacy to Disney (or whoever her excellent handlers were)...I believe...for two basic reasons:

Disney would want too much money...Disney would want too much control - and ultimately push her interests aside.

She was right on both accounts.

 

[DDLand]

Baxter has been spotted at HP in UNI a few times as well.

I'm sure quite a few of his finger prints are on that project. For months they tried to sell her on ideas. Then she went to Universal. She probably didn't just forget them all if you know what I mean.

 

[twebber55]

I usually don't mind whether I like an IP or not. I'm there for the rides, and Carsland has proven to me that you don't have to like a particular story in order to enjoy a land based on it.

I agree that Disney's biggest mistake in recent years was to let Harry Potter go. I've heard Tony Baxter mention WWoHP quite a lot and it seems like he truly wanted to work with that particular IP. But hey, I'm really excited about Avatarland even though I don't like the franchise at all. It has lots of potential visually speaking.

well said

 

[twebber55]

Rowling didnt give her legacy to Disney (or whoever her excellent handlers were)...I believe...for two basic reasons:

Disney would want too much money...Disney would want too much control - and ultimately push her interests aside.

She was right on both accounts.

I m thinking the control part played a bigger role and man im glad she went with universal

 

[DDLand]

What are the rides going to be like besides the river of lights?

In the words of my good friend @rteetz:

One ride is a boat ride and the other is a simulator Soarin type ride where you ride on a banshee

So basically one really fast paced Soarin, and a boat ride where you go through several hundred million dollars worth of themeing. Including but not limited to, bioluminescent plants, audio animatronics, and passing by very expensive floating mountains. The boat actually goes inside the simulator ride's building.

Also they're adding new lights to The Safari to simulate a sunset.

Oh, and they added a Starbucks too!