Disney Is the Happiest Place on Earth, if You Can Afford It

Our

local state school in Florida is about $2000 a year for residents. For students who get good grades and SAT scores, FL offers the Bright Futures program where they will give you up to 100% of your college tuition at a state school for 4 years. I know there's other states with similar programs. I know quite a few kids who qualify for that scholarship and choose to go to a more prestigious college and live away from home which increases the costs significantly.
Yes some states are more affordable than others. I think everyone that looks at colleges knows that Florida has one of the lowest costs. We can't all live in Florida. University of Central Florida is 6500 a year. My son has a friend that goes there. Not sure what school in Florida is 2k a year? State schools in my state are 15k a year.
 
One thing I don't actually see mentioned anywhere here is that around 1/3 of the U.S. housing market is now owned by large corporations, with rental prices spiking. I make 'good' money.... But I could not afford to live on my own regardless of how 'good' that money is, because a half-decent place that isn't an hour away from my job is well over $1500 a month, which is already half of my own take-home. This does not account for electricity rates going up either, or grocery bills, or daycare expenses for those with children.

It's also a requirement to have a cellphone and internet connection now. If you lack either, you will have a significantly harder time finding a job, and in most of the U.S. public transportation is unreliable and nonexistent, which means a car is a requirement along with all of the bills that come along with it. A significant amount of jobs now also require a bachelors degree- any bachelors- in order to land an interview.

Currently the median U.S. household income is about 67,500. Mind, this includes people making 6-7/8 figures' worth of salary and salaries are going to be higher in states with higher costs of living so this income varies in effectiveness significantly between families. You cannot equate one individual experience to the experience of the rest of the U.S. 67,500 is fine in most of Michigan. It's one step from homelessness on its own in California.

Not to mention that a single significant medical event can ruin someone. If I myself become significantly injured at work and lose my income, we will lose our home.

I do not envy those who are lucky to have supportive parents and households that make great efforts to set their children up for success later in live. That is, however, not the norm for many others, including myself. We are doing the best that we are able to in this very uncertain economy and saving what we can, but it only really takes one thing to set us right back to baseline, and we do not spend excess.... Life where I'm from is just expensive, and moving is not an option.

Somewhat personally, I find the 'just scrimp and sacrifice' to be lacking in empathy in a culture that demands so much both out of our minds and bodies. People are not machines, and comes off as declaring that having financial struggles to be 'that person's' fault, rather than the fault of the economic and social system. It is also not the fault of the people born into economically disadvantageous situations that they were, or the people who have a significant financial event occur, or anyone in between. The system should be fair to everyone, no exceptions, and it isn't in its current state.

-
Anyway,

In terms of recreation spending: It's a lot harder to find any third space to go to with friends or family with reasonable expenses. Disney is one of these that's usually put under the microscope as to how unaffordable recreation and tourism is for families. It's not just Disney nickel-and-diming its customers... it's everywhere, including the way the economy itself is running. Part of the issue with recreation spending is due to travel and supply expenses. Not everyone has reasonable access to parks or other outdoor areas without a vehicle, for example.

With Disney specifically, since it's still regarded as a family oriented, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity trip (the marketing is genius here), it means that people will be inclined not only to spend the extra on hotels, food, and every other expense imaginable to make their one big trip the best that it could possibly be in their perception.... it also means that Disney can charge out the nose for services and products that are found significantly cheaper elsewhere for that same reason. If regular recreation and travel is already expensive.... why not spend more on a once-in-a-lifetime trip at that point? That's the mindset that I've been seeing as I explore around various communities trying to gauge how my own 'once-in-a-lifetime' trip should look like.

Why wouldn't they charge more if people are going to spend more?
I just got a call from a new apartment complex near our university. They are asking 1500 for a bedroom in a shared 4 bedroom off campus apartment. Uh no thanks I'll keep looking. The lowest I've seen is 900. I'm one of those supportive parents that you don't envy. I certainly don't envy myself. My brother paid 250k to put both his kids to college. Room, board and tuition was 30k a year.

Don't let them make you feel bad. What they did 50 years ago is irrelevant. Heck 10 years ago it was easy. 10 years ago I saving about 30-40% of my income. Now I'm down to 10%. It's called wages not keeping up with inflation a fancy name would be stagflation. I expect it to get worse before it hopefully gets better.
 
Yes some states are more affordable than others. I think everyone that looks at colleges knows that Florida has one of the lowest costs. We can't all live in Florida. University of Central Florida is 6500 a year. My son has a friend that goes there. Not sure what school in Florida is 2k a year? State schools in my state are 15k a year.
Seminole State prices per year for Florida Residents: Associate Degree (CRDT) · $1,915 · $583 ; Baccalaureate Degree (BACC) · $2,203 · $668 ; CCP (VOCC) · $1,678 · $324 https://www.seminolestate.edu/financial-aid/coa
 

In one post you said the economy was great. Now you have just totally contradicted yourself. Cant imagine why people save less. 😂
Where did I say today’s economy is bad? People aren’t saving because they are spending more - not necessarily because they have to. But don’t let facts get in the way of an argument. According to Economist magazine:
  • Inflation-adjusted wages have reached a record high and have grown more rapidly.
    • For all workers, hourly wages in real dollars (adjusted to September 2024 values) averaged $35.36 in September 2024, compared with $34.52 at the end of 2019. Since 2022, wages rose 1.2% annually, compared with a 0.8% rate over the 2007–2019 business cycle and a 0.9% rate between 2017–2019.
    • For nonsupervisory workers (the 80% of private-sector workers who are not managers), real hourly wages were $30.33 in September 2024, compared with $28.99 at the end of 2019. Wages rose 1.3% annually since 2022, compared with 0.8% growth over the 2007–2019 business cycle and 1.0% growth between 2017–2019.
  • Inflation-adjusted gross domestic product (GDP) growth is rising more rapidly.
    • Real GDP has risen 2.9% annually since 2022, compared with 1.8% growth between 2007–2019 and 2.5% growth between 2017–2019.
    • Per-capita real GDP has risen 2.4% annually since the end of 2022, compared with 1.1% growth between 2007–2019 and 1.9% growth between 2017–2019.
  • The unemployment rate has been lower on average, including for nearly every group of workers.
    • Overall unemployment has averaged 3.8% since 2022, compared with 6.4% between 2007–2019 and 4.0% between 2017–2019.
    • For Black workers, unemployment has averaged 5.7% since 2022, compared with 11.1% between 2007–2019 and 6.7% between 2017–2019.
    • For Hispanic workers, unemployment has averaged 4.8% since 2022, compared with 8.1% between 2007–2019 and 4.7% between 2017–2019.
  • The share of prime-age adults (those between the ages of 2554) with a job is higher on average.
    • For all workers, the prime-age employment-to-population ratio (EPOP) has averaged 80.7% since 2022, compared with 77.2% between 2007–2019 and 79.3% between 2017–2019.
    • For Black workers, the prime-age EPOP has averaged 77.8% since 2022, compared with 71.4% between 2007–2019 and 75.8% between 2017–2019.
    • For Hispanic workers, the prime-age EPOP has averaged 78.1% since 2022, compared with 74.1% between 2007–2019 and 77.0% between 2017–2019.
  • Job growth has been faster both overall and for the private sector only.
    • Overall job growth has averaged 217,000 per month since 2022, compared with 93,000 jobs between 2007–2019 and 176,000 jobs between 2017–2019.
    • Private-sector job growth has averaged 170,000 per month since 2022, compared with 91,000 jobs between 2007–2019 and 164,000 jobs between 2017–2019.
  • The rate of new business formations is far higher.
    • The rate of high-propensity applications for new businesses has averaged 144,000 monthly since 2022, compared with 102,000 between 2007–2019 and 106,000 between 2017–2019.
  • The stock market—adjusted for inflation—is higher and has grown much more rapidly.
    • The S&P 500, adjusted for inflation, averaged 4,842 since 2022, compared with an average level of 2,410 between 2007–2019 and 3,392 between 2017–2019.
    • The S&P 500 has grown 19.6% annually since 2022, compared with 6.6% growth between 2007–2019 and 10.0% between 2017–2019
 
A poor economy can certainly push people into debt. An unexpected illness or a major repair can force someone into debt if they're unemployed or just not making as much as they used to. Not all debts are due to people living above their means.

When someone brags about a record-high stock market, I always want to know how many of these rocket shares they really own and how much have they made from them, because it doesn't help me if I don’t own any of them.
Do you have a 401k or retirement plan? If so then you have a stake in the stock market - where do you think that money is invested?
60% of Americans do, so I’d say this record stock market is a blessing to a lot of people. I’m very grateful not to have to be dependent upon social security only for retirement.
 
Not everyone is born into a life of privilege. Not everyones parents have the income level to save for their kids college. Not everyone gets a scholarship. No offense, but you seem to lack any kind of empathy for people that have legitimate reasons to be struggling. Do you ever stop and ask yourself why is college so expensive and how did we get here?

In other news DCL is giving 40% off on cruises. Another sign of our peachy economy.
Maybe if more people would put money into their kids’ 529 accounts instead of spending thousands of dollars on Disney trips and cruises, kids wouldn’t be strapped with debt and would be able to buy a house. If people would put $10,000 in a mutual fund when their child is born instead of an expensive vacation, they’d have $45,000 when their child is college age.
 
Maybe if more people would put money into their kids’ 529 accounts instead of spending thousands of dollars on Disney trips and cruises, kids wouldn’t be strapped with debt and would be able to buy a house. If people would put $10,000 in a mutual fund when their child is born instead of an expensive vacation, they’d have $45,000 when their child is college age.
45k wouldn't be nearly enough. Lets try 140k. Why should parents have to work 60 hours a week and sacrifice all enjoyment to pay for their kids college. Work your whole life and then die...sounds awesome.
My parents didn't sacrifice anything for me to go to college. College was easily affordable. Again you are making an assumption that all families take expensive vacations. Most families do not take vacations much less the kind you see people talk about on these boards.
 
45k wouldn't be nearly enough. Lets try 140k. Why should parents have to work 60 hours a week and sacrifice all enjoyment to pay for their kids college. Work your whole life and then die...sounds awesome.
My parents didn't sacrifice anything for me to go to college. College was easily affordable. Again you are making an assumption that all families take expensive vacations. Most families do not take vacations much less the kind you see people talk about on these boards.
They may not take expensive vacations but they may be spending dollars unnecessarily on other unneeded items.

Ready to get fired up? They elected to have those children. Why shouldn’t they provide for them? If they elect to have them and NOT save, why is it the responsibility of universities to be affordable?
 
Do you have a 401k or retirement plan? If so then you have a stake in the stock market - where do you think that money is invested?
60% of Americans do, so I’d say this record stock market is a blessing to a lot of people. I’m very grateful not to have to be dependent upon social security only for retirement.
You can't touch your 401k until your almost 60. No guarantee we won't see it drop 50% again before we retire. I've seen at least 4 of those drops and I'm not retired yet. If you knew anything about the economy you would know that everything is predicated on what the debt market does. The bond market is a lot bigger than the equities market.
 
They may not take expensive vacations but they may be spending dollars unnecessarily on other unneeded items.

Ready to get fired up? They elected to have those children. Why shouldn’t they provide for them? If they elect to have them and NOT save, why is it the responsibility of universities to be affordable?
Why would that fire me up? A lot of young people are choosing not to have children. That's going to have a very negative affect on the economy in 30 years. It's kind of sad actually.
 
Why would that fire me up? A lot of young people are choosing not to have children. That's going to have a very negative affect on the economy in 30 years. It's kind of sad actually.
I agree with this point. The decrease in population will cause harm for those that are expecting SSI. Which is why people need to prepare.
 
Has anyone been to Vegas this year?The "slump" doesn't appear to affect the high-end resorts. It's the lower-tiered places that feel the hit.
Having stayed at the upper end resorts, Wynn/Encore multiple times, no they are not suffering the same as the others BUT don't confuse that to mean that they aren't still feeling lower occupancy rates. We went last month, hadn't been since 2023 (well both of us as my husband had been several times for work) and it was the same offer as it was during the pandemic..well once the tourism rebounded (they had increased in 2023 the promotional deal from $119 per night to $129). The rate was $129 per night. However, what had gotten stupid high was the resort fee which was $50-$55 (can't remember which one) which were last I want to say $40-$45. Now Wynn/Encore still offer free overnight parking (they used to offer free parking regardless) for hotel guests but that is also part of the issue. They also felt more confident I think in enticement as our offer in 2023 included a $125 resort credit (which we used towards dining) and this time it was only $25 total so they didn't feel like they needed to add as much incentive to get people to come back but they still needed to have the lower room rate per night.
Now food is terribly priced.
TBH though we haven't noticed much of an increase in food pricing since 2019. We went in 2017, 2019, 2021 (twice??), 2022 and 2023 as well as 2025. Buffets, well what are left, those I do believe have gone up a lot. Alcoholic drinks yes/no I mean they are pushing $25-$26 for a drink but that isn't all that much more than what we spent over time. For you you said you hadn't been in 15 years well yes that much be a sticker shock. The first time I went was in 2009 and I remember thinking a $13 rum and coke was high. I didn't go back to Vegas until 2017. If I were to compare 2009 to 2025 yes that would be a large change, but not so much if I'm comparing in recent years. We did used to go to this very cheap place called Ocean One famous for its extremely cheap lunches starting at like $5 but that closed down when their lease expired and we had already moved onto other places to eat. When I look at the patterns over our trips people aren't going to Vegas so much anymore for cheap food, instead they want a variety of higher-ish end food choices. Many people say they go to Vegas for the food. I think that's just a change in what Vegas has represented over the years. Instead of a cheap, gambling show-filled destination it's adjusted over time to be less of that. Now for the show aspect that is 1000% pandemic killed the show aspect of Vegas, it really did a number on it. Concerts/residency of stars have taken over and although the Sphere addition killed even more free parking options it has done extremely well in attracting people to go to Vegas for concerts.
 
I agree with this point. The decrease in population will cause harm for those that are expecting SSI. Which is why people need to prepare.
A country of predominately old people is not going to work. You do need people that can work, build things and take care of all the old people. Do you think maybe things shouldn't have gotten so unaffordable that young people don't want kids.
 
It's funny you mention Vegas because I was going to plan a trip there this Fall. I haven't been in 25 years. The hotel prices on the weekend are crazy high.
The weekends have ALWAYS been high. A Friday-Saturday rate can be extremely different than a Sunday-Thursday rate (although sometimes Thursday can still be up there). This is why we have gone to Vegas during the week or started our trip on Sunday (though parking rates and other things still often count Sunday as a weekend rate). Many people go to Vegas just for the weekend, that's how it's been for decades, a short weekend trip for many, pricing follows. Vegas is also very sensitive to events in terms of pricing. It's almost always the case that if you're seeing really high rates specifically for certain dates when the weekend/weekday before it's much more reasonable, there's something going on, a big concert, a big event, a boxing match, etc. And in the case of F1 races now I would not in any way suggest going leading up to the race and the race weekend (which is in November).
 
Having stayed at the upper end resorts, Wynn/Encore multiple times, no they are not suffering the same as the others BUT don't confuse that to mean that they aren't still feeling lower occupancy rates. We went last month, hadn't been since 2023 (well both of us as my husband had been several times for work) and it was the same offer as it was during the pandemic..well once the tourism rebounded (they had increased in 2023 the promotional deal from $119 per night to $129). The rate was $129 per night. However, what had gotten stupid high was the resort fee which was $50-$55 (can't remember which one) which were last I want to say $40-$45. Now Wynn/Encore still offer free overnight parking (they used to offer free parking regardless) for hotel guests but that is also part of the issue. They also felt more confident I think in enticement as our offer in 2023 included a $125 resort credit (which we used towards dining) and this time it was only $25 total so they didn't feel like they needed to add as much incentive to get people to come back but they still needed to have the lower room rate per night.

TBH though we haven't noticed much of an increase in food pricing since 2019. We went in 2017, 2019, 2021 (twice??), 2022 and 2023 as well as 2025. Buffets, well what are left, those I do believe have gone up a lot. Alcoholic drinks yes/no I mean they are pushing $25-$26 for a drink but that isn't all that much more than what we spent over time. For you you said you hadn't been in 15 years well yes that much be a sticker shock. The first time I went was in 2009 and I remember thinking a $13 rum and coke was high. I didn't go back to Vegas until 2017. If I were to compare 2009 to 2025 yes that would be a large change, but not so much if I'm comparing in recent years. We did used to go to this very cheap place called Ocean One famous for its extremely cheap lunches starting at like $5 but that closed down when their lease expired and we had already moved onto other places to eat. When I look at the patterns over our trips people aren't going to Vegas so much anymore for cheap food, instead they want a variety of higher-ish end food choices. Many people say they go to Vegas for the food. I think that's just a change in what Vegas has represented over the years. Instead of a cheap, gambling show-filled destination it's adjusted over time to be less of that. Now for the show aspect that is 1000% pandemic killed the show aspect of Vegas, it really did a number on it. Concerts/residency of stars have taken over and although the Sphere addition killed even more free parking options it has done extremely well in attracting people to go to Vegas for concerts.
Were you there on the weekend? I haven't been able to find those kind of prices on the weekend.

I see you just answered that.
 
Were you there on the weekend? I haven't been able to find those kind of prices on the weekend.

I see you just answered that.
For the Wynn/Encore offer if we went on the weekend it would have been $259/night. Food pricing however doesn't really shift that way (weekend vs weekday) with the exception of things like buffet pricing and perhaps special dining offers like a multi-course meal, etc.

These are special offers sent to us because we've stayed there and they want you back. MGM has sent us offers as well fairly consistently but we vastly prefer Wynn/Encore. Fontainebleau sent us offers last month for $100/night (plus whatever resort fees there were) though which is on the same level as Wynn/Encore overall speaking although we have not actually stayed there. We did however have dinner there.
 
Where did I say today’s economy is bad? People aren’t saving because they are spending more - not necessarily because they have to. But don’t let facts get in the way of an argument. According to Economist magazine:
  • Inflation-adjusted wages have reached a record high and have grown more rapidly.
    • For all workers, hourly wages in real dollars (adjusted to September 2024 values) averaged $35.36 in September 2024, compared with $34.52 at the end of 2019. Since 2022, wages rose 1.2% annually, compared with a 0.8% rate over the 2007–2019 business cycle and a 0.9% rate between 2017–2019.
    • For nonsupervisory workers (the 80% of private-sector workers who are not managers), real hourly wages were $30.33 in September 2024, compared with $28.99 at the end of 2019. Wages rose 1.3% annually since 2022, compared with 0.8% growth over the 2007–2019 business cycle and 1.0% growth between 2017–2019.
  • Inflation-adjusted gross domestic product (GDP) growth is rising more rapidly.
    • Real GDP has risen 2.9% annually since 2022, compared with 1.8% growth between 2007–2019 and 2.5% growth between 2017–2019.
    • Per-capita real GDP has risen 2.4% annually since the end of 2022, compared with 1.1% growth between 2007–2019 and 1.9% growth between 2017–2019.
  • The unemployment rate has been lower on average, including for nearly every group of workers.
    • Overall unemployment has averaged 3.8% since 2022, compared with 6.4% between 2007–2019 and 4.0% between 2017–2019.
    • For Black workers, unemployment has averaged 5.7% since 2022, compared with 11.1% between 2007–2019 and 6.7% between 2017–2019.
    • For Hispanic workers, unemployment has averaged 4.8% since 2022, compared with 8.1% between 2007–2019 and 4.7% between 2017–2019.
  • The share of prime-age adults (those between the ages of 2554) with a job is higher on average.
    • For all workers, the prime-age employment-to-population ratio (EPOP) has averaged 80.7% since 2022, compared with 77.2% between 2007–2019 and 79.3% between 2017–2019.
    • For Black workers, the prime-age EPOP has averaged 77.8% since 2022, compared with 71.4% between 2007–2019 and 75.8% between 2017–2019.
    • For Hispanic workers, the prime-age EPOP has averaged 78.1% since 2022, compared with 74.1% between 2007–2019 and 77.0% between 2017–2019.
  • Job growth has been faster both overall and for the private sector only.
    • Overall job growth has averaged 217,000 per month since 2022, compared with 93,000 jobs between 2007–2019 and 176,000 jobs between 2017–2019.
    • Private-sector job growth has averaged 170,000 per month since 2022, compared with 91,000 jobs between 2007–2019 and 164,000 jobs between 2017–2019.
  • The rate of new business formations is far higher.
    • The rate of high-propensity applications for new businesses has averaged 144,000 monthly since 2022, compared with 102,000 between 2007–2019 and 106,000 between 2017–2019.
  • The stock market—adjusted for inflation—is higher and has grown much more rapidly.
    • The S&P 500, adjusted for inflation, averaged 4,842 since 2022, compared with an average level of 2,410 between 2007–2019 and 3,392 between 2017–2019.
    • The S&P 500 has grown 19.6% annually since 2022, compared with 6.6% growth between 2007–2019 and 10.0% between 2017–2019
So your basing your economic analysis on one article. I think you might want to dive a little deeper.

I wonder what's going to happen to all that debt? What normally happens?
 
They don’t build starter homes much anymore. So people rely on what already exist.
True but even if they did the pricing is nowhere near what a starter home would have been many years ago. My county defines "attainable housing" as $300K or less and it is very difficult to find that, even in existing homes. My mom's home was valued around $150K pre-2015 when the housing market here was a buyer's market (it switched to sellers in 2015). Presently it is $316K (as of Jan this year) and she could probably sell it for a decent amount higher than that (her home is a 3b/2b split level 1960s home with very little updates).

Since 2018 the number of homes $300K or less in the county..remember that's just considered "attainable" dropped 75% (they said 100,000 homes in 2018 fit that definition, in 2024 it was down to 25,000). Renting isn't as feasible as one would think either as they put it rents increase 35% from 2018 to 2023 while median income only increased 18%. I'm not sure what the figures are now though. The average sales price of my county back in March was $557,000.
 








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