Disney Genie announcement

[ENJDisneyFan]

Am I correct that buying Genie+ may mean only one attraction per day -- for example, party of four enter, they want Smugglers Run, time available is 6:30pm, once they use that they try for another attraction and nothing left?

That’s what I’m thinking. Not good!

 

[ckb_nc]

Am I correct that buying Genie+ may mean only one attraction per day -- for example, party of four enter, they want Smugglers Run, time available is 6:30pm, once they use that they try for another attraction and nothing left?

Could be - if after 6:30 there is no more availability. The early bid will get the worm

 

[Cabius]

There's so much going on with this announcement -- some good, some bad, depending on what type of guest you are and what you value. Here's my attempt to dissect the good and bad of the changes:

Shift from 60/30-day booking window to day-of booking
The 60/30-day booking window allowed the savviest of us to snag great FP opportunities, but at the expense of less savvy guests. As an on-site über-planner this change hurts me, but I also get wanting to tilt the scales to the benefit of newer or less savvy guests. Plus, even when I gain an advantage from the system, having to plan every day two months in advance is a real pain.

Good for: less savvy guests; anybody who doesn't want to plan their day months in advance; off-site guests (including locals/APs)

Bad for: savvy on-site guests

Shift from 3 passes/ticket to 1 at a time
As with the item above, the goal here is to increase the availability of LLPs for guests who show up for the day and learn about the system for the first time. With savvy guests snagging 3 FPs months in advance, there wasn't much left day-of. But with passes booked one at a time, there should be greater availability for those who pay for the system.

Good for: casual guests; greater LLP availability throughout the day

Bad for: savviest on-site guests who previously snagged all the good rides

$15/person/day up-charge
Just how good/bad this is really depends on how many people use the option. There is this weird dynamic where as more people purchase it, it becomes less valuable (compared to the old status quo) but more necessary.

• If only 10% of guests pay for Genie+, then the Lightning Lane will not take a lot of capacity, and Standby will move relatively quickly.
  
  
• But if 70% of guests buy Genie+ then Standby queues will just crawl along like they used to. (Sites like TouringPlans have long reported that FP+ was allocated ~70% of capacity for most rides).

So if adoption is low, buying Genie+ might give you a real advantage versus the old FP+ system. But if adoption is high, you're stuck paying more money for less value than you had before, only because the alternative is even worse.

Good for: Disney's profitability; guests willing to pay for it (if adoption is low)

Bad for: guests who don't buy it; guests who do buy it (if adoption is high); locals/APs

Removal of top-tier attractions / Separate up-charge
Again, the actual guest up-take for these add-on LLPs will make a big difference to how this plays out.

Completely eliminating FP/LL for top-tier attractions would increase the throughput of the Standby queues. That would theoretically reduce wait times for Standby. We can have long arguments about whether that's a good strategy or not, and whether the induced demand would just cancel out the increased throughput altogether. But it's arguably not insane.

But with the addition of the individual Lighting Lane Pass, some of that throughput will be taken back out, driving Standby waits back up for those unwilling or unable to pay the up-charge.

• If guest up-take is low, and only 10% of capacity goes to the Lightning Lane, the impact is basically similar to eliminating FP+, for good or for ill.
  
  
• If guest up-take is high, and 70% of capacity goes to the Lightning Lane, we're back to the wait time dynamic we had with FP+, just a little bit poorer.

So again: if adoption is low, this scheme can provide some benefit to those willing to pay for it. But if up-take is high, it ends up providing the same value as the old FP+ but at substantial additional cost. Not everybody can be at the front of the line.

In particular, depending on how much capacity sets aside for Rise of the Resistance it could become de facto necessary to pay to ride. If enough guests are willing to pay for access to take 90% of capacity, Disney will give 90% of capacity to paying guests and only 10% for boarding group lotteries. This could get ugly.

Good for: Disney's profitability; guests willing to pay for it (if adoption is low)

Bad for: guests who don't buy it; guests who do buy it (if adoption is high); anybody hoping to ride RotR for free.

===

Personally I prefer the shift to one-at-a-time day-of booking, because even though I benefited from the old scheme I think this model is more fair and provides a better day-of guest experience, especially for casual / once-in-a-lifetime guests.

I find the up-charge schemes to be an ugly cash-grab that likely won't deliver on the promises about an improved guest experience -- but WILL deliver more of our dollars to Disney's coffers.

Ultimately we'll need to see what guest up-take looks like and how much capacity Disney devotes to these Lightning Lanes to see how it looks in the real-world. How many will purchase? Will they offer it for free to on-site guests at some point? Or even Deluxe/DVC only?

The best-case scenario for guests is that up-take is minimal, so paying guests gain a real advantage for their dollars at minimal expense to the rest. But that doesn't align with Disney's profit motive, so... I'm not particularly enthusiastic

 

[RamieGee]

Am I completely out of my mind or did the Genie thing originally claim to grant wishes?? Like 3 wishes per guest? Did I imagine that or wasn't that a thing? Or at least a rumored thing.

I was wondering the same thing…wasn’t that a frequently talked about feature? What are the wishes?

 

[Opie100]

I know lots of folks are upset that you can’t book any in advance like FP+, but this works great for those who tend to book last minute trips. It also gives everyone an equal shot for those LLs on the day. I really loved this at DLR.

I would like to see them allow you to stack LL bookings like they did with MP. That was amazing!!

With MP, you did not get to choose your return time either, you just got the next available time. But you could “refresh” and often earlier times would pop up (presumably from others canceling FPs, but maybe they were dropping more FPs at times based on real time ride conditions). So the folks who are upset about that aspect, once you become savvy with it (and the people on this board certainly will), you will find that you don’t have to take that return time of 3 hours from now, usually!

Last minute trips it only helps if you arrive at the park at 6am and don't mind waiting in the regular line for more attractions, since you may only get one attraction on your Genie+. Having to continually "refresh" to get earlier times means we spend much of our vacation time staring at our phones, something we are coming to Disney to avoid.

 

[Miffy]

@Cabius: As someone who was there in May (no FP+, no G+, all standby except for RotR BGs), I can tell you that lines for the tier 1 attractions we were most interested in were LONG. Very very very long. Necessitating RD every day, something we don't ordinarily do.

So there's utterly nothing, I don't think, that could make standby lines, other than standby lines for not-so-popular attractions, move quickly. Having the LL will make the standby queue even slower.

G+ has too much of a gambling aspect to it for me. I mean, I could get G+, get my first desired attraction in, and then nothing else I'm really interested in would be available at times I want to ride. I hope this isn't the case, but it could happen this way. Then I've paid $15 for one ride. Or, if that ride breaks down, maybe zero rides.

 

[ckb_nc]

As a person who went to DLR and WDW many times (pre-COVID) and enjoyed the MaxPass system at DLR, this sounds similar. For MP, you could add it to your multi-day ticket all at once when you purchased the ticket, or you could add it day by day once you were there. So you could choose the days that you wanted to pay for MP and choose days that it might not be worth it to you (maybe arrival or departure days which would be short and not “worth it”). Maybe Genie + will be the same.

I know lots of folks are upset that you can’t book any in advance like FP+, but this works great for those who tend to book last minute trips. It also gives everyone an equal shot for those LLs on the day. I really loved this at DLR.

I would like to see them allow you to stack LL bookings like they did with MP. That was amazing!!

With MP, you did not get to choose your return time either, you just got the next available time. But you could “refresh” and often earlier times would pop up (presumably from others canceling FPs, but maybe they were dropping more FPs at times based on real time ride conditions). So the folks who are upset about that aspect, once you become savvy with it (and the people on this board certainly will), you will find that you don’t have to take that return time of 3 hours from now, usually!

MP was really well done. I thought classic FP and MP was a sweet spot. I wanted MP for WDW. But what I am not excited about is the extra tier 1. It did not prevent day trippers from using FP.

 

[trmiv]

As a very close local, it changes things significantly for us that I need to seriously consider the value of even having an annual pass anymore. It used to be I could refresh the app during the day and grab 3 nice fast passes for that evening. We’d head over, ride, eat dinner, ride, get dessert, ride, do some shopping, leave. It kept waits minimal and allowed us to enjoy the rest of the park in the short time we usually stay for. Now a 3-4 hour evening trip turns into a waiting in line for the majority of it, meaning we probably don’t bother with the extra stuff like a nice dinner or shopping. Since we’ve gone so frequently there’s zero chance I’m spending $60 each time for a family of four to ride rides we’ve been on so many times. I truly enjoy the rides, but not enough to pay additionally each time just to avoid the absurd waits. Yes not riding rides at all is an option and for my wife and I that’s fine sometimes, but the kids want to go on rides.

If they allow the service to be added on with a yearly fee to annual passes or add a new higher pass tier with it included I wouldn’t be happy about it, but I’d probably pay for it. I’d even be semi Ok with it if it was like Universal where it’s free after 4 for the top pass or whatever. But the chances of me spending $60 for a family of 4 each time or paying for top tier rides is pretty much nil. The end result is we will spend less time in the parks because it feels like a chore. So we won’t spend on dinners, desserts and shopping like we usually do. In April when our passes are due for renewal again I may just let them lapse this time.

 

[4Hawks]

Assume family of four; four (4) Disney World park days:

• Old way: Fast Passes - Free; planning ahead allowed
• Tier 2 new way: Genie: $15/per person = $60 per day x 4 days = $240
• Tier 1 new way: Lightning Pass (LP): $15/per ride (approx.) x 2 per day = $30 per person x 4 people = $120 x 4 days = $480
• Total new way: $720 ($180 more per person per trip for family of 4); planning ahead not allowed

Note: LP attractions could be more expensive

The Lighting Pass price is per person?! I hadn't even thought of that

 

[ENJDisneyFan]

The Lighting Pass price is per person?! I hadn't even thought of that

Yep, per person

 

[TangledHairDon'tCare]

From Josh D’Amaro
“What our guests were telling us was that they wanted more simplicity and spontaneity. They wanted it to be a more convenient tool for them. We’ve done that with the Genie suite of products, so you don’t need to be scrambling and worried. Let the tool do the work for you. And then, show up and enjoy yourself. It’s that idea of simplicity that we love at Disney, and it’s what our fans told us they want. So this applies perfectly to Walt Disney World.”
Sounds like they were definitely responding to feedback about how much advance planning was required for a trip.

https://**************.net/2021/08/disney-no-advance-lightning-lanes-rwb1/

 

[EPCOT-O.G.]

From Josh D’Amaro
“What our guests were telling us was that they wanted more simplicity and spontaneity. They wanted it to be a more convenient tool for them. We’ve done that with the Genie suite of products, so you don’t need to be scrambling and worried. Let the tool do the work for you. And then, show up and enjoy yourself. It’s that idea of simplicity that we love at Disney, and it’s what our fans told us they want. So this applies perfectly to Walt Disney World.”
Sounds like they were definitely responding to feedback about how much advance planning was required for a trip.

https://**************.net/2021/08/disney-no-advance-lightning-lanes-rwb1/

They could have easily done the same thing on the existing FP infrastructure without adding an additional cost.

 

[Opie100]

From Josh D’Amaro
“What our guests were telling us was that they wanted more simplicity and spontaneity. They wanted it to be a more convenient tool for them. We’ve done that with the Genie suite of products, so you don’t need to be scrambling and worried. Let the tool do the work for you. And then, show up and enjoy yourself. It’s that idea of simplicity that we love at Disney, and it’s what our fans told us they want. So this applies perfectly to Walt Disney World.”
Sounds like they were definitely responding to feedback about how much advance planning was required for a trip.

https://**************.net/2021/08/disney-no-advance-lightning-lanes-rwb1/

I believe there are ways to accommodate both planners and non-planners without making people arrive at 6am for a small selection of advertised attractions.

 

[CaliforniaGirl09]

We all knew FP+ at WDW would be monetized. However, I didn’t think they’d go this “all in.” I would’ve kept the fastpass name. My simplified system would be:

Everyone gets 1 FP+ This is for offsite guests. Book 7 days ahead. You already have your park pass and dining planned; weather forecasts are getting better at this point. You’re excited the trip is only a week away. Includes headliners still.

Staying at Disney? You get 2 FP+ 7 days ahead. Maybe 14 days? 3 for deluxe snd DVC. This incentivizes staying on property, which is a large revenue stream with, I’d assume, a high margin?

You want extra? OK, you pay per ride while you’re in the park. It’s called a Genie Wish. Maybe every once in awhile one pops up for free, like magic.

Not saying this is great (I’d still prefer the old system) but it would make a ton and everyone feels they’re getting something. There’s no 7AM wake ups except for VQ.

Either way, ticket prices go up so build that $15pp they’re charging for Genie+ right into the ticket and then even extra €£¥$ is earned through the Genie wish.

The perception of value is important. The new system they unveiled today I think will make them a ton but sour some guests taste, and if the standby lines are very long—“first timers” will still come back and say it’s crowded and (more) expensive to their friends and family.

Something like this would have been much better IMO. The 7 am each day really sucks.

The whole thing creates at atmosphere of competitiveness that doesn't sound healthy at all.

Yep, someone in the DLR forum dubbed it the "competitive sport" of getting a boarding group. That's how it feels. I woke up every day for my sister and brother in law to get them passes when they went to DLR. They had a hard time with it even with detailed instructions.

What I haven't seen factored in is the park reservation issue. This makes choosing a park even more difficult and could drive people to book certain parks every day solely for the purpose of having more chance to secure a certain ride or it could also hurt any advantage you have of choosing a certain park for a ride if the paid service opens up all parks at 7 am (on site guests) to rides at any park (not just the one you have a reservation at).

IOW another layer for the competitive sport.

 

[TangledHairDon'tCare]

I believe there are ways to accommodate both planners and non-planners without making people arrive at 5-6am.

Why would you arrive at 5-6am?

 

[garris3404]

Disney is nickel and diming (but with golden nickels and dimes) us to death for stuff that used to be free to all. Extremely frustrated!

 

[MJ6987]

From Josh D’Amaro
“What our guests were telling us was that they wanted more simplicity and spontaneity. They wanted it to be a more convenient tool for them. We’ve done that with the Genie suite of products, so you don’t need to be scrambling and worried. Let the tool do the work for you. And then, show up and enjoy yourself. It’s that idea of simplicity that we love at Disney, and it’s what our fans told us they want. So this applies perfectly to Walt Disney World.”
Sounds like they were definitely responding to feedback about how much advance planning was required for a trip.

https://**************.net/2021/08/disney-no-advance-lightning-lanes-rwb1/

Yeah, feels like a lot of this is to level the playing field so that planners don't have so much advantage over people who just turn up

 

[ckb_nc]

Yep, per person

That to me is the real kick in the nuts. I agree with the math of the OP - and what is to suggest some sort of surge pricing? Does say Tron cost more Christmas Day than mid-September (why not - surge pricing is done here locally with the toll roads).

We will miss FP+ if only for the ability to plan late days. My wife is a firm no.

 

[JoJoGirl]

Soon coming to Disney Genie:

* $10 per day for "express walking lane access" throughout park

Hey, I would pay $20 for that!

 

[itf]

That to me is the real kick in the nuts. I agree with the math of the OP - and what is to suggest some sort of surge pricing? Does say Tron cost more Christmas Day than mid-September (why not - surge pricing is done here locally with the toll roads).

We will miss FP+ if only for the ability to plan late days. My wife is a firm no.

They've already said 'variable' pricing, so essentially surge pricing. My only consolation is we're booked for 'quiet' weeks end of Aug/beginning of Sept.