Disney Genie+ and ILL$ Details & FAQ - Launches 10/19 at WDW, Paid "FastPass" at WDW and Disneyland (date TBD)

[Liquidice]

Yeah I expect we will know the true value it next summer (hopefully Corona will be in the rearview by then), if lines jump in wait time, Genie becomes a value, if they don't, it just illustrates how fractured FP+ was, and I will have a good laugh at everyone's expense who went to die on the hill for FP+

Agree, I'm definitely surprised in a positive way so far at how G+ has not really seemed to impact the standby wait times significantly (except for maybe Peter Pan). I'm still not sure if that is just a result of the crowd levels being lower or like you said FP+ was just "oversold".

My opinion - they could have "fixed" FP+ though without needing to charge for it, but I'm interested to see how this plays out.

If the trend continues, I think not paying for G+ is a totally viable option, and actually might be "better" in looking at some of the LL availability for G+ rides right now (granted it is the end of the day) - it seems like many parks run out of their LL allocation quite a bit before close (right now at HS, which is estimated to have a 6/10 crowd level, ToT, Slinky Dog and of course RoTR are sold out, and rides like RnR are over 2 hours away for a LL or a ~30 minute wait). Of course if you buy G+ you always have the option of waiting in Standby, how much value you get will depend on how many LL's you can get.

 

[Jrb1979]

Agree, I'm definitely surprised in a positive way so far at how G+ has not really seemed to impact the standby wait times significantly (except for maybe Peter Pan). I'm still not sure if that is just a result of the crowd levels being lower or like you said FP+ was just "oversold".

My opinion - they could have "fixed" FP+ though without needing to charge for it, but I'm interested to see how this plays out.

If the trend continues, I think not paying for G+ is a totally viable option, and actually might be "better" in looking at some of the LL availability for G+ rides right now (granted it is the end of the day) - it seems like many parks run out of their LL allocation quite a bit before close (right now at HS, which is estimated to have a 6/10 crowd level, ToT, Slinky Dog and of course RoTR are sold out, and rides like RnR are over 2 hours away for a LL or a ~30 minute wait). Of course if you buy G+ you always have the option of waiting in Standby, how much value you get will depend on how many LL's you can get.

Their was no way to fix FP+. Every other park has a paid skip the line system. I don't understand the complaints when it's $15. Compare that to other parks and it's good deal. IMO I think the reason people complain has more to do with not being able to pre plan your day.

 

[Liquidice]

Their was no way to fix FP+. Every other park has a paid skip the line system. I don't understand the complaints when it's $15. Compare that to other parks and it's good deal. IMO I think the reason people complain has more to do with not being able to pre plan your day.

I think it is wrong to assume there was "no way" to fix FP+. I think saying other parks have a pay to skip the line system doesn't justify the statement that there was "no way" to fix it.

I'm not talking about how much it is (which it can get expensive depending on how many people you have with you, and how many days you opt to pay for it), and I'm not comparing it to competitors either. I'm just saying they could have taken FP+ and made changes to it to improve things.

For example, Genie+ allows you to only ride each ride using LL once per day. You could have introduced this with FP+ too. You could also have still charged for Fastpasses but provided 1 for free as an example.

You could also have limited the amount of FP+'s available to similar levels of Genie+ and limited it to 1 or 2 free, still given the 60-day advantage to on-site guests and 30 days for everyone else. Hold some % of FP+ for same-day reservations too. You don't have to guarantee that everyone gets a FP either, but you can improve the chances by limiting how many. You can improve the Standby lines by limiting how many Fastpasses you distribute too.

There are lots of ideas that have been floated around about how to change the way FP+ operated to improve the way the system worked.

None of that really matters anymore though since we have Genie+ now, and FP+ isn't coming back.

At this point, it is what it is - I'm not complaining about the charge, I'm just not planning to pay for it. I'm actually optimistic that you can get by without paying for G+ or ILL$ through rope dropping strategies and planning the rest of your day out well.

But, for a family of 4, if you think paying $60 more per day isn't a big deal, and if you paid for it every day - $420 more on a 7 day vacation is a good deal and not expensive, then great - but I don't see it as one, that is at least $60 less than I had before, more depending on how many days I do this. If I did it, I probably would opt to not pay for something else (like food and merch).

The problem I have with comparing it to competitors is that Disney is supposed to be the market leader - if they keep playing "me too" and copying competitors, they won't be the market leader anymore - they'll just be another theme park.

 

[kimwoje]

I haven’t used G+ and am not balking at the cost. My biggest issue is going into the day without my must do rides being guaranteed, as they were with FP+. I wouldn’t mind spending the $$ but I do want to ensure I get to ride the most important rides to me if I am spending that $$ and only going to WDW once a year at best (haven’t been since July 2019).

 

[Liquidice]

I haven’t used G+ and am not balking at the cost. My biggest issue is going into the day without my must do rides being guaranteed, as they were with FP+. I wouldn’t mind spending the $$ but I do want to ensure I get to ride the most important rides to me if I am spending that $$ and only going to WDW once a year at best (haven’t been since July 2019).

Depending on what rides you want to guarantee you'll get, I think you'd be OK getting 3 guaranteed rides, whether you buy G+ or not.

Just food for thought - if the 2 ILL$ rides are your "must dos", you can opt to pay for both of them and select a time slot to ride them in the morning. Most ILL$ rides don't sell out until 10am or later.

If you're staying onsite, you can buy your ILL$ rides at 7am, and that should guarantee you ride them.

Also if you're staying on site, the 30 minute rope drop advantage means you should be able to get on 1 ride with a short wait. That could be an ILL$ ride.

FP+ gave you 3 rides pre-selected, so I'm going to assume you have 3 must-do rides... also going to assume you're staying on site.

Using Hollywood Studios as an example, lets say Rise of the Resistance, Slinky Dog Dash and Mickey's Runaway Railway are your must-do attractions. Here is what I would do... if I didn't want to pay for anything.

1. Get to the park at 8am, for rope drop.
1. 8:30am - Rope drop, Go to Rise of the Resistance, wait time should be ~45 mins or less (assuming it doesn't break down).
2. 9:15am - Head to Mickey's Runaway Railway, expected wait is roughly 34 minutes.
3. 10:00am - Hit up Slinky Dog Dash, expected wait time is 45 minutes, or you can wait and ride Slinky Dog after 5pm where wait times should be 45 minutes or less as well.

Note: The expected wait times are not the posted wait times, they're estimates based on what the actual wait times of past riders has told us (using the Lines App).

If you bought G+, I would try to select Slinky Dog as your first attraction, regardless of what time it gave you, and still rope drop RoTR and then do MMRR.

If you choose to buy the ILL$ for RoTR and MMRR, I would rope drop Slinky Dog, and then either not buy G+ or if you bought G+, I would then select whatever ride was my 4th must do.

If your 3 must do rides are not ILL$ rides, then I would rope drop whichever is the most popular (like Slinky Dog) at 8:30am, then try to ride your next must-do ride immediately after, and then wait until 5pm or later to ride your next must-do ride or monitor wait times and see if here is an deal time before 5pm to ride. In between you can still choose to ride other rides. If you buy G+, you can select your first ride at 7am, rope drop a second ride and then try to hit your 3rd ride right after the first.

Yes, it is maybe a little more stressful if this is your once in awhile trip and you really want to hit your must do's since you can't pre-select them like FP+. I would consider investing in a TouringPlans subscription for $12/year and use their Lines App to help, it can even plan out your day for you and make sure you get on all of the rides you want. It should help remove some of the stress. The Lines App doesn't currently incorporate strategies for G+ or ILL$, although they do allow you to input a G+ or ILL$ time and it will optimize around it. They will in the future add strategies for ILL$ and LL.

 

[qwerty2k]

There offering genie + to uk guests for 14 days for the price of 9. Better than nothing

Where did you see that? On disneyholidays.co.uk they are offering genie+ for £6.99 a day which is around a $5 discount per day.

 

[emilymad]

If the trend continues, I think not paying for G+ is a totally viable option, and actually might be "better" in looking at some of the LL availability for G+ rides right now (granted it is the end of the day) - it seems like many parks run out of their LL allocation quite a bit before close (right now at HS, which is estimated to have a 6/10 crowd level, ToT, Slinky Dog and of course RoTR are sold out, and rides like RnR are over 2 hours away for a LL or a ~30 minute wait). Of course if you buy G+ you always have the option of waiting in Standby, how much value you get will depend on how many LL's you can get.

To me this is the biggest question. If on moderate crowd days the LL are selling out early that doesn't help Disney sell G+. On higher crowd days will Disney allocate more LL availability? At the current availability, HS would be sold out of LL for most attractions shortly after opening on Thanksgiving or Christmas.

 

[mom2rtk]

To me this is the biggest question. If on moderate crowd days the LL are selling out early that doesn't help Disney sell G+. On higher crowd days will Disney allocate more LL availability? At the current availability, HS would be sold out of LL for most attractions shortly after opening on Thanksgiving or Christmas.

Solid question. I don't trust Disney to resist selling more. Which could make them less valuable because the LL will slow down. Or more valuable because the standby will be even longer.

Of course there are some cases where they aren't running things at full capacity and plan to in peak crowds, but not sure how much that goes on so can't quantify.

 

[Jrb1979]

I think it is wrong to assume there was "no way" to fix FP+. I think saying other parks have a pay to skip the line system doesn't justify the statement that there was "no way" to fix it.

I'm not talking about how much it is (which it can get expensive depending on how many people you have with you, and how many days you opt to pay for it), and I'm not comparing it to competitors either. I'm just saying they could have taken FP+ and made changes to it to improve things.

For example, Genie+ allows you to only ride each ride using LL once per day. You could have introduced this with FP+ too. You could also have still charged for Fastpasses but provided 1 for free as an example.

You could also have limited the amount of FP+'s available to similar levels of Genie+ and limited it to 1 or 2 free, still given the 60-day advantage to on-site guests and 30 days for everyone else. Hold some % of FP+ for same-day reservations too. You don't have to guarantee that everyone gets a FP either, but you can improve the chances by limiting how many. You can improve the Standby lines by limiting how many Fastpasses you distribute too.

There are lots of ideas that have been floated around about how to change the way FP+ operated to improve the way the system worked.

None of that really matters anymore though since we have Genie+ now, and FP+ isn't coming back.

At this point, it is what it is - I'm not complaining about the charge, I'm just not planning to pay for it. I'm actually optimistic that you can get by without paying for G+ or ILL$ through rope dropping strategies and planning the rest of your day out well.

But, for a family of 4, if you think paying $60 more per day isn't a big deal, and if you paid for it every day - $420 more on a 7 day vacation is a good deal and not expensive, then great - but I don't see it as one, that is at least $60 less than I had before, more depending on how many days I do this. If I did it, I probably would opt to not pay for something else (like food and merch).

The problem I have with comparing it to competitors is that Disney is supposed to be the market leader - if they keep playing "me too" and copying competitors, they won't be the market leader anymore - they'll just be another theme park.

They haven't been the market leader in awhile. Their competitor down the road saw their most profitable quarter since Covid started, while Disney struggles. With the cuts as well they are just another theme park. IMO nostalgia is carrying the parks right now.

 

[Liquidice]

To me this is the biggest question. If on moderate crowd days the LL are selling out early that doesn't help Disney sell G+. On higher crowd days will Disney allocate more LL availability? At the current availability, HS would be sold out of LL for most attractions shortly after opening on Thanksgiving or Christmas.

Its a good question, we'll have to see what happens. I hope Disney doesn't simply increase LL allocations to the point where it is just like FP+ and anyone waiting in the standby line has a miserable experience.

They haven't been the market leader in awhile. Their competitor down the road saw their most profitable quarter since Covid started, while Disney struggles. With the cuts as well they are just another theme park. IMO nostalgia is carrying the parks right now.

Well, if thats the case - it seems quite presumptuous that Disney keeps making decisions that imho at not consumer friendly and only help the bottom line. Keep going down this path and suddenly demand will disappear. Sure they can offer up some promotions and win back customers, but if you keep pushing customers away - there's a point where not all of them come back. Nostalgia only gets you so far. And if you continue to price families out of Disney parks, their children won't fondly remember Disney - they'll fondly remember where they did go as children.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I don't understand the complaints when it's $15. Compare that to other parks and it's good deal. IMO I think the reason people complain has more to do with not being able to pre plan your day.

Because its a complete change in direction for a company to be just like every other company out there. one of the reasons we went so many times was because how they treated you differently than all the others. The nickle and diming just make disney like everyone else.

 

[Garyjames220]

Where did you see that? On disneyholidays.co.uk they are offering genie+ for £6.99 a day which is around a $5 discount per day.

If you add it on to your two week ticket the cost is 14 days for the price of 9 it works out compared to adding it on at $15.97 a day out there

 

[shawthorne44]

They haven't been the market leader in awhile. Their competitor down the road saw their most profitable quarter since Covid started, while Disney struggles. With the cuts as well they are just another theme park. IMO nostalgia is carrying the parks right now.

I agree with you. Disney isn't in its own league anymore. Only reason we are still going is that we told daughter we are going. I used to worry that Disney would spoil all other theme/amusement parks for daughter. Now I worry that USF will call to her while we are at Disney.

 

[Jrb1979]

Well, if thats the case - it seems quite presumptuous that Disney keeps making decisions that imho at not consumer friendly and only help the bottom line. Keep going down this path and suddenly demand will disappear. Sure they can offer up some promotions and win back customers, but if you keep pushing customers away - there's a point where not all of them come back. Nostalgia only gets you so far. And if you continue to price families out of Disney parks, their children won't fondly remember Disney - they'll fondly remember where they did go as children.

The way they have been going is they are after the "once in a lifetime" guest over the ones who multiple times. They also are listening to the complaints about how crowded the parks are so they are doing something about it.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Agree, I'm definitely surprised in a positive way so far at how G+ has not really seemed to impact the standby wait times significantly (except for maybe Peter Pan). I'm still not sure if that is just a result of the crowd levels being lower or like you said FP+ was just "oversold".

My opinion - they could have "fixed" FP+ though without needing to charge for it, but I'm interested to see how this plays out.

If the trend continues, I think not paying for G+ is a totally viable option, and actually might be "better" in looking at some of the LL availability for G+ rides right now (granted it is the end of the day) - it seems like many parks run out of their LL allocation quite a bit before close (right now at HS, which is estimated to have a 6/10 crowd level, ToT, Slinky Dog and of course RoTR are sold out, and rides like RnR are over 2 hours away for a LL or a ~30 minute wait). Of course if you buy G+ you always have the option of waiting in Standby, how much value you get will depend on how many LL's you can get.

I think that charging for Genie+ turns certain people off, who would have obviously used the free FP+, that coupled with the fact, that because Disney is charging for it, they can more easily limit how many passes they give out a day, and make it more "exclusive", have tamped down long wait times. I think that Disneys old approach was to let people ride their "favorites", and if they could get on 1 or 2 others after, that was a win, and maybe that was the right way of thinking 5-7 years ago. They have now taken an approach to try and get their guests on as many rides a day as possible, and even more, if you're willing to pay.

If Disney Retooled FP+, and limited the availability, i'm pretty sure we would have seen Cinderella castle ablaze on launch day haha.

and as a side, i think Genie is helping make Hollywood, and AK full day parks on top of it all

 

[Liquidice]

I think that charging for Genie+ turns certain people off, who would have obviously used the free FP+, that coupled with the fact, that because Disney is charging for it, they can more easily limit how many passes they give out a day, and make it more "exclusive", have tamped down long wait times. I think that Disneys old approach was to let people ride their "favorites", and if they could get on 1 or 2 others after, that was a win, and maybe that was the right way of thinking 5-7 years ago. They have now taken an approach to try and get their guests on as many rides a day as possible, and even more, if you're willing to pay.

If Disney Retooled FP+, and limited the availability, i'm pretty sure we would have seen Cinderella castle ablaze on launch day haha.

and as a side, i think Genie is helping make Hollywood, and AK full day parks on top of it all

No matter what changes occurred, someone would be mad about it I'm sure

I do think you're right that FP+ allowed you to do your 3 favorites and then a few less popular rides. It encouraged you to visit the parks more than once per trip too - 8-10 days allows you to go to each park twice and the ones with more rides 3 times and if you pick 3 different FP+'s each day you could get on all the rides over the course of that trip.

I'm curious to know if Disney has decided that shorter trips are better, allowing guests to do more in 1 day (if they pay for it) and then cycle the guest out so they can cycle in a new guest. If you did this and demand is outstripping supply, you theoretically serve more customers without lowering revenue in the same amount of time - but you don't necessarily decrease crowds by doing this, you can just cope with more demand by having more customers.

I also think with the 1 LL ride per day with G+ Disney is probably spreading out the crowds a little better, pushing more people to less popular rides, since you eventually run out of LL opportunities at the more popular rides and might decide to grab a LL pass for the less popular rides. Similar to what they want to do with the free Genie service (not sure if they're really accomplishing that yet though).

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I think it is wrong to assume there was "no way" to fix FP+. I think saying other parks have a pay to skip the line system doesn't justify the statement that there was "no way" to fix it.

I'm not talking about how much it is (which it can get expensive depending on how many people you have with you, and how many days you opt to pay for it), and I'm not comparing it to competitors either. I'm just saying they could have taken FP+ and made changes to it to improve things.

The problem I have with comparing it to competitors is that Disney is supposed to be the market leader - if they keep playing "me too" and copying competitors, they won't be the market leader anymore - they'll just be another theme park.

I think if you did anything to FP+, and kept the name.... People would be pull your hair out mad, the hardcore fans who are already upset, and the casual Guests, who went 8 years ago, and can't understand how the same system is so different. I think no matter what they did, a name change had to accompany it, marketing would have been a night mare, "so your telling me it's the same thing, but completely different" is never a winning recipe, even if the changes were menial, that's how people would interpret it haha.

I think that Disney is being a market leader here, they have essentially found a way to cut back on wait times across their parks, and if you want to cut down even more, you can pay an additional fee to do so, and that fee in comparison to their competition is a lot lower. I find it that people are upset about the fact that Disney is charging for this service, and are not taking into account how much creativity, and innovation went into Genie+, it is significantly different than anyone elses "skip the line" system, they took their time with it to get it right, and that alone to me anyways, makes them a market leader

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I'm curious to know if Disney has decided that shorter trips are better, allowing guests to do more in 1 day (if they pay for it) and then cycle the guest out so they can cycle in a new guest. If you did this and demand is outstripping supply, you theoretically serve more customers without lowering revenue in the same amount of time - but you don't necessarily decrease crowds by doing this, you can just cope with more demand by having more customers.

I think for this to be true, you would have seen them attack ticket prices, aka not a steep drop in the price of tickets, the longer your trip is.

 

[shawthorne44]

The way they have been going is they are after the "once in a lifetime" guest over the ones who multiple times. They also are listening to the complaints about how crowded the parks are so they are doing something about it.

I think they have been. Cheap-ek has basically said that in investor meetings. He's talked about shorter more intense trips. You see that in the skyrocketing AP price over the last few years and how they severely limited AP park reservations. The Once-In-A-Lifetime guest isn't going to care about the price of G+ and a couple of ILL$$ for a trip. If they get annoyed about the lack for trams, for example, that is OK, because they aren't coming back anyway. But the person that goes 40 days a year? They care about the prices.

I don't think it will work for them though. You see posts of the time of people that ALWAYS stay on-site are now investigating off-site and shocked at how expensive it is. For AP holders, being able to get park reservations is a big perk.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

They haven't been the market leader in awhile. Their competitor down the road saw their most profitable quarter since Covid started, while Disney struggles. With the cuts as well they are just another theme park. IMO nostalgia is carrying the parks right now.

If Disney pushed their most profitable quarter ever, everyone would complain that it was on the backs of their guests, and for how much money they make they shouldn't be nickel and diming their guests.
a few other things, (call me an apologist if you have to)
Disney makes significantly more then their competition, so it's difficult to keep breaking records from such a height, (and i'm sure they will)
US had less restrictions, which i would wager attracted more guests to them for longer periods of time then they normally would have, I'm looking at Floridians in general here. Essentially Covid causing problem, even if they were self inflicted
I agree that Disney is lacking right now compared to precovid times, but to say that one of the largest companies on the planet isn't an innovator or market leader, with their stock prices at almost an all time high (and before someone says it, stock price directly reflects sentiment about where the company is going, so yes the two are directly related) is foolish at the least.