'Dismal' prospects: 1 in 2 Americans are now poor or low income

I get tired of reading the notion that college is a solution that can work for everyone. The fact is, we're already turning out more college grads than jobs that require degrees. What has changed about our society is the fairly recent notion that an honest day's work has no inherent value; wages have been stagnant or declining for millions upon millions of jobs across most unskilled/semi-skilled professions at the same time the costs of essentials (particularly housing, medical care, energy, and education) have skyrocketed.

The fact that 45K was a good living when you were young doesn't much matter in today's world when it takes 1/4 of that just to maintain health insurance and another 1/4 to provide modest housing.



:thumbsup2 :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2
ITA. My DH and I live in a lower cost of living area where 45K is actually a pretty good combined income. Neither DH or myself have a 4 year degree and we make well above that amount. 90% of our income comes from DH's paycheck. DH has a blue collar job as an operator at a refinery. He got that job by starting at the very bottom (as in picking up the garbage in the refinery parking lot at almost min wage). He worked days, nights, weekends, and holidays. He worked when almost everyone else, that was hired with him quit (many felt it was beneath them). As a resulty my DH was trained and kept moving up the ladder. He wasn't a lucky guy he was/is a hard worker. College isn't that answer for everything. It is a wonderful thing to have an education, if it's for you. But in my area many college graduates still have to get part time jobs just to make ends meet.
 
I'm in the South, which the article says is one of the hardest-hit areas, and I don't see this. I was at Walmart yesterday, and it was insane -- getting up and down the aisles was crazy because the crowds were so heavy. The mall's worse; we don't go there at this time of year because we literally can't get a parking space. My husband and I went out to dinner last Saturday night. Our first-choice restaurant was packed with a 40-minute wait time, so we went to a sports-bar nearby, and we got the last table. At school I see the majority of our teens wearing expensive clothes, a smattering of Coach bags among teens, the vast majority of our juniors/seniors driving cars of their own, and it's a rare high schooler who doesn't have a cell phone.

Clearly, people are spending money. If 50% of us were living in poverty, I think I'd see a different picture.

First, as someone else pointed out the 50% is poverty & *low income*, which is that strapped part of the lower middle class that doesn't qualify for assistance but doesn't really make enough to make ends meet either.

Second, low cost of living areas are always "harder hit" because those are the places where people can live "poor". I'd take 25K in my area over 50K in New England, California, the mid-Atlantic coast, etc. That's the downfall of national-level economic statistics; they put someone living on 40K in NYC and someone living on 40K in rural Alabama in the same category even though in terms of standard of living the two are likely worlds apart.

Third, a lot of the consequences of this growing cash-strapped class are invisible. They're still shopping for the holidays and going out to eat and maybe even saving for a vacation now and then, but they aren't going to have the million plus that they need for retirement or 200K per kid for college expenses. The crises will come down the road, and while I'm sure many will blast them for their poor choices in spending now, that's just trading one crisis for another because if they did stop spending to focus on the future our consumer-driven economy would be in even more trouble than it already is.
 
I HAD missed the part about the bugs. But they quote her as saying "After gas, formula, diapers, and rent, we barely have money to spend." They are receiving food stamps and "other government assistance" so I really would like to ask her "on what?"....I would guess if it were something necessary to survival,(her baby lacked clothing or something) she would name it. But she just wants to "spend."

Another thing is, if they are getting food stamps, they probably also qualify for WIC so they aren't paying for formula. What irks me is these young girls that get pregnant, can't afford the kid, but don't even try to breastfeed. It's free (well, you have to eat a bit more, but that doesn't cost anywhere near as much as formula).
 
There was a time that I thought $45,000/yr was a great income, but not anymore. To cover my family on my employer's health care was just about $19,000/yr -- I'm a full time employee and my company covers my healthcare, so this is just for spouse & kids. Our co-pays are $50/doctor. Rx varies from $40-75. Since my husband & I work full time, our household cannot get the discounted state health insurance. The kids could qualify IF they have been off a healthcare plan for over 6 months (the amount of time to get processed through the system), but the savings would not be great.

I live in a low income town. Yes, many families are on assistance and drive nicer cars than we did. And these kids have some nice "stuff" like X-Box, but the kids stuff usually comes as gifts from outside the household. Our local police take the kids shopping at WalMart each Christmas. The kids get X to spend. If multiple kids are in the same family, you often see the kids choose an X-Box or larger gift that the entire family can use vs. a personal item.

This article as done its job -- creates conversation and makes the public reflect on the economy.

Things are still rocky. Jobs are still scarce. I work in a job which permits me to deal with multiple industries and see multiple salaries. My experience has been that folks are doing tasks which were 3 peoples work 5 years ago.

I'm fortunate to work. My kids are fortunate that we can still afford sports and dance lessons and a family vacation every 18-24 months. I am not where I thought we'd be at this stage of life, but I am providing extras. I stopped worrying about the future. We had our flood and the rainy day savings was washed away. Now, I spend for today because I can't duplicate my kids childhoods. I'll worry about my future in 10 years. For now I am focused on creating memories and providing freedoms to help my kids develop.
 

And all I need to do is hire 10 employees by yesterday but $15 an hour with insurance is not enough for a high school grad who can barely read and write.
Does anyone want to work any more? They will clear $60,000 a year but unemployment is so much easier.:confused3
 
scbelleatheart -- My DH will take it if you're in our region! He makes far less than that and travels 90% of the time. We are committed to stay in our region until oldest finishes HS (he is in 11th grade).
 
And all I need to do is hire 10 employees by yesterday but $15 an hour with insurance is not enough for a high school grad who can barely read and write.
Does anyone want to work any more? They will clear $60,000 a year but unemployment is so much easier.:confused3

No offense, but $15 an hour @40hrs week is $31,200...I checked because I make more than that and work OT and have never been near 60 ;)
 
I make about $45k a year myself (DH also has a good job with good income). I have an "emergency" budget saved in Excel, sort of a "what if" senerio on what our finances would look like if DH lost his job and had zero income (not even unemployment or disability payments). So on paper, I can see what it would look like to live on $45k a year.

In my area, IF we were debt free other than the mortage (of a very modest 1300 sqft home) and cut all expenses to the bare bones, we'd have $175 left over at the end of the month after all necessities were paid for. The only "fun" item in the budget is a Netflix subscription.

On that income, we'd wouldn't be able to save for retirment, college for our kid, or a new car when our two older paid off cars went kaput. It doesn't leave much for major repairs on our home either, or any other financial crisis that may come along. Our only saving grace is I have excellent insurance through our employer, a major illness wouldn't necessarily sink us (unless I as the sole breadwinner was the one that was ill...).

Would we be poor? No..not really. But I wouldn't want to live like that for a long period of time either. It definately falls under the catagory of "low income".
 
And all I need to do is hire 10 employees by yesterday but $15 an hour with insurance is not enough for a high school grad who can barely read and write.
Does anyone want to work any more? They will clear $60,000 a year but unemployment is so much easier.:confused3

Where do I apply? That is more than I make currently....
 
I make about $45k a year myself (DH also has a good job with good income). I have an "emergency" budget saved in Excel, sort of a "what if" senerio on what our finances would look like if DH lost his job and had zero income (not even unemployment or disability payments). So on paper, I can see what it would look like to live on $45k a year.

In my area, IF we were debt free other than the mortage (of a very modest 1300 sqft home) and cut all expenses to the bare bones, we'd have $175 left over at the end of the month after all necessities were paid for. The only "fun" item in the budget is a Netflix subscription.

On that income, we'd wouldn't be able to save for retirment, college for our kid, or a new car when our two older paid off cars went kaput. It doesn't leave much for major repairs on our home either, or any other financial crisis that may come along. Our only saving grace is I have excellent insurance through our employer, a major illness wouldn't necessarily sink us (unless I as the sole breadwinner was the one that was ill...).

Would we be poor? No..not really. But I wouldn't want to live like that for a long period of time either. It definately falls under the catagory of "low income".

You just showed that we have a skewed definition of low income. New cars and home ownership are NOT what the low income does. Historically home ownership was in the low 60% of all households.

What you are describing is lower middle income.

Owning a home, even a modest one, is one characteristic of middle class not the poor (gets assistance for housing) or low income (renters). Sure a poor or lower person could inherit a home but they could not continue to maintain it.
 
Yes....this. I completely agree. This news story has really irked me because the way we are defining poverty these days is crazy.

Take a look at these statistics based on 2010 Census information:

* 80 Percent have Air Conditioning
* Two Thirds have Cable TV
* Three-fourths have a Car or Truck
* Over half have an XBox or Playstation

And 82% have cellphones! If this is poverty, count me in!!
 
And all I need to do is hire 10 employees by yesterday but $15 an hour with insurance is not enough for a high school grad who can barely read and write.
Does anyone want to work any more? They will clear $60,000 a year but unemployment is so much easier.:confused3

You might want to check your math. You don't clear $60,000 a year making $15 an hour. Not even close.
 
The air conditioning this is so weird :confused: I live in a high-income state and air conditioning is not typical, especially central air. There are million-plus homes that have a couple window units! I cannot relate to AC as a measure of poverty.
 
ACCORDING TO NIELSEN:
1 in 2 Americans Will Have a Smartphone by Christmas 2011

According to a recent study from The National Foundation for Credit Counseling (NFCC), 33 percent of Americans do not have a savings account of at least $1,000 or more to cover emergency expenses

That pretty much sums up what is wrong with this country! We need fiscal economic educations for our youth starting in elementary school! Obviously parents aren't doing it at home!

I'll glad I'll be the minority without a smart phone, kindle or IPAD yet I have a savings account and a retirement plan - color me OLD FASHIONED!
 
I have a story to share that is pertinent to this thread.

I'm in a mentoring program where I am a mentor to a young girl. We were matched when she was 9. She is now 12. We do an activity once a week together.

She is one of six children with the 7th on the way. They live in a home (not sure if they rent or own...not my business) that has enough space and is not run down. They have a/c, a big-screen flat TV, two cars (well, 3 actually because one of her older brothers has a car), satellite TV, a laptop, and the parents have cell phones. They do some shopping at thrift stores, but often go to places like Kohls', Burlington Coat Factory, etc. as well.

They are in food programs (EBT, WIC, go to food pantry, free breakfast and lunch for kids). I just found out today that her family has been "adopted" by another family to receive Christmas gifts.

Not my place to make a judgement here...just thought I'd share some details on this family that would be described as "poor."
 
The air conditioning this is so weird :confused: I live in a high-income state and air conditioning is not typical, especially central air. There are million-plus homes that have a couple window units! I cannot relate to AC as a measure of poverty.

Try living in the deep south without ac. There are deaths every year from the heat in low income areas. A/C here is NOT a luxury. Heck if I had to make a choice, I would go without heat before I would go without a/c.


As for the rest of this thread :sad2:, I sure hope all this blaming the poor/low income for their situation makes everyone feel much better about themselves.

Merry Christmas.
 
Owning a home, even a modest one, is one characteristic of middle class not the poor (gets assistance for housing) or low income (renters). Sure a poor or lower person could inherit a home but they could not continue to maintain it.

Things change over time, though. For many, many years it has been cheaper in my area to buy than to rent. When we bought our first home we saw our monthly housing payment fall by almost $100/mo, and we were in a crappy apartment complex in a so-so neighborhood, not anything large or luxurious. Of course that wasn't much of a house either, but still we were saving money in the short term in addition to building equity over time.

And my personal experiences cause me to doubt the latter part of your statement. I know several low income families who have maintained inherited homes (that they could never hope to afford to buy) for decades. Maintaining a home costs a fraction of market rent so if they could afford any roof over their head they could afford to keep a house owned free & clear.
 
As for the rest of this thread :sad2:, I sure hope all this blaming the poor/low income for their situation makes everyone feel much better about themselves.

No one is saying that NO ONE who is poor is a victim of circumstance. We are saying that there is a skewed perspective of "poor" in our society, and that yes, there are SOME people who are responsible for their own circumstances or are flat out taking advantage of the system. Those are facts, not people being judgmental.
 
And all I need to do is hire 10 employees by yesterday but $15 an hour with insurance is not enough for a high school grad who can barely read and write.
Does anyone want to work any more? They will clear $60,000 a year but unemployment is so much easier.:confused3

$15 an hour*40 hour week=$600.
52 week in a year*$600 a week=$31,200

That's presuming you're paying for holidays, sick time and vacations.
 
No offense, but $15 an hour @40hrs week is $31,200...I checked because I make more than that and work OT and have never been near 60 ;)
The other poster used a plural pronoun; thus, I think he was figuring two parents both working at this job. They'd have 60K combined for the family.
Try living in the deep south without ac. There are deaths every year from the heat in low income areas. A/C here is NOT a luxury. Heck if I had to make a choice, I would go without heat before I would go without a/c.
I've lived in the South all my life, and I grew up without air conditioning (we're talking 70s-80s). We had one attic fan in the middle of the house, and we had an oscillating tabletop fan in the kitchen. We survived. Sometimes we'd sleep out in lawn chairs in the field watching the stars. We never ate hot lunches during the summer, and we often had cold dinners as well.

I have also gone without heat. Personally, I'd give up the air conditioning first.

The people who literally die from lack of air conditioning tend to be the elderly who are in poor health. Healthy people can take the heat.

Also, while I was growing up, I never heard of anyone dying from the heat, but back then people spent the day on their porches and kept their windows open. I have the impression that these deaths tend to happen in places where people don't feel safe doing those things -- so they're faced with the choice of staying indoors in the unhealthy heat, or opening their doors and windows and opening themselves to the possibility of violence. Also, houses "back then" were built for the heat: They have high ceilings (because heat rises), and they have large windows placed for cross-ventilation. In the 70s, people started building with the assumption that air conditioning would be used; so rooms have windows on only one side, making furniture placement easier and ensuring privacy from neighbors.
And my personal experiences cause me to doubt the latter part of your statement. I know several low income families who have maintained inherited homes (that they could never hope to afford to buy) for decades. Maintaining a home costs a fraction of market rent so if they could afford any roof over their head they could afford to keep a house owned free & clear.
This was very common when I was growing up. I"m from a very rural area, where families tend to live on the same farm for generations.

I grew up in a farmhouse that'd been added onto multiple times. Many of my friends lived the same way: Maybe it'd been a 2-bedroomhouse, then someone'd made the attic into a bedroom so that an adult child could move in (with his family) to care for his elderly parents. Lots of these houses pre-date indoor plumbing, so houses often sport add-on bathrooms.

Oddities that you see in this type of house:

100 years or more ago, it was common for a man to add a "courting room" onto the front of his house when his daughters reached their teenaged years. Oddly enough, these were just rooms tacked onto the front of the house -- they aren't connected with a door to the inside, so you have to go out on the front porch to reach the courting room.

I've seen more than one old house with an attic bedroom reached via a ladder in the dining room.

It was common "back in the day" for a young couple to build themselves a "tall house". That meant they built the downstairs with a wide hallway. Once they had children (and presumably had saved more money), they'd install a stairway in the hall, and they'd add on upstairs bedrooms as they were needed. It was cheaper to build a "tall house" in the first place so that the exterior walls were in place.
 














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