Discuss what Disney is doing wrong part II

[fey_spirit]

You know I will actually agree with you in updating the classics with new technology as long as they follow a few rules.

1.) Be true to the intent and spirit of the original - the idea is to make it better, not change the heart of it.
2.) Only do what you need to do - don't go crazy with it (I think of websites built by new designers who implement ever cool new trick they know just because they know it. What you end up with is a whirlling, buzzing, beeping, flashing, ugly mess.)
3.) Don't turn these particular classics into thrill rides - some of us choose Disney specifically because we don't like thrill rides - if we did we'd go to Universal.
4.) No 3D there are other ways to update with technology and not everyone can see the 3D (like me, so for me making it 3D would be to ruin the effect full out.)


As for the dining plan I see no proof that this came from the dining plan. I think Disney likes being able to hide behind it as a convenient excuse, but the fact is there is more proof that it would have happened anyway than there is to the contrary.

The alcohol offerings became standardized across property long before they added the wine pkg to the dining plan (and that still wouldn't explain non wine standardization anyway.)

There is no "Souvenir Plan" but countless people on this thread and the one before it have complained abut the dumbing down and standardization of the gift shops.

They are doing this across the board in any area that requires them to shop for supplies (food, drink, merchandise) because it is cheaper and easier.

Given those facts it seems clear to me that the changes made to dining would have occurred with or without the DDP.

I'm going to upset a few people and say that Disney needs to update classic rides and add more rides. On the first part, if you go to places like Islands of Adventure, you see how far ride technology has come and it feels a little like a ripoff to pay Disney prices to, essentially, wait an hour in line to ride in a little car past mostly static scenes for two minutes (think Snow White's Scary Adventures, Peter Pan, Winnie the Pooh, It's a Small World). I truly believe the Imagineers can do a lot better. And they simply need more rides to cut down wait times.

I go back and forth on the dining plan. I like it for the value it provides, but I don't like what it has done to the restaurants (selection of food, portion sizes) and service levels, in addition to how difficult it is to get ADRs. I also think you should be able to choose an appetizer OR a dessert on the dining plan.

 

[DanMedix]

You know, I'm glad for threads like this. I'm glad that people can actually voice their opinions, and be heard. Some folks agree with what's said, and some don't. That's just life.

In our world today, we see so many things going down the tubes. ONE COULD ARGUE this about many things, like the state of the country, the economy, education, crime, and being able to provide for one's family on what little money we make.

We all agree that The Walt Disney Company is just that: A Company. However, they're not just any old upstart company. They've got a huge history and grand tradition of entertaining, educating, and providing so many of us with "magic". As has been stated before, they are indeed the ones that have set the standard for theme parks, animation, and entertainment of all kinds.

Sometimes it's just depressing to see this legacy go down the tubes like the rest of things around us. Greed seems to be king. It's all about the almighty dollar, and has been for quite a few years. Of course, Disney is far from the only company that's sold its soul (to coin a phrase). But, we had come to expect more from Walt Disney and his legacy. Apparently, we were wrong. We expected a certain level of service, magic, competency, entertainment, quality, security, and care from the parks. We expected good family television. We expected beautiful, driven storylines in your movies. Somehow, they don't think we're deserving of that anymore.

So, what do we do? Well, some folks are writing letters, sending emails, and making phone calls. These are indeed good ideas, in my opinion. But, how much weight they will actually carry still remains to be seen.

As for myself, the only thing I can do as a man, a father, a husband, and a child of God's universe, is to hit the greed at its source. That is to say, until Disney shows improvement, or at least shows the desire to hold true to the Legacy, they won't get any of my money. I won't simply "take what I'm given", and pay for it. Now, I know I'm just one person, and my hard-earned money isn't even a full drop in the ocean to a company like theirs. But, perhaps if more people were picky about where their money went, we'd help to not only make our voices heard, but help to make a difference.

Hey Mickey....that's all I can do for you. I'm sorry. The rest is up to those greedy, out-of-touch people on the board of directors. If I don't see you again, thanks for the memories......

 

[Colleen27]

As for the dining plan I see no proof that this came from the dining plan. I think Disney likes being able to hide behind it as a convenient excuse, but the fact is there is more proof that it would have happened anyway than there is to the contrary.

The alcohol offerings became standardized across property long before they added the wine pkg to the dining plan (and that still wouldn't explain non wine standardization anyway.)

There is no "Souvenir Plan" but countless people on this thread and the one before it have complained abut the dumbing down and standardization of the gift shops.

They are doing this across the board in any area that requires them to shop for supplies (food, drink, merchandise) because it is cheaper and easier.

Given those facts it seems clear to me that the changes made to dining would have occurred with or without the DDP.

I agree. It is obvious that the move towards standarized offerings is a company-wide strategy, not a trend that is limited to dining or something developed to offset DDP losses.

Beyond that, I think during the time that many DISers look back on as the glory days of Disney dining, Disney had actually over-improved their food service offerings. Hang out on the restaurant board for a while and you'll see how many people worry that their picky eaters, particularly Disney adult kids, won't eat anything off of the current menus. More creative, varied menus likely would have discouraged families like that from eating much TS outside of buffets. Those who enjoyed the better offerings and those of us who simply like really good food lament the changes, but there's no denying that the new menus have greater appeal to the masses. Every time the DDP debate comes up, I sum it up as this - there is a reason there are hundreds of TGI Fridays, Applebees and Outback Steakhouses for every one Victoria & Alberts or Inn at Little Washington. The market for steak & potatoes is much larger than the market for gourmet dining.

 

[scarlet_ibis]

Every time the DDP debate comes up, I sum it up as this - there is a reason there are hundreds of TGI Fridays, Applebees and Outback Steakhouses for every one Victoria & Alberts or Inn at Little Washington. The market for steak & potatoes is much larger than the market for gourmet dining.

Would it kill them to go back to having nice specials though?

And as for the kids' menus, one of the reasons I like Epcot is that there is variety in the kids' meals. I feel like a bad parent (and I probably am!) if I feed my kids chicken nuggets, macaroni and cheese, and pizza for 8 days. They end up not feeling so well, either. My girls LOVE the variety at Sunshine Seasons. When we eat at Marrakesh, they would probably eat more of my meal than I would, if I'd let them.

 

[fey_spirit]

I think the idea is that the other hundred thousand posts are about how much Disney rocks =)

Though I agree with you, I would love to see a what's great thread - and I would also like to see a thread about creative and positive solutions that could be made by Disney to fix these issues being raised in this thread.

Of course, I do. That's exactly why I am saying I am surprised there's such a looooooong thread about what's WRONG with Disney.
I think you all have misunderstood my posts in this thread. I am sorry if I was not more clear in what I was trying to say.

 

[fey_spirit]

What you do in your own home is your business, but the fact is you can find bratty, sassy, even flirty behavior in any given cartoon as well. Heck Minnie Mouse has been a total flirt since day 1... Donald has a bit of an anger management issue, and one could make an argument that Mickey has some severe self entitlement issues.

The kids you know who watch those shows and display those behaviors might very well watch any cartoon and pick up the same attitudes because that is what they are predisposed to. There may not be the same direct correlation that you are trying to make.

In the summer, people eat a lot more ice cream... in the summer people also commit a lot more violent crimes, but that doesn't mean that eating ice cream causes violent crimes. In the same way that the kids you know who are "bratty" watch these shows, but that doesn't mean it causes the behavior.

Disagree with you there. My six year old doesn't care to watch any of the "afternoon" Disney Channel programming (which now starts at 10am, so we pretty much turn off DC for the summer). She's not allowed to watch Hannah Montana or iCarly, has never asked to see HSM, turns off Suite Life and the others. (Same for my 3 year old.)

The young kids I know who are into these shows all seem to have sassy mouths and bratty attitudes and I'm not having that in my house.

 

[dtum]

You know, I'm glad for threads like this. I'm glad that people can actually voice their opinions, and be heard. Some folks agree with what's said, and some don't. That's just life.

In our world today, we see so many things going down the tubes. ONE COULD ARGUE this about many things, like the state of the country, the economy, education, crime, and being able to provide for one's family on what little money we make.

We all agree that The Walt Disney Company is just that: A Company. However, they're not just any old upstart company. They've got a huge history and grand tradition of entertaining, educating, and providing so many of us with "magic". As has been stated before, they are indeed the ones that have set the standard for theme parks, animation, and entertainment of all kinds.

Sometimes it's just depressing to see this legacy go down the tubes like the rest of things around us. Greed seems to be king. It's all about the almighty dollar, and has been for quite a few years. Of course, Disney is far from the only company that's sold its soul (to coin a phrase). But, we had come to expect more from Walt Disney and his legacy. Apparently, we were wrong. We expected a certain level of service, magic, competency, entertainment, quality, security, and care from the parks. We expected good family television. We expected beautiful, driven storylines in your movies. Somehow, they don't think we're deserving of that anymore.

So, what do we do? Well, some folks are writing letters, sending emails, and making phone calls. These are indeed good ideas, in my opinion. But, how much weight they will actually carry still remains to be seen.

As for myself, the only thing I can do as a man, a father, a husband, and a child of God's universe, is to hit the greed at its source. That is to say, until Disney shows improvement, or at least shows the desire to hold true to the Legacy, they won't get any of my money. I won't simply "take what I'm given", and pay for it. Now, I know I'm just one person, and my hard-earned money isn't even a full drop in the ocean to a company like theirs. But, perhaps if more people were picky about where their money went, we'd help to not only make our voices heard, but help to make a difference.

Hey Mickey....that's all I can do for you. I'm sorry. The rest is up to those greedy, out-of-touch people on the board of directors. If I don't see you again, thanks for the memories......

I have to agree with the money part. Our next trip we are staying off site. There are some very nice suites w/full amenities (micorwave, frig, wi-fi, etc.) for same price as Disney Value-even free transportation to the parks. DH and I started looking into this when they raised FW to $100/night. Come on...talk about greed-$100 night to camp and they never offer free dinning for campers. Looked at Value, but they don't have microwaves in the room (not even coffee makers!) We got tired of settling for less than we would at any other resort area.

Only other thing that would probably cut all ties with Disney is if they stop letting people bring food and drinks into the park. Some amusement parks around here do that and we don't go to them because it's ridiculous to force people to buy food and drinks all day long after paying a huge admission price. So for now that's a thumbs up for Disney.

DH and I aren't rich and how we spend our vacation dollars is very important. Moving off-site is just a way of going to Disney and being able to afford it.

 

[Nancy for Disney]

I have been reading this thread over the past few days. I really didn't want to be one to complain and maybe I just missed it but I can't believe someone hasn't mentioned it.


THE COFFEE!

 

[Mallow]

i have been reading this thread over the past few days. I really didn't want to be one to complain and maybe i just missed it but i can't believe someone hasn't mentioned it.


The coffee!

amen!

 

[fey_spirit]

Actually I wouldn't go so far as to say the kids always come out on top in Hannah Montanna. Very often it's Robbie Ray who comes out on top. Which is one of the things I like about the show.

Sure ... but I still watched it as a kid. It was on early, so families could watch together. And there was nothing in it that kids couldn't see. Same with Hannah Montana and Suite Life. They're just slapstick comedies where the kids always come up on top and adults look silly. Pretty standard stuff!

 

[fey_spirit]

Now see I would much rather any child of mine mimic Miley then Bugs Bunny...

Yup. I wouldn't (don't, since it is still on) allow my 4 & 5 year olds to watch I Love Lucy. I don't like my kids watching HM, Drake & Josh, or any other of the tween shows. OK, I allow my just-entering-the-tween-age to watch them, but I don't like it. I think kids should be, um, KIDS. It's not appropriate to have them dressing that way, saying the things they say, and acting like them. There are some pretty "adult" situations in some of those episodes. JMO.

What I get a kick out of is when they watch Boomerang. My youngest belly laughs at Banana Splits, Bugs Bunny, and other various "older" cartoons. My kids don't watch a lot of TV, but when they do, it darn well better be age appropriate and not dealing with sex. We have several DVDs of the old Disney cartoons, and those are some of their favorites--not even the new Disney cartoons.

 

[Planogirl]

I have to agree with the money part. Our next trip we are staying off site. There are some very nice suites w/full amenities (micorwave, frig, wi-fi, etc.) for same price as Disney Value-even free transportation to the parks. DH and I started looking into this when they raised FW to $100/night. Come on...talk about greed-$100 night to camp and they never offer free dinning for campers. Looked at Value, but they don't have microwaves in the room (not even coffee makers!) We got tired of settling for less than we would at any other resort area.

We've been staying offsite with great success. WDW is still there and we wanted more amenities for less cost. It made sense. Of course, we don't require the immersion that so many enjoy.

I will say that I'll jump at the chance to stay at AKL and PORS again though. I do have my favorites.

 

[dtum]

We've been staying offsite with great success. WDW is still there and we wanted more amenities for less cost. It made sense. Of course, we don't require the immersion that so many enjoy.

I will say that I'll jump at the chance to stay at AKL and PORS again though. I do have my favorites.

Glad to hear it's worked out. I'm actually looking forward to it. We've decided on Doubletree Suites because they are right at DTD and their buses run every 1/2 hour to the parks. I know a lot of people get very defensive when I say we are thinking about off-site, but if you think about it-it just makes sense (at least for us). Even my DD's family and DS's family are following our example.

 

[GRUMPY PIRATE]

I have been reading this thread over the past few days. I really didn't want to be one to complain and maybe I just missed it but I can't believe someone hasn't mentioned it.


THE COFFEE!

gotta agree, that nesca-rap has gotta go.

 

[ScarletFire]

I have been reading this thread over the past few days. I really didn't want to be one to complain and maybe I just missed it but I can't believe someone hasn't mentioned it.


THE COFFEE!

It's horrible! All of it! I bring coffee from home and brew it in the room. DH drinks espresso; but no luck finding a good cup in the World.

 

[Planogirl]

Glad to hear it's worked out. I'm actually looking forward to it. We've decided on Doubletree Suites because they are right at DTD and their buses run every 1/2 hour to the parks. I know a lot of people get very defensive when I say we are thinking about off-site, but if you think about it-it just makes sense (at least for us). Even my DD's family and DS's family are following our example.

And you might not like it. Or you might find it acceptable and do both as we do. Or you might never look back. I've heard all three lately.

I like Doubletree hotels in general and this one has a great location. I hope that you have a great stay!

 

[Planogirl]

It's horrible! All of it! I bring coffee from home and brew it in the room. DH drinks espresso; but no luck finding a good cup in the World.

They also have horrible tea in most places. Who thought that Nescafe could make tea? Luckily, you can find good tea in World Showcase at least.

 

[SuperTink]

Someone might have posted this before (I didn't see the other thread or read many of these posts) but I sincerely hope people write Disney about their concerns. That's the only reasonable hope for change. I wrote to them after our last visit. The impact is much greater if more people write in.

So please chip in!

 

[aurora23]

I agree with a lot of what has been said here. I wish disney had a frequent visitor discount program of some sort. I am one of those people who would love to buy into something like DVC, but cannot justify the cost. There are often better deals that are not offerred to DVC members. I understand that vacations are expensive, and I don't expect Disney to be cheap, but it is getting almost unaffordable to many.

I understand the thought process that Disney feels that they already have those people in our parks, and the desire to attract new guests but it makes sense to me that Disney would want to be loyal (at least somewhat) to its frequent guests. Many other corporations do this. It is one thing to attract new guests, but you want them to keep coming back as well.

I LOVE Disney and it is not to the point where I won't go back, but I probably won't go back as often. It is becoming hard to justify the cost. Our upcoming Honeymoon might be the last trip to disney we go on for awhile.

 

[waltfan1957]

I have been reading this thread over the past few days. I really didn't want to be one to complain and maybe I just missed it but I can't believe someone hasn't mentioned it.


THE COFFEE!

AKA, sludge