disabilities assistance Abuse

[RamblinWreck]

Forcing everyone to tap in would cause huge backups on standby lines. (We've all been behind that family in the FP/LL queue who take forever to pull out their cards or use their bands or only use one side instead of both.) So you're going to lose more 'wait time' than you save, I guarantee it. So do you want to wait on longer lines for the sake of 'equality'?

And what if they purchase Genie+? Which someone who can't physically wait in a long line is likely to do. My Dad uses DAS because of his bad back (wheelchair doesn't work because whether sitting or standing, it's being in one physical position for a long time that's the issue) and we've always done Fastpass+/Genie+ as well. We actually use that instead of DAS as much as possible because those systems are open to everyone and we don't want to abuse DAS.

I agree that implementing it would present logistical challenges. But it's not as though the tapstile process moves slower than the actual line does.

Keep in mind that in the fastpass+ days, 75% of all people getting onto every ride were fastpass users, and they were all using the tapstiles as they currently exist, without issue. The standby line moves even slower, so I doubt it would really create an issue in terms of getting people onto rides efficiently.


Edit:

I think on my first read of your post I didn't understand what you were saying about Genie+, but I think I do now.

I don't think it would really affect Genie+, personally.

If you have a Genie+ lightning lane at 3:00 for Splash Mountain, and you try to use DAS at 2:45 on the Seven Dwarves Mine Train with a 120 minute wait, the system would just warn you that getting in this 2 hour line may make you miss your Genie+ time. Just like it would if you actually physically got into that line.

 

[Lilsia]

One thing that would probably cut down on a lot of abuse, but wouldn't be popular with the DAS users, would be removing the ability to ride other rides while you are waiting in your virtual queue for another ride.

This sounds like an expensive fix on Disney's end, though, so I doubt they'd even bother thinking about it unless they really thought DAS abuse was becoming so rampant that it was eating away at their Genie+ revenue.

I don't think that there is abuse like you think there is. I spent about 6 weeks total time between reopening and Genie+. The lines that the DAS use where almost always empty. Every once in a while you would get a group of maybe 10 people backed up, but it is nothing like how the lines are when it was FP or Genie+. How much abuse can there possibly be when those lines never got any significant amount of people in them? I think that the people that you are seeing filling the lines are Genie+ and not the amount of DAS users as you seem to think. The real issue is that they are overselling Genie+. It is almost 50/50 at this point making it 2 stand by lines.

 

[Karin1984]

I agree that implementing it would present logistical challenges. But it's not as though the tapstile process moves slower than the actual line does.

Keep in mind that in the fastpass+ days, 75% of all people getting onto every ride were fastpass users, and they were all using the tapstiles as they currently exist, without issue. The standby line moves even slower, so I doubt it would really create an issue in terms of getting people onto rides efficiently.

The problem is that a guest using DAS is not the same as a guest without. For example, those who are using DAS because of sensory overload probably have to take more breaks, inside or outside the park. Because of this they can do less rides than the guest without DAS. so it probably equals out how much everyone can do in one holiday.

We cannot ask Disney to tone done the sensory overload to accomodate these guests, so they have to do it another way.

They have solved a lot of the abuse by having everyone with mobility issues in the regular line.

 

[SirDuff]

The problem is that a guest using DAS is not the same as a guest without. For example, those who are using DAS because of sensory overload probably have to take more breaks, inside or outside the park. Because of this they can do less rides than the guest without DAS. so it probably equals out how much everyone can do in one holiday.

We cannot ask Disney to tone done the sensory overload to accomodate these guests, so they have to do it another way.

They have solved a lot of the abuse by having everyone with mobility issues in the regular line.

I get what you are saying, but that isn’t covered by the ADA. It is equal access to the ride not equal number of rides.

 

[RamblinWreck]

The problem is that a guest using DAS is not the same as a guest without. For example, those who are using DAS because of sensory overload probably have to take more breaks, inside or outside the park. Because of this they can do less rides than the guest without DAS. so it probably equals out how much everyone can do in one holiday.

We cannot ask Disney to tone done the sensory overload to accomodate these guests, so they have to do it another way.

They have solved a lot of the abuse by having everyone with mobility issues in the regular line.

I don't harbor any ill will toward anyone who has a need to use DAS, and I don't think we should be making it any more difficult for them to use it.

I think Disney currently agrees with that as I don't think they are seeing enough abuse of the system to see a need for a change currently, either.



I know some people with the kind of issues you described. They are local annual passholders who have 2 children who are both autistic and both need a lot of assistance. Just a couple weeks ago they decided to make a day trip to Hollywood Studios. Between DAS, Genie+, and just doing standby on short lines while they waited for other rides, they rode every ride in the park on a day trip.

I think that's great for them. I'd also hardly call it "equal access". And I also don't mind that people with disabilities get that bonus. But I can guarantee you that the bonus of being able to ride other rides while you wait is a big motivating factor for the people who do abuse the system.

 

[RamblinWreck]

I don't think that there is abuse like you think there is. I spent about 6 weeks total time between reopening and Genie+. The lines that the DAS use where almost always empty. Every once in a while you would get a group of maybe 10 people backed up, but it is nothing like how the lines are when it was FP or Genie+. How much abuse can there possibly be when those lines never got any significant amount of people in them? I think that the people that you are seeing filling the lines are Genie+ and not the amount of DAS users as you seem to think. The real issue is that they are overselling Genie+. It is almost 50/50 at this point making it 2 stand by lines.

Oh I don't think there's that much abuse either.

I was also there in June last year and I felt bad for the DAS people. In the absence of fast passes, everyone assumes anyone getting in that line is on the DAS and it felt like a lot of judgmental eyes were trying to assess whether the people passing by them actually deserved to.


I guess I was just musing on what could be done if they actually did see a ton of abuse and thought it needed to be cut down on.


And I also don't think that any other solutions they would come up with would be very popular among DAS users.

 

[DLgal]

I get what you are saying, but that isn’t covered by the ADA. It is equal access to the ride not equal number of rides.

The ADA requires AT LEAST equal access. There is no law that says private companies cannot give people with a disability an advantage as well, *if they want to.*

 

[Groot]

If anything, Genie+, LL, etc. is gonna cause a resurgence of the disability fakers, instead of those of us who TRULY NEED the DAS.

 

[Karin1984]

If anything, Genie+, LL, etc. is gonna cause a resurgence of the disability fakers, instead of those of us who TRULY NEED the DAS.

I doubt that, Genie Plus has been around for a while now, if there truly was an increase in fakers, we would have noticed it by now.

 

[Yinn]

I’m going to play along here.

Where is the line drawn? Ok so we say you can’t ride alien saucers while waiting for slinky. Can you go watch the frozen show? No? How about a parade? That’s another form of entertainment.

Can one go grab food? Or is that not allowed since it’s an activity that someone in line can’t do? Or do we only allow people who’s disability requires access to food?

Maybe we just block out sit down restaurants and sit down shows? Do we get in trouble for limiting options?

If I’m Disney, I’d rather deal with grumblings from the non disabled for not being “fair” what’s the worst case? It makes the news that we’re treating the disabled with extra care and consideration? The alternative is much worse.

 

[RamblinWreck]

I’m going to play along here.

Where is the line drawn? Ok so we say you can’t ride alien saucers while waiting for slinky. Can you go watch the frozen show? No? How about a parade? That’s another form of entertainment.

Can one go grab food? Or is that not allowed since it’s an activity that someone in line can’t do? Or do we only allow people who’s disability requires access to food?

Maybe we just block out sit down restaurants and sit down shows? Do we get in trouble for limiting options?

If I’m Disney, I’d rather deal with grumblings from the non disabled for not being “fair” what’s the worst case? It makes the news that we’re treating the disabled with extra care and consideration? The alternative is much worse.

I think you make valid points.

Just to be clear, I wasn’t griping about anything. I was just pointing out that the main draw for the fakers is the ability to hit up more attractions. And also that eliminating that draw wouldn’t exactly harm the purpose of the DAS.

In the more extreme examples that you listed (which are totally fair questions to ask if you go down that line of thinking that I started us on), it starts to feel much more like punishing people for being disabled than anything.

I think that saying “you don’t have to wait in the actual line, and instead can do literally anything in the park except ride other rides while you are in a virtual queue” still sounds like a pretty amazing benefit that would really help a lot of families, but would be less enticing to the fakers.

But I will also concede that I’m not disabled, nor are my immediate family members, so I definitely have some potential blind spots.

 

[SueM in MN]

I think you make valid points.

Just to be clear, I wasn’t griping about anything. I was just pointing out that the main draw for the fakers is the ability to hit up more attractions. And also that eliminating that draw wouldn’t exactly harm the purpose of the DAS.

In the more extreme examples that you listed (which are totally fair questions to ask if you go down that line of thinking that I started us on), it starts to feel much more like punishing people for being disabled than anything.

I think that saying “you don’t have to wait in the actual line, and instead can do literally anything in the park except ride other rides while you are in a virtual queue” still sounds like a pretty amazing benefit that would really help a lot of families, but would be less enticing to the fakers.

But I will also concede that I’m not disabled, nor are my immediate family members, so I definitely have some potential blind spots.

One final post before closing. After 24 pages, it’s not really going anywhere new.…

I don’t agree with the bolded.
I’ll give you our real life experiences to help fill in your blind spots.

People say, “Just get there at rope drop.” Well, we can‘t get to the parks at rope drop because of our daughter’s medical needs. She can’t get herself dressed, brush teeth or hair. In the morning, she needs multiple medications and to have bladder catheterization along with flushing her bladder with sterile water/saline. We need to get her food ready and feed her.
I‘ve seen people post - “how is that different than a toddler? Why should you get benefits we don’t with a toddler?”
Well, the difference is that the toddler will eventually grow up and be able to do things for themself. My daughter won’t.

What do we do while waiting for our DAS Return Times?
- Well, sometimes we do go on some other attraction that has a short wait - that’s not as much of an option since Genie+. The waits are much longer than they were before; even compared to when it was Fastpass Plus. At least in our experience, Genie+ has slowed down the Standby Line a lot (probably boarding more people from the Lightning Lane compared to when it was free Fastpass).

- Most often we spend our wait time feeding her, giving medication or using the restroom - I need to do urinary catheterization on her ever 3.5 to 4 hours. Even though I can do it quickly, our bathroom stops are often 1/2 hour or more because we need to wait for the handicapped stall with a sink that is big enough for a wheelchair and me (usually 1 stall per restroom) or the Companion Restroom.

- if she has a seizure, we might be just sitting someplace letting her sleep (and still might have to leave after she’s rested).

- A long park day for us is about 5 hours, which is sometimes as few as 2 attractions and rarely as many as 4 - that would be a really good day. Her shortest day was about 30 minutes total at EPCOT one day; dad took her back to our resort and I stayed in the park.
We are also pretty limited on what our daughter can do in the parks - if it doesn’t have a wheelchair accessible ride car, we have to lift her in. Some, like Soarin are pretty easy. Some, like Frozen or Splash Mountain are impossible. And, even some of the easy to transfer ones like Slinky Dog or Seven Dwarfs are out because they are too rough.

“you don’t have to wait in the actual line, and instead can do literally anything in the park except ride other rides while you are in a virtual queue” might sound like an amazing benefit for someone who can actually literally do anything in the park. But, many people using DAS have very limited things they can do and you can only walk around so long in shops