Direct Purchase benefits announced!

[mlayton14]

Lets face it folks .. its the "slippery slope" that this change is implying in the future that is concerning. The overall change is almost irrelevant to most buyers I woudl think. But the fact that Disney made this change because their sales have tanked is not to be taken lightly.

There is a limit to what DVC can offer wrt onsite properties and perks since land availability is scarce and separation of profit centers are a reality.

This is scary change .. and I cant imagine good for any owner in the future

 

[Sandisw]

I mean mainly that they advertise to be "different" from other timeshares. Don't think that is accurate anymore.

Got it!

 

[Mjasp]

Is the resale market for dvc really having that great of an effect on disney that would make them warrent these changes on resale points.

Could it be they want the resale price to drop so they can buy them back and resell them...Cha ching times 2 or 3 or...
I was thinking of buying DVC resale but IMO think that Disney just devalued their product with this new rule. It is worth no more than any other TS now as it has a lesser retail value

 

[McCrae]

IMO I don't think this is a big deal. Most people buy DVC to stay at the resorts and not to use the cruise or book Disney adventure holidays. the main exchange RCI will be available. See this having almost no impact on resale values.

 

[Dean]

I hope it doesn't simply prevent them from buying at all. Now when buying direct it appears you are making a huge commitment. If something changes in your life down the road and you need to sell it probably means your property won't sell as high as in the past on the resale market. Of course, time will tell what happens with resale prices.

I also wonder if DVC will declare this to buyers when buying directly from Disney. I don't mean just put it in the paperwork but I mean tell them verbally so they understand the differences should they need to sell.

Jason

They already do as required by FL law. They state in the POS that one should not purchase with the promise of resale proceeds or rentals and that it should not be viewed as an investment. It also opens DVC up to go into the direct resale market.

As I've said in the past, I think this is a blessing in disguise for new buyers. Also puts to bed the nay sayers that Disney would never do such a thing. This is a timeshare, plain and simple.

No matter how anyone paints this picture, the changes have devalued our contracts, whether one owns all direct, all resales, or a combination of these points. What loss occurs from these changes remains to be seen.

But it may have actually increased the real value of future resale purchases.

I wonder how they will handle owners who have both types? Will they have separate master accounts or just track the type of points going forward?

 

[JimMIA]

They need to get over and change their website:



And no where on the website does it say you must buy direct to receive any of these benefits. I guess they will change it before March.

You know what? They don't actually "need" to change a thing.

Under the law, the only representations that matter are those in the Public Offering Statement (POS) and the sales contract. And none of the stuff that's being restricted is mentioned in either one.

These are just perks, and Disney can choose to change them at any time...and for any group of owners they want. As they have over and over and over -- for better or worse.

I'm a little amazed by the number of people who think this is the first shoe falling. There have been dozens of perks changed over the life of DVC, and we'll see dozens more over the next 15 years or so.

 

[Dean]

I don't see how this helps Disney's sales. The number of sales Disney is losing to resale is base on how many people have to put their contract up for sale. This change isn't going to stop people from having to sell.

Not really. First, some will not sell that might have otherwise and some may buy that would not have if the price goes down enough plus they still have ROFR. Second, this type of move is not about a given buyer, but about the overall sales process. It's the same as ROFR, setting up the expectation that one should buy from the developer or not buy at all. Certainly some will not buy due to a number of reasons, but MORE will buy developer than would have otherwise and/or they will recoup a larger per point price than otherwise. I doubt this change alone will have enough of an effect so stay tuned for future salvo's that further affect the membership of retail vs resale OR a VIP system.

By making resales less attractive, the people who have to sell will have to lower their price a bit to compensate. But they are still going to sell, just at a lower price.

And that will be the most significant result of this change. Resale values will go down. Every single owner should be upset by this (unless they somehow know for 100% certain you will never sell.)

By entering into this agreement, the DVCMC - in my opinion - has violated it's legally mandated fiduciary duty to owners. I realize many people here don't think DVCMC has a fiduciary obligation... there's no need to rehash that debate now. But many of us to believe they have to follow what the law says and will challenge Disney. This won't cost Disney nothing. They will have to defend their actions. And who knows, they might even lose.

OK - to rehash a bit, it's clear Disney is ready for challenges. Note their language that changes only affect DVD programs. That's may very well cover them. But DVCMC is still a party to the transaction. We'll see where challenges go. Sorry for the sidetrack

Meanwhile, Disney's main product - new DVC sales - has just been hurt. While not every new buyer considers resale value. Many do. And it's now going to be tougher to sell to those people because what they are buying is now worth less.

Horrible change that it going to hurt every owner who ever has to sell.

It's not Disney's job to protect those who need to sell, actually the reverse.

If this is jim's view of a tiered benefit, he needs to be replaced!

No, tiered benefits would look more like a large point owner who has qualified points can book sooner or have more benefits, than the next owner. Anyone thinking that tiered benefits simply meant an addition of options was predictably mistaken.

 

[crisi]

Lets face it folks .. its the "slippery slope" that this change is implying in the future that is concerning. The overall change is almost irrelevant to most buyers I woudl think. But the fact that Disney made this change because their sales have tanked is not to be taken lightly.

There is a limit to what DVC can offer wrt onsite properties and perks since land availability is scarce and separation of profit centers are a reality.

This is scary change .. and I cant imagine good for any owner in the future

My own take (which will not come as a surprise to people who have been here years), is that the slippery slope started when they announced SSR. Not because its not a lovely resort - but because its HUGE. When they built a huge resort, and didn't balance the supply by creating demand (there isn't anything really standout about SSR - except the very limited treehouses), they announced in large letters that it was about SALES and PROFIT - not necessarily about creating a system with balance for the membership.

On the other hand, I think this WILL help with balance for the membership - at least those who own now or buy direct in the future. Trades have gotten very expensive because there are more DVC rooms available for CRO to sell than they can sell. To buy, in part, to cruise and then have cruises blocked out because DVC members are cruise crazy...that HAD to be disappointing. We did an ABD trip and three families were using their DVC points (we paid cash). I'd rather have those options available for those people who bought yesterday and were told they were available and close them off for those that buy resale tomorrow - then have the "available" for everyone but not really available because they fill. (Although at the same time, it wouldn't surprise me to see those options continue to diminish, and continue to stay expensive relative to the value of a point).

As always, buy for what Disney is contractually obligated to provide. Do your analysis assuming that is all you will get - you won't get resale, you won't get $100 of an annual pass, you won't have access to the dining plan. If its a good deal, buy. If its a bad deal, don't - and if you own, consider selling. Anything on top of the contractual obligations is gravy. If they are meeting the letter of their technical obligations, but falling down on the soft stuff (i.e. customer service, clean rooms), re-evaluate. For Disney, this is a business. That means that you are an easy mark if you treat it like anything but that.

 

[3 Hobbits 2 Disney]

Prospective buyers who purchase direct to get this "benefit" had better really understand the importance of this statement!

These "benefits" are not part of THEIR ownership interests either -- they are only perks which could be changed at any moment with a stroke of the Mouse's pen.

I "like" your read in the sense that I believe you have the intent nailed. This leaves open the option for other "tiered" benefits.

 

[Dean]

Sorry, I must disagree. You bought under certain terms that could or could not change, but if they did, would change for "all" owners. Now there is a differentiation between your direct points and your resales points. They are no longer the " same". Doesn't matter how they are different, whether you care if the differences affect you, or how anyone else interprets these differences. They are now not the same. Your original purchases have been devalued.

But one either knew or should have known that perks were tenuous at best. The reality is they could go away for all owners at any time.

You disagree that owners who need to sell will continue to sell, just at a lower price? What do you think those owners will do?

I think some will and some won't but DVC has ROFR. Obviously some will have to get out even if they give it away but that's no different now than it was a year ago, plus I doubt the price difference will be as much as many here think but we shall see.

In my opinion, I think this is a bad business move on Disney's part.

Such approaches have worked and worked well for other companies including Marriott to a degree but certainly Bluegreen and Wyndham.

I mean mainly that they advertise to be "different" from other timeshares. Don't think that is accurate anymore.

Never has been, IMO and I've said so here over the years. Beauty was in they eye of the beholder.

Does anyone think it possible that Disney may make future changes (to booking windows, etc.) and use March 20th as the dividing line retroactively?

I don't think so, at least not for current resorts. Frankly, I don't think they legally can and have it stand up to a challenge, at least not create a discrepancy between one group over another. They can make changes that affect all owners within the POS guidelines.

IMO I don't think this is a big deal. Most people buy DVC to stay at the resorts and not to use the cruise or book Disney adventure holidays. the main exchange RCI will be available. See this having almost no impact on resale values.

I think it will have some impact, at least in the short term. However, it can only impact sales as much as members allow it to. And it might be a buying opportunity for many if it does have a larger affect.

 

[JimMIA]

For Disney, this is a TIMESHARE business.

That means that you are an easy mark if you treat it like anything but that.

Modest edit for emphasis.

Note to prospective buyers, whether direct or resale: You're buying a timeshare, people! Wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[Husurdady]

Is that INDIANA corn?

 

[Husurdady]

WOW ! Maybe I am looking at this picture in the "long run" wrong......some one tell me that I am not, here goes;
Let say after that March cut off date, or any time there after , you get hard up for cash and you are force to sale and you go sale resale, what is your pts. value going to be worth. To me it looks like not very much.It looks like to me that DVC took the great impact of going to buy resale rather than DVC off the table.So to get as they say "all the bells and whisles", [every thing that is cutoff in March] by DvC you are forced to buy from them.........and there prices will go up more in no time. While the poor sucker can not get much at all trying to sale his on the resale market. CPA's Lawyers ....people in the "know"....tell me I am wrong.

 

[dj~merlin]

just the way we see it.

we think it's a positive measure & hoping more to come. now
that's based on the main reasons we purchased. [ we didn't buy
to sale or to start a point-renting business.].

what we like to see in the future....resales only be able to book outside
their home resorts a week later than owners. [ many here posted
they never stay @ ssr, just to get low cost points and to book
else where. way too many, that it no longer easy for regular owners
that just want to try out the other resorts. ] referring to the
7-mos. period.

also if they restrict the renting of points from resales, just for their
home resorts. then that would opened up more rooms for regular/
disney purchases instead of these renters. and that too will
make those owners @ the more desirable/expensive resorts to
rent @ higher prices.

we just did a 2 weeks stay @ our home resort. the damages being
done is something dvc need to stop. we were shocked, the type
of "guests' that we saw. [ not family types, for sure.] fyi,
i asked some if they were dvc memebers, & no surprise when
they said no. if we wanted "animal house" , we would have
rented the moivie. blt, won't last long if this isn't stop.

also, dvc should respond to make sure dvc remains what it promised the
owners.

 

[MrShiny]

WOW ! Maybe I am looking at this picture in the "long run" wrong......some one tell me that I am not, here goes;
Let say after that March cut off date, or any time there after , you get hard up for cash and you are force to sale and you go sale resale, what is your pts. value going to be worth. To me it looks like not very much.It looks like to me that DVC took the great impact of going to buy resale rather than DVC off the table.So to get as they say "all the bells and whisles", [every thing that is cutoff in March] by DvC you are forced to buy from them.........and there prices will go up more in no time. While the poor sucker can not get much at all trying to sale his on the resale market. CPA's Lawyers ....people in the "know"....tell me I am wrong.

I think your resale value is going to be pretty much the same. First, the ROFR limits how low a price can go. Second, if you are buying DVC points for the cruise or trading for other things than DVC, you are probably better off just using that money for those things!

All I can see it doing is urging first time buyers to buy direct.

 

[Sammie]

Modest edit for emphasis.

Note to prospective buyers, whether direct or resale: You're buying a timeshare, people! Wake up and smell the coffee.

I can smell it and it stinks, I could not see it, they threw pixie dust in my eyes.

 

[Sammie]

also if they restrict the renting of points from resales, just for their
home resorts. then that would opened up more rooms for regular/
disney purchases instead of these renters. and that too will
make those owners @ the more desirable/expensive resorts to
rent @ higher prices.

No way to monitor that, how is DVC even going to know it is a rental, it could just be a friend.

Personally I think this move is going to cause more rentals. In that those that were going to use resale points to book cruises, ABD and trips to other locations, will now rent and pay cash.

Or members that are wanting to sell but the bottom of the market drops out, will just rent their points and pay cash for any trips and dues rather than sell.

So I think it is going to make bookings even harder to get

Maybe DVC has just opened up a can of worms they will end up not liking.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I can smell it and it stinks, I could not see it, they threw pixie dust in my eyes.

They have already limited members from booking the Disney Collection during the last four months of the UY for that same time period. This shouldn't affect me at all. This is just a way to keep DVC from getting stuck with reservations that can't be sold and having to give away OKW and SSR as overbooking for the Value resorts.

If DVC members use their points for DVC, it won't really affect anyone, except for RCI members.

 

[MrShiny]

also, dvc should respond to make sure dvc remains what it promised the
owners.

Eh? DVC is exactly the same today and even after March as it was promised to every single person who owns TODAY.

I doubt they could change the timeshare rules for resale vs. regular. They just changed a perk, and again this does not affect any DVC owner (direct or resale) today.

Future resale buyers will be getting something slightly different, but really how much of that perk is actually used? At some point it had to reach a tipping point as those perk inventories are not increasing at the rate of DVC!

 

[Sammie]

I think your resale value is going to be pretty much the same. First, the ROFR limits how low a price can go. Second, if you are buying DVC points for the cruise or trading for other things than DVC, you are probably better off just using that money for those things!

All I can see it doing is urging first time buyers to buy direct.

What happens if DVC is flooded with ROFRs; they can't buy up everything if that market gets flooded.