Dining plan speculation that I have heard for 2008~

[BCV23]

And business is, of course, all about playing the probabilities, trading off how many people would versus how many wouldn't, taking into consideration how much the people who would contribute to profit versus the loss associated with how much the people who wouldn't would have contributed to profit.

Well, yes, that's obvious. If you noticed I did say this was just my personal preference. Every family is different. In the case of mine, we spend more dining dollars at WDW when we're not on the DDP so it is certainly not designed for a family like ours. They lose money on us

If I had a dime for every time someone said this and it turned out that XXX came to pass, I'd be a millionaire. Actually, it amazes me how much we can find this phrase associated with things that have already come to pass. I think what people want to be the Disney spirit and the actual Disney spirit differ.

A bit of hyperbole there I think. Do you have any examples? I'm expecting close to that 10 million times.

WDW is a business but does have a track record of treating all guests well....not some as second class which would be the result of such a plan IMO.

 

[Lewisc]

Many restaurants offer a priced fixed menu. Frequently the a la carte menu has items that feature more expensive ingredients that require more preparation.

I don't have a problem if the dining plan is changed and a choice of salad or soup is offered. I don't even have a problem if an appetizer sampler is offered. My only issue would be if the dining brochure isn't worded to make this clear. I wouldn't like it if the brochure promises an appetizer and all I'm offered is soup or salad but wouldn't object if the brochure simply promises me a choice of soup or salad.

Absolutely. We would still dine in the restaurants as well. We just wouldn't purchase the DDP.

But I do think the likelihood is very low that there will be preselected appetizer for only those on the DDP. Two different classes of diners just doesn't seem in the Disney spirit.

The complaints of standardization of menu would truly be valid then...at least for those on the DDP.

 

[BCV23]

But in restaurants with a priced fixed menu, no one is forced to make that choice....not even DDPers.

 

[bicker]

I think the Disney "sprit" is to exceed our (reasonable) expectations.

And each person will have their own perspective on what is the Disney spirit, and even those that agree with those words will disagree about what the words mean. And Disney will likely disagree as well, especially with regard to the distinction between objectives and absolutes ("to make every guest happy" versus "to try to make every guest happy without incurring significant additional cost").

The parks should be cleaner then our nearest 6 Flags park as an example.

With isolated issues, and extreme examples (like that one), I think we can assume a certain level of agreement. However, someone else might perceive the Disney spirit to be the parks being cleaner than Universal, and quite frankly that's probably not a necessary objective for WDW... as clean as Universal is probably clean enough.

Disney is certainly entitled to make the DDP less attractive.

And as you have pointed out many times, it may in their best interests to do so.

Disney "spirit" should prevent Disney from continuing to suggest guests will save up to 40% on their food costs with the meal plan.

Their claim is accurate this year, subject to specific but reasonable analysis. When that analysis no longer applies, the promotional materials should be updated. You're basically if things change then they should change the advertising. Things haven't changed yet, so there is no way to gauge whether they will or won't change the advertising, so there is no way to know whether there is any issue to even discuss in that regard.

My guess is the 2008 plan will cut back so much that Disney will wind up having to improve the plan. I'm not sure if they'll wait until 2009. The easiest thing may be to run promotions with dining.

Yes, and that might do the trick. I thought we DVC members were really getting an extraordinarily good deal -- now it would just be a normal deal, which is as it should be.

 

[bicker]

If I had a dime for every time someone said this and it turned out that XXX came to pass, I'd be a millionaire.

A bit of hyperbole there I think.

Generally, any statement anyone ever makes about, "If I had a dime..." is hyperbole!

The point is that there are lots of cases where people say something Disney does (or ends up doing) isn't in the Disney spirit when it obviously was (since Disney did it) and what those folks really mean is only that they don't like it, and they're trying to make their statement sound more important than it really is! In other words, people tend to use hyperbole, so in response to that I created some of my own to counter.

have a track record of treating all guests well....not some as second class which would be the result of such a plan IMO.

I disagree. Disney has a track record of treating guests who pay more better.

 

[BCV23]

The point is that there are lots of cases where people say something Disney does (or ends up doing) isn't in the Disney spirit when it obviously was (since Disney did it) and what those folks really mean is only that they don't like it, and they're trying to make their statement sound more important than it really is! In other words, people tend to use hyperbole, so in response to that I created some of my own to counter.

We are discussing someone's suggestion not WDW's intention. There has been no hint that WDW is planning to do anything like an appetizer sampler or preselected salad or soup.

To me it is extremely unlikely that such a change will be effected. To me it is contrary to the spirit or culture of WDW. No hyperbole at all in my statement. It is simply my opinion. I am certainly not trying to make my statement sound important at all! Just my opinion which is no less or more important than yours or that of anyone else.

I do disagree with you that those who pay more are treated better. Everyone who stays in a WDW resort has the same access to attractions, restaurants, transportation, ME, DDP, EMH etc..

 

[kaytieeldr]

Generally, any statement anyone ever makes about, "If I had a dime..." is hyperbole!

I agree - except this one: "If I had a dime for every time somebody said 'If I had a dime for every time ____...'", I'd be richer than bicker

 

[Lewisc]

You're correct it's my suggestion. Available evidence indicates Disney is going to be dropping the appetizer from the 2008 dining plan.

I don't think the vast majority of cash guests order an appetizer, entree and dessert for every guest at the table. JMO but dining plan patrons wouldn't be treated as second class citizens if the DDP no longer includes an appetizer.

I think offering something, as an alternative to an appetizer, such as just soup or salad, would be a nice compromise.

We are discussing someone's suggestion not WDW's intention. There has been no hint that WDW is planning to do anything like an appetizer sampler or preselected salad or soup.

To me it is extremely unlikely that such a change will be effected. To me it is contrary to the spirit or culture of WDW.

 

[momma23boys]

With speculation that DDP will have major changes, I am now looking at off site plans. DDP was really a large reason my family began staying on site. I know there are many other reasons to stay on site, just isn't worth the difference in price of the accomodations to us. I hope it doesn't change to the point it isn't worth it for us to purchase it. But if it does, I guess US and IOA here we come!!

 

[jdb0822]

I think alot comes down to how you dine.

We are a family of 7, all 5 kids under age 10, so we gravitate more toward the character meals & buffets. I always run the numbers DDP vs. non-DDP and the DDP usually wins by saving us $200-300 plus it saves us the tip.

Losing out on the tip would stink, but if we still dine the same way, we will still save some $$$. Of course, its human nature not to want to pay anything knowing that you already "pre-paid" for your meals.

I think the DDP does have one advantage for disney, it keeps Disney park visitors on property.

There are 2 major factors that make us stay on property, EMH and DDP. Losing out on either of those makes it less appealing to me IMHO. We have to get 2 rooms (at POP) or we can stay offsite at say Bonnet Creek (next to POP) and get a 2-bed villa for the price of 2 rooms at POP.

So, if the DDP does change drastically, our next trip in 2008 will most likely be at a place like Bonnet Creek, its close and roomy enough for us. Sure, we lose the themeing, but really, how much are we in the room anyways?

So, I guess we'll see what happens.

 

[rluey29]

I agree 100% we are already checking the offsite places for our next trip just in case.

 

[bicker]

I do disagree with you that those who pay more are treated better. Everyone who stays in a WDW resort has the same access to attractions, restaurants, transportation, ME, DDP, EMH etc..

We're talking about restaurants. People who pay more get treated better. They just do. Even at V&A's they've got Chef's Table. Bistro typically provides better service than Chefs. Teppanyaki provides better service than Yakitori House (obviously). Tip the server up-front, and you'll sometimes get better service all through your meal.

 

[BCV23]

You're correct it's my suggestion. Available evidence indicates Disney is going to be dropping the appetizer from the 2008 dining plan.

I don't think the vast majority of cash guests order an appetizer, entree and dessert for every guest at the table. JMO but dining plan patrons wouldn't be treated as second class citizens if the DDP no longer includes an appetizer.

I think offering something, as an alternative to an appetizer, such as just soup or salad, would be a nice compromise.

I thought the original idea was yours, Lewis. I agree that merely dropping the appetizer would not constitute second class treatment. DDPers could still order and pay OOP if they wanted an appetizer.

But limiting them to an appetizer platter or specific salad would in my opinion. Again, just my personal opinion.

Or if it was salad or soup as you first proposed, I can see lots of difficulties for servers. "No, you can't have the beet salad but you can have the romaine."

 

[BCV23]

We're talking about restaurants. People who pay more get treated better. They just do. Even at V&A's they've got Chef's Table. Bistro typically provides better service than Chefs. Teppanyaki provides better service than Yakitori House (obviously). Tip the server up-front, and you'll sometimes get better service all through your meal.

Your statement didn't specify restaurants and so I though you were making another global statement.

But I still disagree with you. We've dined at the Chef's Table and our service was no better than in the main dining room. The experience is certainly very different but not better.

We've had the same quality service at Chefs as at Bistro. There is a difference in the food but again you are paying for that difference not for better treatment.

Edited to add that when I spoke of the Disney spirit, I did mean across the board. If I call for a reservation for Pop and you for the GF, we're in the same phone queue. And as I said before, all resort guests enjoy the same access to ME, attractions, boats and buses, etc. etc. etc.

 

[OFFTONEVERLAND1]

The UK tour operators are not compelled to charge the standard price for the Dining Plan. They can price it how they wish, after they pay their "wholesale" rate. So, no, the UK tour operators likely know nothing about how much the Dining Plan will cost Americans.

How does that work for American Travel Agents can they do the same thing?

 

[bicker]

But I still disagree with you.

BIG surprise!



Seriously. I think you're wrong. You think I'm wrong. Let's move on.

 

[Lewisc]

Although I tend to agree with your point, in general there are exceptions;

Guests who call for a reservation at V&A leave the normal phone queue. Concerige level guests get last minute ADRs at popular restaurants. DME bus drivers said the GF is suppose to be the first stop, or second after POLY, even if that means having to back track. Driving past your resort so GF passengers can get dropped off first, it doesn't get more second class. POP, a value resort, is the last bus stop in most of the theme parks. There are rumors Disney is considering giving preferential fast passes to either guests that pay extra or to guests that stay in deluxe hotels.

Guests might consider themselves "second class" if the brochure promises an appetizer which winds up being a sampler or a soup/salad choice. I don't think those guests could consider themselves second class if the brochure clearly stated what the plan was including. A guest would know the plan included a house salad or soup and he would have to pay extra if they wanted an appetizer. If anything the cash guests might wonder why they're not being offered complimentary soup or salad.

Edited to add that when I spoke of the Disney spirit, I did mean across the board. If I call for a reservation for Pop and you for the GF, we're in the same phone queue. And as I said before, all resort guests enjoy the same access to ME, attractions, boats and buses, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Nancyg56]

Not really. The server just says, "This comes with the soup of the day or our house salad. Which would you prefer?"

 

[Nancyg56]

I

I think the DDP does have one advantage for disney, it keeps Disney park visitors on property.

There are 2 major factors that make us stay on property, EMH and DDP. Losing out on either of those makes it less appealing to me IMHO. We have to get 2 rooms (at POP) or we can stay offsite at say Bonnet Creek (next to POP) and get a 2-bed villa for the price of 2 rooms at POP.

So, if the DDP does change drastically, our next trip in 2008 will most likely be at a place like Bonnet Creek, its close and roomy enough for us. Sure, we lose the themeing, but really, how much are we in the room anyways?

So, I guess we'll see what happens.

I think we would consider this as well. We have stayed onsite the three times we went last year, the incentive of ME and the DDP was enough to draw us in. We did not feel the need to visit any other area attractions, nor did we visit family living fairly close by. We asked them to join us. If the changes are enough to detract from purchasing the plan we may rent a villa and visit some of the other places central FL has to offer. We'll see. I am not going to worry too much about it, if the product offered does not make sense for my family I don't buy it. If it is a value to me I buy it, and I think most people feel the same way.

 

[BCV23]

Although I tend to agree with your point, in general there are exceptions;

Guests who call for a reservation at V&A leave the normal phone queue. Concerige level guests get last minute ADRs at popular restaurants. DME bus drivers said the GF is suppose to be the first stop, or second after POLY, even if that means having to back track. Driving past your resort so GF passengers can get dropped off first, it doesn't get more second class. POP, a value resort, is the last bus stop in most of the theme parks. There are rumors Disney is considering giving preferential fast passes to either guests that pay extra or to guests that stay in deluxe hotels.

Guests might consider themselves "second class" if the brochure promises an appetizer which winds up being a sampler or a soup/salad choice. I don't think those guests could consider themselves second class if the brochure clearly stated what the plan was including. A guest would know the plan included a house salad or soup and he would have to pay extra if they wanted an appetizer. If anything the cash guests might wonder why they're not being offered complimentary soup or salad.

I agree with some of this, Lewis. If it is clearly stated in a brochure, WDW web site, DRC reservations, etc. that DDP includes a house salad, then people decide if they are willing to accept that limitation or not.

But revealing all the details of the various plans has never been a strength of WDW IMO.

Furthermore, not many WDW restaurants offer a house salad at least that I can recall. Soups at WDW tend to be relatively complex and expensive in my experience as well. Of course, restaurants could add house salads and chicken noodle soup.

Some of the other points are DIS legends. In my experience, a club level CM has no better shot at getting you a dinner reservation than the same hotel's desk concierge. They absolutely can not get you in a restaurant that is booked solid. Now perhaps there is a backdoor way to do it for a big star or politico but for the average Joe, you're out of luck.

My daughter and I took ME to the GF and we were the last stop. We stopped at the CR, Polynesian first and although I may be confusing it with another trip I think we also stopped at one of the resorts off Bonnet Creek. At any rate, she and I were the last two off that bus. Another trip we stopped at FQ, POR, CR before again being the last off the bus at the Polynesian. I'm certain we were paying more than those at POR/FQ.

You are correct that you leave the main phone queue for V&A but I suspect that is at least in part because they need to get those reservations right since the menus are personalized.

Perhaps Pop is the last bus stop. I don't take the buses a great deal but have noticed that the stops for Polynesian and GF are sometimes close at MGM and sometimes toward the end of the line.

Nancy, if WDW promised an appetizer and the server says "that comes with chicken soup or house salad," I wouldn't want to be that server. If somehow it could be clearly communicated upfront as Lewis suggested, that would be different. But it would take a huge change in how WDW has advertised their plans IMO.