Did you know the Dec 25th was not REALLY Christs Birth?

[sha_lyn]

If you tell them that it's because Spring is the season of fertility and the bunny represents the Goddess and the eggs represent fertitity (of course) then they will flat out call you a big liar.

LOL.... My mother will argue with me when I point things like that out, or at least she did. Now she's a bit better about it and has become more open minded. At least I don't get the "Pagans worship the devil and sacrifice babies" line anymore. However that is another subject altogether.

 

[Tiggerlover91]

This is one of the coolest threads I've seen on the CB board in a loooooooong time!! I like the others, but this one stands out for me because I'm so glad to hear those who say they know the truth. AWESOME...SIMPLY AWESOME!!!

 

[ibouncetoo]

Dreamer04, you're right about the census being a Roman one...just talked to my DBil yesterday (he's a biblical scholar). The census was for Agustas Ceaser's brithday of all things!! Many of the Christian traditions come more from the early Roman Catholic church (especially through Constintine) than the bible. Also the Jewish calendar was a lunar one, so very hard to translate dates to the Julian and Gregorian ones.

As other's have stated, it's celebrating the belief in our hearts that's the important thing. I personally enjoy learning about religious and spiritual beliefs of many cultures and have been known to'adopt' ones that make my heart sing!

Hope everyone has had a wonderful Christmas/Chanuka/Kwanza/Saturnalia(sp?)/Soltice etc!

 

[melk]

"Also, the census referred to is a Roman census-so the Jewish New Year would not come into play. "

This is true. Joseph and Mary had gone to Bethlehem to register because that was the place of Joseph's birth. It is highly unlikely that the Romans would have asked the Jews to register for a census like this in the winter month of December. It is more likely that the time of year was autumn. Also, when Jesus died the Bible is specific that he was 33 1/2 years old. Since he died in the spring (the Bible is specific on that date), it again would stand to reason he was born in the fall.

 

[WDWHound]

I was taught very young that we do not know the exact date of the birth of Jesus and that it likely did not happen in December. Later on I learned of the church's attempt to take over pagan holidays by placing Christmas and Easter on top of them.

To me, the actual day has never been important, its what we are celebrating that is important to Christians. I don't tend to think "Just imagine, on this day in history Christ was born". I would see no real value in that. Christmas or Easter could fall on any day of the year. Their importance lies not in when they come, but in our remembering of the events that they honor. In all honesty, I feel Christians should celebrate Christmas and Easter in our hearts everyday, but having one day a year helps us to focus our thoughts and remember together as a community.

 

[Melora]

I am thrilled that everyone is enjoying this discussion! I can tell you when I wrote it (LATE at night) I went to bed thinking, "Well I will surely be bashed into oblivion for THAT one".

There was this WONDEFUL book that I read as a teen and I am not sure what it was called (perhaps the Aquarian Gospal of Jesus the Christ, but that may not be right) and I can remember it talked about so many things about his life and the things no one talks about and how the Catholic church removed so many things from the bible because it did not suit them. Truly a wondeful read but somewhere along the line I lost it and am not even sure if I am remember the right title. It was written by a man who raised Catholic and wanted to expand his knowledge of what he was taught beyond the "Believe because we tell you to" mentality.

 

[Melora]

After looking up the aformentioned book I am not sure as to whether or not that was the one I read, but it is an interesting read in and of itself.

One of the more interesting subjects it covers is the dilution of the original bible by power hungry men throughout the years.

Many scholars recognize that the New Testament we have today is a copy of a copy of a copy and that no reliable manuscript is dated before the third century. The doctrine of reincarnation echos throughout the teachings of Christ, but the purity of Christ's teachings, about the soul being part of God, has been diluted by the copiers and the translators. Basically removed altogether from our modern bible.

History records that the early Christine church believed in Reincarnation and of the souls journey back to oneness with God.

Pope Vigilius was a vicar during the reign of Emperor Justinian in the sixth century AD. Justinian and Vigilius disagreed on whether or not the doctrine of reincarnation should be condemned as heresy or allowed to be taught in the church.
Origin's writings were considered heresy by important cardinals in the sixth century. Origen's teachings had been considered as profound spiritual wisdom for three centuries. Origen lived around 250 AD and wrote about the pre-existence of the soul and in reincarnation. He taught that the soul’s very source was God and that the soul’s was traveling back to oneness with God via Reincarnation.

Emperor Justinian wanted Origen’s writings and teachings to be condemned and destroyed but Pope Vigilius refused to sign a papal decree condemning Origen's teachings on reincarnation. As a result of his disobedience, the Emperor had the Pope arrested and put into jail. In 543, Justinian convoked the Fifth General Council of the Church and told the Pope he would sign whatever into doctrine whatever the council decided. On the way there, under guard, the Pope escaped to avoid being forced to condemn Origen’s writings. The Emperor commanded the council to continue despite the Pope’s refusal to attend.

There was a logical reason why the Emperor was opposed to the concept that all of mankind originally came from God and was returing to God via the cucle of birth and death. Justinian had been convinced by high ranking cardinals that it was not in the interest of the empire to allow Origen's writings to continue to be copied and distributed. A powerful group of Cardinal’s and Bishop’s explained that if every soul had once pre-existed with God, then Christ wasn’t anything special to have come from God. These Cardinals convinced the Emperor that if people realized they were the children of God they might begin to believe they no longer needed an Emperor, or to pay taxes, or to obey the Holy Church. But since they reasoned that only Christ had come from God but God made brand new souls at the time of conception and only the Holy Church could bring these souls to God. Without the protection of the Empire or the gudance of the church, all people would be doomed to be forever cut off from God in Hell. This doctrine was very acceptable to the Emperor. Once Justinian understood the political danger inherent in Origen’s teachings, the rest was simply an Emperor doing what was in his best interest.

The council, as instructed by the Emperor, produced fourteen new anathemas and the very first one condemned reincarnation and the concept that souls pre-existed with God.


"If anyone asserts the fabulous preexistence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema."
The Pope never signed the order, so technically it was never legal, but the Pope's signature was not needed.

I have always had a hard time with organised religion as it tends to make rules and regulations to what suits the heirarchy rather than the followers.

 

[maleficent1959]

I've read that the eight maids represent the eight beatitudes.

 

[Nutsy]

Yes, I knew that too, have done for some time.