Did you know the Dec 25th was not REALLY Christs Birth?

[Melora]

As many people know, and many many more do not Christmas was not originally on Dec 25th. There are several speculations as to why it was moved and from where, but most scholars do agree that it was not the actual day of his birth. Many place his birth in the spring months (pointing to the lambs often shown in the nativity, and that the bible speaks of shepherds tending the fields).

The reasons for the move? Well, at the time it was not a common occurance to celebrate birthdays within the religious community and it was associated with pagan rituals. In order for the religious factions (who desired to celebrate his birth) to be able to do so without being viewed pagans themselves, they chose December 25 which already hosted two other related festivals: natalis solis invicti (the Roman "birth of the unconquered sun"), and the birthday of Mithras, the Iranian "Sun of Righteousness" whose worship was popular with Roman soldiers. The winter solstice, another celebration of the sun, fell just a few days earlier. Seeing that pagans were already exalting deities with some parallels to the true deity, church leaders decided to commandeer the date and introduce a new festival.


Western Christians first celebrated Christmas on December 25 in 336, after Emperor Constantine had declared Christianity the empire's favored religion. Eastern churches, however, held on to January 6 as the date for Christ's birth and his baptism. Most easterners eventually adopted December 25, celebrating Christ's birth on the earlier date and his baptism on the latter, but the Armenian church celebrates his birth on January 6. Incidentally, the Western church does celebrate Epiphany on January 6, but as the arrival date of the Magi rather than as the date of Christ's baptism.

Another wrinkle was added in the sixteenth century when Pope Gregory devised a new calendar, which was unevenly adopted. The Eastern Orthodox and some Protestants retained the Julian calendar, which meant they celebrated Christmas 13 days later than their Gregorian counterparts. Most—but not all—of the Christian world now agrees on the Gregorian calendar and the December 25 date. (See where we get the 12 days of Christmas... Dec 25 - Jan 6?)

Anyway, thought some of you might enjoy or at least be surprised at the information.

 

[Tiggerlover91]

Excellent thread....EXCELLENT!!!!

 

[rae519]

VEry true and very well stated!

My family roots are Eastern European and the arrival of the Magi signifies the giving of gifts.....now let's just think about this for a second....

Magi bring gifts to the Christ Child.
We shop the after Christmas sales and bring gifts to our family/friends on Epiphany!

Okay, I'm in!

Rae

 

[Christine]

Yep, I knew that. I heard that Christ's birth was sometime in February or March. When the Christian's wanted to *convert* the pagans to Christianity, they felt that they could ease the pagans into it by celebrating a Christian holiday on one of the pagan holidays as a sort of compromise. Also, did you know that the "Christmas Tree" ritual stems from a pagan ritual?

 

[Disney Doll]

This is very interesting, and I never knew any of that! Thanks for sharing it with us.

 

[ibouncetoo]

...and there's the school of thought that Jesus birth was actually in September. Mary & Joseph were headed to Bethlehem for the census, which was taken at the new year (Rosh Hashannah). I also read something years ago about astronomers debating celestial events in the fall two thousand and SIX years ago!

 

[Towncrier]

Very interesting. I've heard bits and pieces of this story over the years. At least most people associate Christmas with the birth of Christ. My brother-in-law and her family were up to our house on Christmas Eve. His wife related what she thought was a cute story to us. She was discussing Christmas with her 7yo son and was surprised to find out that he didn't realize that Jesus was born on Christmas day. When she told him, he said "Get outta here!". And she thought this was funny. The rest of us found this story sad. I guess that's all you can expect out of a family that doesn't make worship a part of their lives.

So I find it interesting that my 7yo nephew was right afterall.

 

[sha_lyn]

Also, did you know that the "Christmas Tree" ritual stems from a pagan ritual?

Most Christmas rituals have Pagan roots, such as a Yule Log, Mistle toe etc. Other "Christian" rituals such as the easter bunny are also from pagan beliefs.


As for the actual birth of Christ I tend to go with the Sept date because of the census and the atrological events that occured.

 

[Tiggerlover91]

I AM DOING THE HAPPY DANCE RIGHT NOW!!!!



It is awesome to see that quite a few of my DIS friends are aware of this fact. For ALL the reasons you mentioned is why DH and I DO NOT celebrate Christmas. It's NOT his birth and so much about it comes from Pagan roots.
As for Christ's birth being in Sept, I'm going with that one too because of some studying we did in our bible study. The date isn't really known, but a few have traced it somewhere near SEPTEMBER 11TH.
Also do you honestly think that our Heavenly Father would forget to mention the birthday of his precious son in his Word??!! I mean really, the Bible is nothing but God's word, so why would he chose to not to mention for us to take a set apart day and celebrate his son's birthday?? If I'm wrong then I will humbly apologize, but I want someone to show me in the Bible, any version, where it say's Christ's birthday is on December 25th. I've been all through it and I don't see it. The Father is perfect and his word never comes back null and void. He sent his son to die for us on the cross, so why would he forget to mention his birth in December?? Does that make sense to anyone? I just wanted to throw that any there also.

Have a blessed day my friends!!

Denise

 

[Melora]

I'm afraid I celebrate December 25th in its original Pagan tradition as we are not Christian in our family, but one thing I realized (or rather my hubby pointed out to me after I had written out the info I collected) was in regard to Christs Baptism. Maybe someone else can answer...

Christ was not only born to Jewish parents who (if I am correct) did not baptise. Then the next question I have is if the reason to baptise is to rid one of the "original" sin, why did Christ need to be baptised? (The teaching always being he was born to the virgin mother, one without sin).

I am not in any way tryng to start a debate, or ruffle anyone, it was just a question hubby brought up.

And Yes Easter was also moved to coincide with the Pagen fertility rituals of spring, thus on Easter we celebrate with bunnies (those fertile little things) and paint eggs, another sign of fertility and birth.

 

[cati]

Yes, I knew this. I have always said why celebrate Jesus's birthday in DECEMBER???? It's one of the coldest months of the year. Having to trapes across the country in snow and ice is just not fun. LOL

From the way I understand it, is that Jesus was baptised to show that he was like John. He did not think of himself as "better" than anyone else. He understood what we humans went through in life. JMHO.

 

[melk]

Good thread...The history channel actually ran a show the other night that told all about the different aspects of Christmas and where they got their roots (not in the Bible). It was very interesting about how really not that long ago (about 200 years) Christmas was actually outlawed because of the unrestrained revelry (they told how people would go to others houses back in England and bang on the door, demanding items from the home owner). It wasn't until later in America that they decided to "reinvent" the holiday to make it a more appealing and American holiday and thenmany of the customs started here spread around the world. Anyway, I think the name of the show was "Christmas Unwrapped" if it's ever on again.

Melora, It's true Jesus was born without sin so that was not his reason to be baptized, but it was because he was publicly presenting himself to dedicate the rest of his life to do his father's will.

 

[Lanshark]

Christ's baptism was a public display of honor to the Father. You are correct, he had no sin but was God's word made flesh.

 

[Dan Murphy]

I'm sticking with the 25th, my final answer.

 

[Lanshark]

Dan, you're such a rebel...

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Thank you for this thread. Oftentimes I feel like I am the only one running around with this knowledge. It's nice to see that others understand. We do celebrate Christmas but with the knowledge that this date just represents a celebration of Jesus' birth, not the actual day of his birth. My mom and her husband don't celebrate Christmas at all because of the pagan roots, and I always find it hard to explain to people to the point that others start getting upset at her beliefs. Many "christian" rites and rituals come from the pagan roots, especially in the Catholic Church. I read a very interesting book about 5 or 6 years ago, I wish I could remember the name of it, that explained a lot of holiday and religious customs, rites and rituals. Do you know that even the cross is a pagan symbol and no one for sure knows which type of cross Jesus was hung on as many different kinds were used at that time?

 

[Dreamer04]

Regarding the "baptism" of Jesus Christ-the only baptism of Christ I have read about was when John baptised Him. Jesus Christ was raised and lived as a Jew-that mean He would have had a Bris-not a baptism.

Also, the census referred to is a Roman census-so the Jewish New Year would not come into play.

These are just my thoughts-if I am wrong-please quote and correct me. This is so interesting.

As far as when Christ was actually born, it doesn't matter to me. His birth was joyous; but His Resurection was glorious!

 

[septbride2002]

I just read a great book called "Stories behind the great Traditions of Christmas" by Ace Collins and here are a couple of notes from his book:

"History tells us that it took over three hundred years for the church to decide on a day on which to honor Christ's birth."

"In 320a.d. Pop Julius I had grown tired of seeing the birth of Christ celebrated on scores of different days be churches all across the empire. Though he had no particular reason for choosing it, the pope specified December 25th as the official date of the birth of Jesus Christ."

To summarize Christmas use to be big party like Mardi Gras of today. The poor would even loot the rich men's homes and there was a lot of dancing and drinking.

"In America on Christmas eve 1822 a minister and educator Clement Clarke Moore shared a poem he'd written with his children, "A Visit from St. Nicholas," now knows as "The Night Before Christmas."

"Then in 1834 when Charles Dickens's "A Christmas Carol" was published, another step was made in stressing the meaning and importance of Christmas." He goes on to say that Christmas didn't take on the shape of being a holiday focused on children and magic until the mid 1800's.

The Twelve Days of Christmas was actually a way for the Catholic Church to teach about it's faith when the faith was outlaswed in England during the 1600 century.

" patridge in a pear tree represents Jesus, the Son of God. a partridge, the only bird that will die to protect its young.

Two Turtledoves - represents the Old and New Testament.

Three French Hens - represent faith, hope, and love. This gift hearkens back to 1 Corinthians 13, the love chapter written by the apostle Paul.

Four Calling Birds - represents the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

Five Gold Rings - Five books of the Old Testament.

Six Geese a laying - Each egg is a day in creation, a time when the world was 'hatched' or formed by God.

Seven swans a swimming - Hidden in code are the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit: prophecy, ministry, teaching, exhoration, giving, leading, and compassion. As swans are one of the most beautfiul and graceful creatures on earth, they wuld seem to be a perfect symbol for the spriritual gifts.

Eight Maids a Milking - Christ came to save even the lowest of the low. Milk maids were concerned to be very poor.

Nine ladies dancing - gfits known as the fruit of the spirit. The fruits are Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, genorosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

Ten lords a leaping - 10 commandments

Eleven pipers piping - This is almost a trick question, as most think of the disciples in terms of a dozen. But when Judas betrayed Jesus and committed suicide, there were only eleven men who carried out the gospel message.

Twelve drummers drumming. - The final gift is tied directly to the Catholic Church. The drummers are the twelve points of doctrine in the Apostles' Creed."

Anyway I found the book to be extremely interesting as really our traditions come from all sorts of faiths. Martin Luthor was the one who discovered decorating a Christmas Tree.

To me it doesn't matter that we don't celebrate his birthday on the actual day - it is just important that we do celebrate it and are thankful for the wonderful gift God gave us of his son on earth to die for our sins. I guess I am easing going - I believe it doesn't matter what you have faith in - just that you have faith.

~Amanda

 

[phamton]

The "12 days of Christmas" legend is discussed on snopes: http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/12days.asp

Other Christmas urban legends can be found here: http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/christmas.asp

 

[Princess_Aurora]

From what I have always heard, it was always said Jesus was born on the 25th but what specific month was a mystery.

Me not being a Christian, I'm not afraid to celebrate my holly days in December. We celebrate Yule, the return of the sun. WARMER WHETHER ON THE WAY!!!

I think a lot of Christians are surprised at what they are actually celebrating at Christmas and Easter. If you ask most of them why they decorate eggs and tell their children that the easter bunny is coming, they won't have a clue. If you tell them that it's because Spring is the season of fertility and the bunny represents the Goddess and the eggs represent fertitity (of course) then they will flat out call you a big liar. I think a lot of people just celebrate "just because" without even bothering to find out why they celebrate the way they do.