Did Santa 2 help tank Planet?

[adrien32]

People may disagree, but I think TP didn't do as well because it's rated PG. Disney has put out some very enjoyable "G" movies that have done well (Princess Diaries and the Rookie). Santa Class II was "G" and it was fabulous. There are a lot of families, including mine, who won't take young children to PG movies -- no matter what. We haven't seen Lilo and Stitch just because of the rating.

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by adrien32
There are a lot of families, including mine, who won't take young children to PG movies -- no matter what. We haven't seen Lilo and Stitch just because of the rating.

Not to pick on your but ...Wow do you know how crazy that sounds? Why not preview the movie and determine for yourself if the movie is acceptable for your children?

 

[DanG]

Who exactly is the core group that an animated Treasure Island in outer space will appeal to? Treasure Planet may be an excellent movie, but if the base concept doesn't work for someone, a bunch of favorable critical reviews won't change your mind.

This is a studio in chaos that has no sense of identity or direction.

As to Europa's point, I will not let my younger children watch PG movies either, and sure won't waste 90 minutes of my own time checking to see if my supposition that it is inappropriate is wrong. My obligation is to my children, not to giving Disney a "fair chance."

 

[PKS44]

I understand Dan G's point about not having the time to preview movies for his kids..the problem is that the ratings boards have proven they are incompetant when it comes to making any kind of reliable determination about what is or is not worthy of a rating's change...

As for all of that- I don't worry about it...so long as I see the movie too. I have confidence that by the time my kids were old enough to sit for a movie and pay attention their values were and are sound enough that no matter what they might see in some movie they know what is and is not right...if it turns out the movie has some "inappropriate" language or behaviour, seeing it in a movie doesn't convince my kids to say or do that bad thing...I make sure they recognize it's inappropriateness--the lessons my kids are learning every day from my wife and I are stronger than any occasional exposure to some Hollywood lapse of taste or judgement. YMMV

Paul

 

[EUROPA]

Seems to be a problem with parents ...parenting to me. Not with the rating system. I can understand fully why you would not have a vested interested and determine for yourself what is acceptable for you own children. Then you would have nobody to blame.

PG:"Parental Guidance Suggested. Some Material May Not Be Suitable For Children."

This is a film which clearly needs to be examined or inquired into by parents before they let their children attend. The label PG plainly states that parents may consider some material unsuitable for their children, but the parent must make the decision.

 

[yoopermom]

with 8DS. About a dozen much younger (3-5?) children in the audience seemed very bored/talkative. DS shrugged at the end, and thought it was "ok", but I bet he doesn't even ask for it on DVD. I stopped and asked the manager if it was just my imagination, or if it was visually a very "dark" movie, and he said that they had so many complaints the first week about this (can't see the characters because the screen's so black!) that management contacted the distributors and were told, "That's the way it's supposed to be". Even the theatre manager said, "I wish Disney would put out another movie you can actually SEE!". Yawn. (Should have gone to SC for a second time, instead...)
Terri the Yoopermom

 

[Mr D]

I read a minor excerpt about why TP failed to attract moviegoers was due to the locked in agreement with McDonalds and it was delayed purposely by McD for some marketing strategy for their own reasons, this was at Miceage several days ago.

If TP was to be released say two or three weeks prior to SW Clones could it have enjoyed success?

I think it would have done well as an alternative.

If its true McD had influence over Disney in this aspect whats next while the image of themselves as a food chain is taking a nosedive?

 

[Ocean]

The notion of "classic tale" has been mentioned several times in these discussions, and I think this is a key idea that perhaps deserves more discussion. I haven't yet formed a definite opinion on this, so I'll just throw out a few observations and hope that someone will pick them up and run with them.

Let's think about some of the classic tales that have really worked: Cinderella, Snow White, Beauty & the Beast. They may be somewhat formulaic, but you can't deny their success. Does it have anything to do with people liking animated versions of things they already know? Atlantis and Lilo & Stitch were definitely unfamiliar stories. Did that unfamiliarity hurt them in any way?

People seem to have strong opinions about Tarzan. Some give it thumbs up and some thumbs down. To my mind, the key difference between Tarzan and Treasure Planet is that Tarzan kept its original setting: the jungle. While TP did some interesting things to try to maintain the seafaring ideas, that just didn't work for me. Tarzan wouldn't have worked for me either, if it had been presented as "human family gets marooned on alien planet - parents die and child is raised by three-headed creature." Think also about Oliver & Company. Yet another classic tale taken out of its original context, and yet another flop.

Along those lines, just how much can you twist a classic tale? When will it work and when will it not? I'm not familiar with the story on which the Little Mermaid was based, but a friend told me that in the "real" story, the mermaid dies at the end. In Victor Hugo's book, doesn't Quasimodo die at the end? Here are two cases where Disney drastically changed the classic tale to ensure a happy ending. In my experience, most people feel better about the Little Mermaid ending than the Hunchback of Notre Dame ending.

I've heard several people express concerns about the fact that the last three animated features were all PG rated. Regardless of the reasons for the rating, in the minds in many people, "Rated PG" and "Disney animated feature" just don't go together. Maybe that has something to do with the success or failure of the films.

Well, that's a whole lot of random typing for this hour of the night, but maybe it will give us more things for discussion.

 

[LOVETHATMOUSE]

I don't visit this board too often, but this thread caught my eye. I have a 7yr dd. She is always asking why Disney is making so many "boy movies" (that is what she calls them). She did like L&S, but has no interest in seeing TP, hated Atlantis and EMG. She keeps asking me why can't they make more princess movies like Little Mermaid (her fave), B&B (2nd fave), Sleeping Beauty - well, you know what I mean.

When I was a cm, I couldn't even count how many times guests complained about this. It seems that Disney is getting away from the basics. Don't get me wrong - I love Disney movies,but lately the animated ones are lacking something. Princesss Diaries was an absolutely wonderful movie - still watch it everyother week or so on DVD. It was funny, sad, happy - everything a good Disney movie is. Soooo many guests came into my store looking for merchandise from the movie - that's how popluar it was. What did we have? The CD soundtrack and that is all! T-shirts, crowns from Genovia, a "real princess diary" - the possiblities were endless. Too bad they missed the boat on that one. What are the stores filled with now? Merchandise from TP - and it is not selling.

I have seen the promos for the next animated feature and it doesn't look any better. Give me a good old fashioned tear-jerking, good value, family movie - we need it!!

 

[tinybubbles]

Originally posted by PKS44
I am not saying anything about whether the movie is worthy of such reviews or not...just that the notion that this proves that quality does not play a deciding role is shaky with regard to TP, given the mixed range of publicized opinions on this movie.

Reviewers frequently have a poor perception of how good a movie is or isn't. And many are paid for positive reviews by the studios. Remember all those glowing reviews for Phantom Menace?

Face it: TP is a lousy movie. I went with great anticipation, yet I couldn't wait for it to end so I could get out of there. It is a pretty movie, but the story line is so murky that you would have to have read Treasure Island several times to be able to follow it.

As soon as I saw it I knew it was going to be a major bomb.

 

[DisneyFanGuy]

(responding to Lovethatmouse)

I thought that Lilo and Stitch WAS a traditional "Disney" movie in the sense that it had heart. It REALLY got to me and my family, even though it was wrapped up as kind of an alien buddy movie. I felt the old Disney "heartstrings" being tugged in the biggest way at an animated movie since Lion King. I drag my fat old 42 year old self to every Disney animated movie that I can and I bring my wife and kids too. Lilo and Stitch was a flat out winner that Disney may have underpromoted. I couldn't understand how it only did 150 mil. in box office. (By the way.....we LOVED Princess Diaries too!)

Spirited Away was the best animated film that I have ever seen in terms of story. Disney didn't make it, but they had it and REALLY blew that one too.

Disney's problem these days is that they lack visionaries IMHO. Everything hits me like a Power Point presentation........and what I mean by that is a calculated attempt to give me "what I want" right down to basing it on "what I wanted before". I can see the little blue graphs in my head.

Need some examples?

Can you see the presentation for Flicks Fun Fair? It was based on using money efficiently to resolve a complaint at DCA that kids didn't have enough to do.

DCA, AK, and the Disney Studios in Paris open with very few attractions. (Sorry.....even the most creative shops and restaurants don't count) The presentation for that probably showed the need to even out how capital is allocated between things that drive revenue (shops and restaurants) and things that don't (attractions). Paul Pressler did often say that theme parks were really just giant retail opportunities.

But every now and again, something really cool breaks through the clutter. Lilo and Stitch broke through for me. To a lesser degree, The Emperor's New Groove did too, although it hit me more in the funny bone than in the heart. Treasure Planet and Atlantis did not.

The problem is that the things that make me go "wow" are usually things that came from vision and not "studies, budgets, and calculations".

 

[adrien32]

Good point about the lack of Princess Diary merchandise. My daughter has been wanting a diary like the one in the movie, and I was surprised that I couldn't find anything. Maybe they'll wise up if they do a sequel.

 

[Planogirl]

Originally posted by adrien32
Good point about the lack of Princess Diary merchandise. My daughter has been wanting a diary like the one in the movie, and I was surprised that I couldn't find anything. Maybe they'll wise up if they do a sequel.

With Disney's current mindset, I think it's more a matter of WHEN they'll do a sequel rather than if.

I wish that I'd ever had the chance to see Treasure Planet. I couldn't get anyone else interested in seeing it including my son and I had no desire to see it alone (and frankly no strong desire to see it at all). The lack of interest in this movie surprises me and I wonder how this came about? I prefer the animated fairy tales myself but why did so few others want to see this film?