Did everyone know?

[lovetoscrap]

I grew up in a small conservative town. Several of my best guy friends were a bit "different". Young and naive and sheltered I never realized why. But when I got to college and expanded my horizons it became clear--"Oh, they are gay." Not a big deal to me, just sad that we had all wandered apart and I had no idea what was going on in their lives.

Now about 15-20 years later I find out that 2 have come out, of course a very painful and scary process for them with a lot of bumps on the road. And letting their childhood friends know has been very hard and the last thing they did AFAIK. They are both now in great relationships and in great places in their lives. One is still not ready to contact any of us and is scared how we will react. I have no idea what else is going on in his life. (I have heard this from someone who has been in contact with him)

When they came out I just felt relieved that they were finally ready to reconnect, finally secure enough to trust us, and am thrilled to hear from them. And through the years I have talked to others from our social group and we have all agreed that we have known for years that they were gay. We always knew they were, we just didn't have the word for it 20 years ago. I haven't talked to anyone that has a problem with it, but we all agree we just want them to be happy and accept themselves and be able to love themselves as much as we do.

When you came out did your long time friends did they seem surprised or just relieved you finally did? Did you find that all those years you may have been struggling to figure yourself out that those around you already "knew"? Did that make it better or worse for you? Were you surprised, relieved, angry, hurt? I am just trying to understand this from the friend position. 2 of these guys (one out and the one not out yet) were absolutely my best friends and love them dearly. The later one and I were mistaken for brother and sister once and that became a joke we carried on for years, and truly he was like a brother to me. I so want to fly to him and hug him and shake him and tell him to just be himself and let us all be his friend because we all know and we all miss him. (don't worry, I won't!)

 

[Uncle Remus]

Oh my, you say y'all didn't have a term or word for it 20 years ago?

Let me see, I came out in 1967 when I was 14 years old. They called it sexual deviance back then and I was promptly committed to the State Asylum for the Insane, that was what they called that place back then. My state assigned psychiatrist and I met on my 4th day there and he told me to stay outta trouble for the remainder of my 90 day involuntary commitment. Three days before I was discharged he told me not to tell anyone else I was gay. I've been out and I mean OUT since then, no big deal to most folks I meet. And when anyone does have an objection to my identity, it's not much of a big deal to me either.

 

[Mackey Mouse]

Can I just give you the biggest hug I can through the computer Uncle Remus..

Dear God, I cannot believe I grew up then... how did I get through to become the person I am when all that was going around me. Sometimes I think of being brought up by a cop, yeah I said a cop, and the things I heard in that house, just made me who I am. I loved my Dad but Archie Bunker does not do him justice, and so I went the other way running, reaching out to people who dare to be who they are.. I am a straight woman, happily married, who treasures her gay friends and would have it no other way.

Probably the reason I love it here, hanging out, and why I can count Mike as my friend and Lindy too now.. and hopefully the rest of you as well. Not trying to sound like Pollyanna, I know you understand what I mean..

Uncle Remus, I am still older than you, I must be the oldest person on the Dis.. Hugs..

 

[DVCajun]

Oh my, you say y'all didn't have a term or word for it 20 years ago?

Let me see, I came out in 1967 when I was 14 years old. They called it sexual deviance back then and I was promptly committed to the State Asylum for the Insane, that was what they called that place back then. My state assigned psychiatrist and I met on my 4th day there and he told me to stay outta trouble for the remainder of my 90 day involuntary commitment. Three days before I was discharged he told me not to tell anyone else I was gay. I've been out and I mean OUT since then, no big deal to most folks I meet. And when anyone does have an objection to my identity, it's not much of a big deal to me either.

Oh. My. God. Uncle Remus.

And people talk about the "good ole days."

 

[lovetoscrap]

It was a very small town, very conservative and it just never occured to us that anyone we knew might be "gay". I know that I really didn't understand what that meant. I have talked to many of our other friends that have agreed. We just didn't know what homosexual was then, but when I grew up a little and made some friends in college that were gay it was very clear. Not because of stereotypes, but because of lots of little things said and done over the years.

It is heartbreaking to think of what you and so many others have gone through. 90 days in a "hospital"??? That is what is Insane! We have come a long way in 40 years, and even in the last 20, but there is still such a long way to go.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

Jaysus, Mary and Joseph, Uncle Remus.

Regarding coming out to friends, I had what I considered a BFF. Although, we didn't use those terms 'back then.' LOL.

When I told her, she ceased all contact...so much for the last F in the acronym.

Years later she tracked me down through my Mother and called. We had a bit of a chat, but that was it. Never heard from her again, nor do I miss her any longer.

I am a very private person, so she really was the only one who had the potential to "hurt" me by her behavior. It's amazing what really doesn't hurt, when you were so certain it would.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

Oh, meant to say perhaps not having the language to describe being gay 20 years ago was more regional than anything?

A beloved person in my life died of AIDS in 1981. Yes, he was gay. We had the language then, eh?

 

[zeitzeuge]

I wanted to stop by and say that I completely understand you when you mentioned that you "didn't know the word for it" back then. I see some people taking offense, or maybe I'm just reading that wrong.

I grew up in a very small midwestern town. I was called *** my entire time growing up and honestly not exactly sure as to what they meant. I knew I was different somehow and they tagged me with that name since as early as I can remember. I knew it was a bad term because it made me feel horrible hearing it, but I didn't fully understand why they were calling me that. I'm being totally honest, I was clueless.

It's not that we didn't have the terms Homosexual, gay, queer or any of the others, but in a small midwestern town growing up, you just didn't use those words or didn't hear them for that matter. Grow up Pentecostal like I did and you REALLY didn't hear those words. I knew of one gay couple in my hometown and everyone talked about them. All I understood was that two men were living together.

I didn't feel that we had many Gay icons to look up to on TV or anywhere else like we do today. Artist, musicians and actors were suspected as being gay back then, but we had no proof really. People didn't come out back then like they do now.

I had a slight understanding of what *** and Gay meant, but it wasn't until I had my first experience when I was in Grad school (yes, my religious upbringing kept me in full denial up until I was 25 years old) did I FULLY understand what the term meant. I left that experience a changed person, like a blind person being able to see for the first time in his life. I can't even begin to describe the feeling.

Call me naive. I know that I was. I lived in a bubble. A very protected one. Being gay to me growing up meant being like Liberace or Elton John. I kid you not. I looked at those men and said, I'm not like that so I can't be gay.

Growing up and getting away from home opened me up to a whole new world. Me coming out opened up my family to this whole new world as well.

The chain of ignorance has been broken in my family finally.

 

[PeterPan09]

I remember being called a "****" in 2nd grade and I had NO idea what that term meant. I'm fairly sure the kid who called me that had no idea either. He just knew that I kept beating him in HORSE while we waited for the school bus and it ticked him off.

I'm fairly sure if you asked the direct question to any of my family or friends, they would say-"yeah, she's gay"-or what they would more likely say is "None of your (fill in the blank) business. Ask her if you want to know". It's just something anyone discusses. I don't know what they thought when I was with my ex. She was included in invites, even though she rarely accepted-when she did she was welcomed. Even my fundie cousin has always treated me with love, so if he and his family are secretly praying for my "conversion" it's not mucking up my day. I'm so lucky when it comes to family, it defines the term "grace", an unmerited blessing.

 

[Goofyluver]

Goodness gracious. all around.

In regards to coming out to friends and family, as I did so, the reaction I received was one of love and acceptance from most everyone. It wasn't as if it was a large revelation for anyone in my life.

As a young teen, my family was less supportive. I'll leave it at that.

There will always be those ignorant people. The love and support of others tends to drown those people out.

 

[KPeveler]

I am 24 and STILL arguing with parents about it. I've been out to friends for a decade, out to them for 6 years, and they are still waiting for the "phase" to end/. they are going to have a long wait - i am getting married!!

in general, none of my friends cared or were even that surprised. in fact, i face much more difficulty in life trying to be accepted as a disabled adult, not a gay adult...

 

[Uncle Remus]

lovestocrap brings up a good point in asking do we know what it is and what do we call it.

Kids nowadays have some differences that some of us didn't experience. In some ways the internet has taken even people from the small midwestern towns to a big broad world, yet it's also opened kids up to more harassment and plain ol' hatefulness out there too. The political climate in this country also plays a major part in defining various groups. I've said it before, what the hell is the gay "lifestyle" and what is the gay "agenda" as if we now need more derogatory words to include in our vocabulary. I'm pretty sure we all know the words used to define us and some of them are pretty hurtful especially to youthful minds, but it's the subliminal language used that I think does the most harm in that there's a message there that says we're different from the whole of society and deserving of condemnation. How many times will we be accused of recruiting children with the juxtaposition of "indoctrination" and the word education when the gay "lifestyle" is "promoted" in elementary schools because the library carries the book Heather Has Two Mommies?

I remember Harvey Milk:

"Somewhere in Des Moines or San Antonio there is a young gay person who all the sudden realizes that he or she is gay; knows that if their parents find out they will be tossed out of the house, their classmates will taunt the child, and the Anita Bryant's and John Briggs' are doing their part on TV. And that child has several options: staying in the closet, and suicide. And then one day that child might open the paper that says "Homosexual elected in San Francisco" and there are two new options: the option is to go to California, or stay in San Antonio and fight. Two days after I was elected I got a phone call and the voice was quite young. It was from Altoona, Pennsylvania. And the person said "Thanks". And you've got to elect gay people, so that thousand upon thousands like that child know that there is hope for a better world; there is hope for a better tomorrow. Without hope, not only gays, but those who are blacks, the Asians, the disabled, the seniors, the us's: without hope the us's give up. I know that you can't live on hope alone, but without it, life is not worth living. And you, and you, and you, and you have got to give them hope."
-Harvey Milk, 1978



And Mackey Mouse, thanks for bein' older than me.
btw, I was raised by a cop too, course, I grew up to be a cop.

 

[ChrizJen]

First, Uncle Remus -
Thank you for sharing your experience. How aweful for you. I never knew.
And HUGE hugs to all others who lived through hell for being gay.
Second, OP...When I came out, I think people were shocked. Even though I was very athletic in my youth, I was still always very feminine. I never acted on the feelings I had from a somewhat early age. I always just pretended to play along with the "norm". So when I came out to myself, and then to the rest of the world, I think they were surprised. But I've known people who were obviously gay from a very young age. There are a couple of people I went to school with whom I would be SHOCKED if they weren't gay.

As for the OP's comment about not having a word for it, I think it's not so much where she's from or the time period in which she grew up. I think it's more the age factor. When you're young and (sometimes naive and sheltered ), you don't necessarily have the words to describe some things. Sometimes it takes getting out into the real world (or college) and learning a thing or two about life to figure it all out and to put words to it.

I'm a good example of that myself. I knew in grade school and middle school that I was different from my friends. I just had no clue why or how I was different. It really wasn't until well into high school that I even started questioning my sexuality.

Anywho...I'll stop babbling now.

OP: as for your friend who's not yet out, have you considered maybe dropping a few innocent hints his way? Or maybe let him know via your mutual friends that you know and that you love him just the way he is, and that you miss him? I hate the though that you're missing all of this time just because he's afraid.

Good luck

 

[Uncle Remus]

Hey y'all while I'm enjoyin' the hugs (who wouldn't ) it wasn't all that bad, I met some really wonderful 'n strange folks durin' my 90 day stay.

What I wanted to add is that after graduating from high school every so often I'd get a phone call from someone I went to school with and they'd say I just wanted to tell you I'm gay too. Ya know how I'd answer 'em? I most times said No kiddin'! like I didn't already know.

I didn't have much choice on comin' out in high school since everyone knew I'd been in the "state" hospital, but I was "popular" because I also led the "sit-ins" (yeah, it was the '60's) for long hair and get this, smoking on campus. Can you believe that? The school board approved both "agendas," we got to grow long hair and smoke!!

 

[disney's daughter]

One of my granddaughters (nine years old) was eating dinner at our house the other day....when she said, "Nana, Ellen is gay, isn't she?" I said, "Ellen?"...She replied..."Yes..You know...Ellen...Don't you think her wife is beautiful? She's just adorable... Ellen is really lucky to have her.." I just shook my head...and said "Yes"..."Do you know what gay means?" and she replied.."Yep".....(obviously, it was no big deal to her)

You have to remember...I am the grandmother, not the mother and although I try to guide my grandchildren...the best that I can...I can't put my ideas or beliefs on to them...AND..I take my cue from my daughter-in-law..

When my daughter-in-law picked up my granddaughter...I told her about our dinner conversation...She said to me..."WHO told her about Ellen and being gay?" I looked at her and told her that I didn't bring it up...but, that my granddaughter did. She turned to my granddaughter and said..."WHERE did you learn about ELLEN and being GAY?"......My granddaughter smiled and replied..."Reading your PEOPLE magazines..." Then she didn't miss a beat...and continued on....gushing about their wedding outfits and the flowers...All of my grandchildren don't think anything of being gay or not...It's their parents who are uncomfortable with it...

I don't understand it..You'd think I would be the one...I was born in 1950...and didn't understand..(really I didn't) why "whites" ate on one side of the cafeteria at school and "blacks" ate on the other side... I have no problem if one is gay or not...Never did. My grandchildren are the same way...and I am so glad...

I think it is absolutely horrible what happened to you, Uncle Remus....

 

[wallyb]

Well I'll never forget it ... (in my best sophie tucker)

Now I'm not a violent person at all... I have a looooong fuse-
but I was having bad day...
I was in 9th grade and one of the 3 or 4 boys who loved to dog me was at it again between classes -
so I decided I'd heard (3 letter word - sounds like gag) one too many times that day - and snap
- I picked him up by the front of his throat and tossed him into the lockers.

He never bothered me again.

 

[Uncle Remus]

I think it is absolutely horrible what happened to you, Uncle Remus....

Actually, I lucked out with havin' a doctor who said hey, there's lots of kids and adults like you, explained homosexuality to me 'n said stay outta trouble.


I wonder how many "patients" didn't get that kinda doctor/"treatment."


One of the best ways kids can realize they're gay is by hearing and seeing the stories of other gays (celebrities, other family members 'n friends).

The kids I do worry about are those in rigid religious environments, especially those who support that pray the gay away philosphy. Those kids believe God wants them to change their very being since we all believe self improvement is a good thing. I doubt that these smaller communities have churches that welcome gays with open arms so the subliminal message is there's no place for gay kids since church is a bigger part of life for those kinda communities than a larger metropolitan area. And if there's no gays in the churches or the schools, People Magazine, TV and of course, the internet is an alternative, but I still wish kids had grandmothers like you, disney's daughter.


And thank goodness for those folks who keep us from gettin' in trouble.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

I don't think anyone is objecting to the OP's comment about not having words to describe being gay. For me it was more of an attempt at an explanation for why we/I did!

Wallyb, your "incident" caused me to flash on Brian Kinney. Sometimes, you have just had enough.

 

[PeterPan09]

Actually, I lucked out with havin' a doctor who said hey, there's lots of kids and adults like you, explained homosexuality to me 'n said stay outta trouble.


I wonder how many "patients" didn't get that kinda doctor/"treatment."


One of the best ways kids can realize they're gay is by hearing and seeing the stories of other gays (celebrities, other family members 'n friends).

The kids I do worry about are those in rigid religious environments, especially those who support that pray the gay away philosphy. Those kids believe God wants them to change their very being since we all believe self improvement is a good thing. I doubt that these smaller communities have churches that welcome gays with open arms so the subliminal message is there's no place for gay kids since church is a bigger part of life for those kinda communities than a larger metropolitan area. And if there's no gays in the churches or the schools, People Magazine, TV and of course, the internet is an alternative, but I still wish kids had grandmothers like you, disney's daughter.


And thank goodness for those folks who keep us from gettin' in trouble.

That subliminal message is very strong. You really do think that every bad thing that happens is because you're gay and you haven't "cured" yourself. Realizing that message was in my head all these years despite the kindness of the clergy and religious that I've had contact with was quite a revelation.

 

[Jeff90]

Oh my, you say y'all didn't have a term or word for it 20 years ago?

Let me see, I came out in 1967 when I was 14 years old. They called it sexual deviance back then and I was promptly committed to the State Asylum for the Insane, that was what they called that place back then. My state assigned psychiatrist and I met on my 4th day there and he told me to stay outta trouble for the remainder of my 90 day involuntary commitment. Three days before I was discharged he told me not to tell anyone else I was gay. I've been out and I mean OUT since then, no big deal to most folks I meet. And when anyone does have an objection to my identity, it's not much of a big deal to me either.

And I thought the 80's were bad......yikes!