Details of WDW's High Speed Rail Station

[DC7800]

I'm just baffled why people are so against it or think it wont happen

Welcome to my world.

However, I feel compelled to point out that if you've followed developments in passenger rail for very long, you've been fooled before. There have been projects which were really as much of a "done deal" as the Florida high-speed project - and never happened.

 

[nytimez]

Welcome to my world.

However, I feel compelled to point out that if you've followed developments in passenger rail for very long, you've been fooled before. There have been projects which were really as much of a "done deal" as the Florida high-speed project - and never happened.

Maglev, anyone?

 

[wdwpins]

This is a waste? HUH?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQk87sXTQ28

 

[mousermerf]

Welcome to my world.

However, I feel compelled to point out that if you've followed developments in passenger rail for very long, you've been fooled before. There have been projects which were really as much of a "done deal" as the Florida high-speed project - and never happened.

HSR is to the point of soil engineering and clearing the right of way - Maglev never got that far. Not to mention the funding is in place.

 

[jerivera]

Hey, all I know is that if it's cheaper to fly to Tampa and take a HSR than it is to fly to Orlando (and it IS), I WILL be doing that. And likely, so will quite a large number of other folk.

I love how people say something's a waste w/o even giving it a try. Let this trial HSR be built, and judge it based on its performance. Somehow it seems to have worked for the rest of the world.

Is the concern that Americans are too slow to learn how to use it? Or that we're too "big" *cough*waist-wise*cough* that the train won't move or something??

If everything in life were up to the naysayers and cheapskates, we'd still be a British colony ("It's too expensive to wage war, I say!" "We'd just loose!" "Look at the CBA numbers! Just pay the dang tea taxes, dagnabit!"). And we'd never have gone to the moon, or invented the internet, or blah blah blah...

 

[phorsenuf]

Hey, all I know is that if it's cheaper to fly to Tampa and take a HSR than it is to fly to Orlando (and it IS), I WILL be doing that. And likely, so will quite a large number of other folk.

I love how people say something's a waste w/o even giving it a try. Let this trial HSR be built, and judge it based on its performance. Somehow it seems to have worked for the rest of the world.

Is the concern that Americans are too slow to learn how to use it? Or that we're too "big" *cough*waist-wise*cough* that the train won't move or something??

If everything in life were up to the naysayers and cheapskates, we'd still be a British colony ("It's too expensive to wage war, I say!" "We'd just loose!" "Look at the CBA numbers! Just pay the dang tea taxes, dagnabit!"). And we'd never have gone to the moon, or invented the internet, or blah blah blah...

But at 60 bucks per person and the hassle of getting your luggage from the plane, lugging it to the train station, then sitting on a train for an hour and then again in reverse?

I've always priced out flights to both airlines and I've usually found Orlando to be cheaper. When it's not though, it's not by much. Maybe it depends where you fly from.

I really like the idea of HSR, just wish it was more affordable on the Tampa/WDW link. Now HSR between Tampa and Boston.....I'd love that!!

 

[mousermerf]

TGV interlines with airlines like Continental and others. You essentially can fly into CDG (that's Paris, btw) and take the train to your final destination far cheaper then buying the tickets separately. As mentioned on the HSR website, they fully intend to integrate the various systems. Right now the gap is between the Tampa airport and the Tampa HSR station, which Tampa intends to fill with light rail (because HSR in that tight corridor with essentially zero government owned right-of-way just wont work).

So in theory, by 2017 (when TPA's light rail should be completed) you'd hop off the plane at Tampa International, hop on the light rail right there at the airport, transfer to the HSR (your tickets are all included in your airfare purchase) and then hop off at Lakeland, WDW, or International drive - heck even MCO if the airfare was that much cheaper.

 

[mousermerf]

But at 60 bucks per person and the hassle of getting your luggage from the plane, lugging it to the train station, then sitting on a train for an hour and then again in reverse?

I've always priced out flights to both airlines and I've usually found Orlando to be cheaper. When it's not though, it's not by much. Maybe it depends where you fly from.

I really like the idea of HSR, just wish it was more affordable on the Tampa/WDW link. Now HSR between Tampa and Boston.....I'd love that!!

And a big point you're misunderstanding, TPA-WDW is not $30 each way, that's TPA to MCO. You're going halfway, just like MCO-WDW is halfway. It's $15 each way with options for all kinds of discounts.

 

[mousermerf]

One more thing - don't forget the intention to extend the line to Miami in phase 2.

For all intents and purposes MCO will be the the hub for the main system and building the shortest line with the most known traffic (to Tampa) to get everything setup makes the most sense. Then after the main investment to get the "test" built is proven functional and viable, Miami comes online and the whole system makes obvious sense.

 

[phorsenuf]

And a big point you're misunderstanding, TPA-WDW is not $30 each way, that's TPA to MCO. You're going halfway, just like MCO-WDW is halfway. It's $15 each way with options for all kinds of discounts.

WDW is not in the middle between MCO and TPA.
It's 64 miles from TPA to Disney and 16 miles from MCO to Disney. Big difference.

Now HSR to Miami would be nice.

 

[mousermerf]

WDW is not in the middle between MCO and TPA.
It's 64 miles from TPA to Disney and 16 miles from MCO to Disney. Big difference.

Now HSR to Miami would be nice.

It's the middle station.

 

[nytimez]

I'm just baffled why people are so against it or think it wont happen.

You answered your own question.

The HSR project for Florida is 50% funded by federal grants already, it is the top candidate for any further federal funds

+

the contract stipulates that the winner of the operational contract is responsible for the profits or losses from the service without aid from the state.

+

Yes, we gouge the non-locals. Welcome to Florida and the reason we don't pay state taxes.

=

An expensive boondoggle paid for largely by non-Flordians. When non-Floridians come to use it, you charge them more for it. When it fails, you'll just shut it down rather than use local money. Why not? You didn't pay for it.

I'm actually for high-speed rail and I think long-distance rail in the U.S. is an absolute disgrace. But high-speed rail between Orlando and Tampa is simply unsustainable. And I don't know the city of Orlando that well, but I do know that the infrastructure of Tampa isn't set up to accommodate rail passengers.

The point of the system isn't just to get people from Tampa to Orlando and WDW, it is -- or should be -- to get people into Tampa, and not just to catch a flight with the airport.

Except once they get to Tampa, they can't actually go anywhere or do anything because public transportation here is a joke and the light-rail will never, ever be completed in any meaningful way. The last proposal I saw had a completion date of 2035... for just 40 miles of rail around the Tampa area.

 

[PHILCT]

I'm glad there will be some new Mass Transit for the typical Tourist MCO to WDW areas. It will mean a lot less cars and buses on the highways.

But how many locals will be encouraged to use Mass Transit in Central Florida? How many Florida residents will actually take a train from Orlando to Tampa?

I wonder what Florida is going to do to encourage LOCALS to hop on those trains and give up their cars for commuting. Or will the average local person say "HECK NO, I ain't gonna ever ride a bus, and I am never gonna ride the train, let the cast members and tourists ride it".

I rode the commuter bus back and forth to work for over 30 years.

Even Disney has figured out that it isn't always economical to expand the Monorail throughout it's World, but to focus on just the key areas of it's main operations.

 

[mousermerf]

Well, we're back at the "how many people will ride it?" question...

What exactly do you propose be done to answer that question short of building the system and seeing what happens? Ya know aside from all the ridership studies that have been completed already and fully justify the existence of the system and computed price points based on what people were willing to pay.

And for funding, who has the right to federal funding? This funding is going to hsr, it's not going to anything else, and Florida has certainly paid in its fair share.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

This is a waste? HUH?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQk87sXTQ28

I'm trying to figure out why I watched that to the end.. I guess I thought something exciting was going to happen at the end..

MG

 

[nytimez]

Well, we're back at the "how many people will ride it?" question...

What exactly do you propose be done to answer that question short of building the system and seeing what happens? Ya know aside from all the ridership studies that have been completed already and fully justify the existence of the system and computed price points based on what people were willing to pay.

And for funding, who has the right to federal funding? This funding is going to hsr, it's not going to anything else, and Florida has certainly paid in its fair share.

I'm generally not in favor of any project that costs billions of dollars just to "see what happens." Also, by what measure do you believe that Florida has "certainly paid in its fair share?"

I am going to make three predictions:
1) It will not be completed on time
2) It will not meet its current budget estimate
3) It will not be able to sustain itself financially

Here's a bonus one:
4) The extension to Miami will never be completed, even though that part of the project makes a lot more sense than Tampa-Orlando.

 

[mousermerf]

What else can they do besides all the studies were done? You just don't want it so you keep ignoring that there are studies and they do favor the creation of the rail. What else can possibly be done?

You have no proof on your side and you just made up assertions that it will fail.

What's your next trick? Declaring the sky isn't blue?

 

[nytimez]

What else can they do besides all the studies were done? You just don't want it so you keep ignoring that there are studies and they do favor the creation of the rail. What else can possibly be done?

You have no proof on your side and you just made up assertions that it will fail.

What's your next trick? Declaring the sky isn't blue?

I admire your optimism. But you don't have any more evidence than I do. There is not a thing you can say here that is any more valid than what I have to say on it.

And even the studies you vaguely refer to aren't close to anything resembling agreement.

Carl Hiassen wrote one of the best pieces on this boondoggle:

Connecting Tampa, Orlando and Miami by high-speed rail is a scheme that's been chugging around for decades, and the prospects for profitability are the same today as they always were: Nil.
The money delivered by President Barack Obama last week in Tampa should have come with a note: "Here's a gift from Uncle Sam. Now go build yourselves something you can't possibly afford to operate.''
​

 

[Oglet]

I like the idea in theory, how it works out is a huge unknown. One thing if it helps reduce traffic on I4 then its a good thing however I don't know just how many regular I4 drivers will use it considering the costs involved, especially those that travel in larger groups.

I have a gut feeling that the costs will be way over budget, it will probably be open later than originally expected and the costs that have been quoted will probably be higher due to the extra money needed to complete the project and the fact that rail wages are higher than average wages, its not like it will be run and operated by Disney workers that are paid low wages.

I'm not so confident that it can be run profitably and effectively, hopefully I am wrong and it is as good as it sounds only time will tell.

 

[skiingfast]

miamiherald.com/2010/01/31/1454259/fast-trains-are-cool-and-very.html"]wrote one of the best pieces[/URL] on this boondoggle:

Connecting Tampa, Orlando and Miami by high-speed rail is a scheme that's been chugging around for decades, and the prospects for profitability are the same today as they always were: Nil.
The money delivered by President Barack Obama last week in Tampa should have come with a note: "Here's a gift from Uncle Sam. Now go build yourselves something you can't possibly afford to operate.''
​

I disagree. This is a terrible piece and the information included is errant.