Details of WDW's High Speed Rail Station

[mousermerf]

From the Florida High Speed Rail org website: http://www.floridahighspeedrail.org/hsr-connections/

Walt Disney World Station
FDOT is planning to construct a station to service Walt Disney World (WDW). This station is intended to provide a HSR connection to more than 40 million annual visitors to WDW, one of America’s most popular tourist destinations. This station also may have strong linkages to Celebration, a successful neo-traditional, master-planned community developed over the past two decades.

WDW has pledged to contribute up to 50 acres of their land, valued at approximately $25 million, toward locating a HSR station to serve their resort. WDW also has pledged to extend their internal transportation system to the station to connect passengers to resort destinations and work with FDOT to resolve any regulatory and land use issues in connection with building a station at the site. WDW’s grant is subject to approval by WDW of the site, design of the station and use of the site for any purposes other than rail passenger support. WDW also made the grant conditioned upon their option to operate the station and to build a parking facility for the station. Transit-oriented development opportunities at the WDW station would be subject to WDW approval.

Local roadway connections to this future WDW sight would likely be provided by U.S. 192 as well as S.R. 427 and I-4.

 

[mousermerf]

Also, general info on all HSR stations, thus applicable to WDW station:

Each station area will likely be designed with two to four tracks to accommodate a range of future train operating scenarios. Each station will include the following elements:

Covered rail platforms.
Secure air conditioned waiting areas with ticketed passenger convenience retail, passenger services and restroom facilities.
Common ticketing areas and public restrooms with general retail services and operational support areas as warranted.
Parking facilities.
Day and seamless hourly rental car facilities.
Kiss-and-ride, taxi, limo and bus circulation areas.

Seamless Hourly Car Rentals
New to urban markets, companies like Zip Car and Hertz Connect are now marketing express hourly car rentals. The service is available to members who have a rental car activation card about the size of a credit card. Members make a reservation by phone or online. Upon arrival at their destination, they go to their reserved car, swipe the card across the transponder and access their car. No lines. No waiting. Typical rates are $7 per hour, including gas and insurance plus 85 miles. Upon return, they are automatically charged the hourly rate. Membership fees are typically $50 per year. It is fast and seamless and can provide connection options to destinations not served by transit, particularly for the business traveler.

Seamless Connectivity
Each HSR station presents opportunities to establish seamless connections between high speed trains and local connecting options. This is less about the actual physical infrastructure and connecting technologies than coordinating these components to work together. The expertise and technology is available to make connections at each station seamless and is already deployed in other countries. Florida residents who use SunPass can envision a similar pass that would work between all transportation modes. Here is what it means in real terms:

Connecting buses and regional rail are synchronized to arrive and leave the HSR stations when the trains arrive and depart, leaving sufficient time for transfers, and where appropriate, baggage transfers.
Ticketing and reservations between modes is automatic and seamless with transfers and fares pre-arranged so customers need not figure out how to get from destination A to B, but this is done automatically for them at their option.
Coordinated and joint marketing includes all mode options and operators.
Fare cards include such options as expressway fares, rental car fares and all connecting transit modes, a SunPass for Florida residents, businesses and tourists.
Ticketing and reservations are accomplished through 800 numbers, online and via applications that can be downloaded to iPhones and PDAs.
The goal of such a seamless system is to make it easy for HSR users to get from one destination to another without having to learn each component part.

 

[mousermerf]

Pertinent trip-planning tidbits culled from the FAQ's:

How fast will the train travel, and what is the train schedule?

Another reason Florida was selected for a large grant is that it offers the most affordable implementation of a new HSR Express system (speed over 150 mph) in the United States. The maximum speed in Tampa-Orlando corridor is estimated at 168 mph, and up to 200 mph when the system is expanded to Miami. The trip time to Tampa will be just under an hour with stops and approximately 48-50 minutes non-stop. The service will be approximately hourly between the cities and more frequently (15-30 minutes) between Orlando airport and the area attractions.

Will there be long lines to board the trains?

Station stops will likely be less than two minutes, and have doors at each train car– no queuing is required as there is with airplanes.

How much will it cost to ride HSR system from Tampa to Orlando?

The one-way fares for the system will be in the $30 range for Tampa to Orlando and $15 for Orlando to the attraction areas ($2010).

How many people are expected to ride Florida’s HSR system?

More than 5,400 riders per day are anticipated in the initial service between Tampa and Orlando. The ridership numbers provided above do not include any captive Disney riders who are currently being transported by Disney buses between the airport and the hotels. An agreement could be negotiated with Disney that could result in millions additional riders on the HSR system.

(( Merf note: The $15 mentioned above is the same price Disney pays per-person for Magical Express bus service. It's almost entirely guaranteed they'll switch to HSR from Magical Express. ))

 

[Uncleromulus]

'"Seamless", "Automatic", "Synchronized" "No lines" 'No waiting"----sounds almost too good to be true.

Great if you live in Florida I suppose,but I'll never ride it--or probably even see it.

How may years is the project expected to take??
With the usual cost over-runs of course---

 

[Cricket2]

I'm sure I'm missing something but if I have 6-8 bags, do I handle them or does someone else? How would they do that in the quoted 2 minute stop? Do I then drag them to the next transportation leg or not?

Where is the WDW station planned for exactly (assuming it's known)?

The MCO station is in the yet-to be constructed south terminal... is that the third wing to the existing terminal or a seperate building?

Would we have to go to the main terminal to get luggage and then travel to another terminal to get to the train (all assuming ME isn't used)?

 

[phorsenuf]

How much will it cost to ride HSR system from Tampa to Orlando?

The one-way fares for the system will be in the $30 range for Tampa to Orlando and $15 for Orlando to the attraction areas ($2010).

That's expensive! And the travel time is almost the same as the drive time.

 

[doconeill]

2 minute stops? Really? They're dreaming. You can do that on a rapid transit system, but on what is in essense a commuter/intercity system? Especially one catering to tourists? Not a chance.

I supposed they have to say such fantasies in order to get the buy in...

 

[yitbos96bb]

That's expensive! And the travel time is almost the same as the drive time.

Not in traffic...

But I agree that is a bit pricier than I was assuming.

 

[wdwpins]

Two minutes to board or disembark is entirely possible--I've done it on the TGV in France. Train personnel are there to assist you, and once the exchange of passengers has been made, the conductor is given the "go ahead," the doors seal shut, and the train is off to accelerate back up to 187 mph (or now 200 mph for the TGV-Est line) in just a few minutes.

If you think Florida (and the rest of the US can't benefit from HSR), check out this excellent youtube video. France has had this since 1981 (and Japan has had theirs since 1964). France is socialist, by the way, and about the size of our state of Texas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2l7fNx4YHY

 

[lockedoutlogic]

If it moves at 168 mph....then it should take approximately 20 minutes to go between Tampa and Orlando....so this isn't that impressive of a schedule they're proprosing.

I like that we are finally getting a rail system that makes sense and the rest of the world has used for decades....but this is really just an expensive model train setup in Florida

They should just do what is needed and run an ultrafast system up the Northeast corridor, from seattle to San Diego, and then link it to Chicago and other points over time. But we like our smog machines too much, and won't walk anywhere...so the logical thing will never happen.

But hey...i'll take whatever...it's embarassing that the country that invented almost everything over the last 100 years can't catch up in areas like this...all because rich old men want to die richer.

 

[mousermerf]

Well, it's happening - it has enough financial backing a momentum at this point that it's going to occur.

As for luggage - it'll be just like magical express is now. You luggage is loaded into big metal wire bins that are put onto a truck and sent to your resort - however with HSR they could also put them in a special compartment on the train, and then truck them from the Disney station since HSR is directly at the airport.

As for costing too much - the prices listed are tourist prices. Commuters and student and seniors will all get discounts like every other daily-use rail system in the world. And again, Disney already pays that much each time it has Mears run the magical express shuttles.

 

[mousermerf]

Proposed travel times (including stops at all stations between destinations) on the HSR:

Mind you, this is estimated based on 2004 technology and infrastructure and with the stops inbetween. The "Express" route Tampa to MCO is currently expected to be only 48-50mins, possibly less as they finalize the track and vehicles. They also intend to run "Express" WDW (DSN in the chart) service.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Two minutes to board or disembark is entirely possible

Never. Think of all the stroller folding, and possible ECV movement.

MG

 

[mousermerf]

People do it every day at Disneyland Paris as the trains arrive and depart.

 

[mousermerf]

Interesting tidbit, Disney's "letter of support" which was sent as a 'surprise' of sorts at the last minute before the application was formally submitted, hence why the original ridership estimates don't includes Disney's tourist population - there was no time to correct them before the formal submission deadline.

This PDF of all the support letters combined, on pages 21 and 22:

http://www.dot.state.fl.us/planning/economicstimulus/hsr/TK2-9.pdf

Note the casual "we support the rail" on page 1, followed by "these are our demands, or else" on page 2.

 

[mousermerf]

Few more notes based on the info I was digging through and comments in this thread..

The plan (as stated in the formal proposal) is to have 5 trains, each with 250 passengers, and 2 classes of service.

As for never seeing it... if you visit WDW in 2015 and beyond it will be obvious, as much as the TTC is obvious to anyone going to the Magic Kingdom. The area dedicated to the station is where WDW's land meets interstate 4, near Pop Century and now -directly across the street from- The Art of Animation resort Disney is building as we speak.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

People do it every day at Disneyland Paris as the trains arrive and depart.

probably because

A. The entire population uses some form of mass transit from time to time
B. The just go with the flow and do it
C. They don't waste time complaining

I can't see any of those things being the case on the disney trains

 

[Uncleromulus]

I agree-this thing simply cannot run as smoothly as advertised.

mousermerf: If I DO see it--and if it's actulally in operation by 2015--it will be from a distance

 

[mousermerf]

People ride the WDW monorails which have a similar capacity and get in/out without much difficulty - the exception being the need for wheelchair ramps and the new system will be installed with full ADA compliance.

And though similar in capacity, the HSR trains will be larger and have more seating/personal space.

In both Paris and London I witnessed hundreds of Americans getting on/off trains at both CDG and LGW airports and going to their destinations in the cities. Only a select few who couldn't figure it out had to wait 15 mins for the next train.

 

[mousermerf]

Note: If they design WDW station as a flow-through station akin to the MK station there wont be many delays in load/unload. Considering they want 4 parallel tracks at each station, I suspect the setup would have a central pier used to unload both east and west bound trains - akin to MK's monorail station. Load would be done from the other side of the trains. That works for efficiency at MK, and is used at stations all over the world that need quick change of riders - have the folks getting on load from one side while folks getting off unload out the other.

Express trains at MK station are in the station less then 2 minutes in most circumstances. I use the monorail as an example simply because it has similar capacity.