Designing an Equitable Allocation System

[TCPluto]

Agreed. But I would respectfully make two points:

1. Clearly you are in favor of such a change. But through all of the debate, a lot of folks have pointed out many potential problems--all of which you have been willing to overlook. Not all of us are as willing to dismiss these issues as being completely irrelevant.

2. You seem to be implying that Disney / DVC / DVD has NEVER even given a second thought to these types of changes. While I have no evidence to support my position, I very much believe that Disney has researched such changes to its reservation system. My guess is that one of two things happened:

a) They determined that the negative impact to guests would outweigh the positive, or
b) They could quietly be implementing such a system.

Disney's goal has always been to provide the highest-quality service to guests, often via technological innovation. Taking into account total guest satisfaction and the services that they can consistently commit to providing, if Disney resorts are functionally capable of granting room guarantees at the time of the booking, they absolutely will do so.

And if they don't, I believe it has more to do with the projected negative impact on guests rather than simple apathy.

Well said.

While not possible to make everyone happy every time/all the time, I think they have settled in to a system that offers the most satisfaction for the highest number of guests.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

A typical response in that I know that requests are not guaranteed. I don't feel so self absorbed that I want to try and change a system that works for about 98% of the reservations, just because it might not work for me every single time.

A typical response in that I am not in the business of WDW resort hotel management with all of the unique challenges that this would entail. Being an arm chair quarterback is a long way from playing the game. That's what is going on here, telling the professional resort managers how they should do their job. Seems a bit arrogant.

so why have a forum to discuss any issues. none of us are experts in this, we are simply the users.

what is the fear in discussing change, how do you not know a new system could not work for the same 98% and whereby all 98% know exactly what to expect before they arrive?

why is this sooo unthinkable as to even discuss?

 

[Disney Fanatic]

Disney Fanatic;

In your earlier post you said that Fairfield would guarantee your exact room request, now your saying they can't guarantee it.
Sounds like they're no different than DVC.
I happen to always book at 11 month or at least I have so far, and so far my system has worked pretty well.

If I understand their system correctly, if you book at the 11 month window and the room is available, you get that room number. If that room is not available, you can pick the exact room number you want.

What the salesman was saying was that he cannot guarantee that someone wanting the exact room is calling at the magic hour at the 11th month to make the exact same reservation. The chances are preety slim but you never know.......therefore he cannot guarantee it.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[TCPluto]

Whats the purpose of an endeavor that doesn't have the potential for a greater reward? Make a slightly different 98% happy? I say save the money, time and energy and do something else with it..

 

[Disney Fanatic]

A typical response in that I know that requests are not guaranteed. I don't feel so self absorbed that I want to try and change a system that works for about 98% of the reservations, just because it might not work for me every single time.

A typical response in that I am not in the business of WDW resort hotel management with all of the unique challenges that this would entail. Being an arm chair quarterback is a long way from playing the game. That's what is going on here, telling the professional resort managers how they should do their job. Seems a bit arrogant.

I only suggested something that I thought was a good idea at another company as something that may work at Disney.

I did not say that it was a perfect answer, just a suggestion.

I just took a 2nd look to see that this was indeed a Forum I was signed into to discuss ideas and not be criticized for making suggestions.

I don't think Disney would have ever become the company they are today if they didn't listen to new ideas!!

 

[tjkraz]

I am not doubting you are right but just wondering why if we live in Canada that our Canadian Tour Operators that publish annual brochures show DVC properties there to book? I wonder where they get their allottment from?

Rooms are certainly available to book by cash-paying customers (subject to availability, of course), but my point was that not all of the dollars go into Disney's pockets.

Here are two scenarios:

1. DVC owner at the Boardwalk uses 200 points to book a vacation via the Concierge Collection. DVC is a third-party in this transaction. 200 DVC points hold zero value for the Conceirge Collection hotel. What really happens is DVC makes some cash payment to the Concierge Collection hotel to secure you reservation, and they take your 200 points as compensation. DVC will then turn those 200 points into vacant rooms at the Boardwalk Villas (they effectively choose the dates and room size at their whim). Those BWV rooms are then made available to the public via CRO, and any monies received from cash customers for the room go do Disney.

Occasionally you'll see a member post a complaint that goes something like this: "DVC says they don't have a room at XXX resort for XXX dates, but I can see one available at www.disneyworld.com." The previous paragraph explains why. When members trade out of DVC, their points are used to set-aside rooms for cash guests. DVC members no longer have access to that inventory of rooms.

2. At 60 days prior to check-in, ALL unbooked rooms at DVC resorts are made available to the general public. Rooms booked at this point fall under the "breakage" category. Monies collected from the cash guests go back into the resort budget, and effectively reduce the member dues for the resort. Disney / DVC does not profit from rooms rented in this manner.

3. There's actually a third category, which is rooms reserved by DVC members at the 25% cash discount. I believe these are also included under "breakage" income (since the discount is based upon a projected vacancy at the resort), but someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Now back to our regularly-scheduled thread.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

Whats the purpose of an endeavor that doesn't have the potential for a greater reward? Make a slightly different 98% happy? I say save the money, time and energy and do something else with it..

you'd never know if the reward was potentailly greater because you never even gave it a chance.

Im glad history is not made up of people who just said "thats the way it is, it works, so lets not waste any money, time or energy trying to make it any better

 

[sjdisneywedding]

I only suggested something that I thought was a good idea at another company as something that may work at Disney.

I did not say that it was a perfect answer, just a suggestion.

I just took a 2nd look to see that this was indeed a Forum I was signed into to discuss ideas and not be criticized for making suggestions.

I don't think Disney would have ever become the company they are today if they didn't listen to new ideas!!

EXCELLENT POINTS throughout all your posts.

 

[TCPluto]

I think you would have few people willing to make changes to a system that seems to work so well for so many.

We're not talking about a 50, 60 or even 80 percent satisfaction rate. The poll conducted several months ago, among this small pool of DVC owners who visit this board, showed a satisfaction rate of about 98%.

How can anyone really hope to improve on that?

 

[TCPluto]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and seek support for them from others. Me too.

 

[tjkraz]

Im glad history is not made up of people who just said "thats the way it is, it works, so lets not waste any money, time or energy trying to make it any better

Yeah, worked out well for General Custer, eh?

Yes, risk-takers sometimes do get rewarded. Other times they get buried.

Nevertheless, through this entire debate (and many previous), the one thing that keeps resonating is this elusive idea of what really is "better."

Some think "better" means guaranteeing S/NS and H/NH.

Some think "better" means guaranteeing views, buildings, and resort location.

Some think "better" means guaranteeing specific room numbers.

Some think Room Ready is best.

Some think pre-assignement is best.

Some think assignments should be based upon reservation date.

Some think assignments should be based upon Home resort ownership.

Some want the flexibility to pick their individual room when they arrive at the resort.

Some don't know what the heck to think.

Some are too afraid to even post here.

And some troublesome folks even suggest that the current system may be the best, most versatile of all.

For Disney it's a lose-lose proposition. Some hate the current system. And if they implemented changes, many would hate the new system. In the end, I suspect their best defense is that printed piece of paper we all signed that says nothing is guaranteed. At least Disney / DVC / DVD can use the "I toldja so" defense.

Does that mean the current system is the best that could exist? No. But if members can't even universally agree on a system that is better, I can't imagine DVC choosing to walk that plank.

 

[TCPluto]

Quite well put TJ. Careful though, you'll not make friends professing such heiracy.

 

[Beca]

I think the problem with the current system is that DVC professes to have changed to "meet the requests of members" who were complaining that getting into rooms after 4:00 was a bit of a pain. Well, the problem now is...no one seems to be getting into rooms any earlier unless it is because a room was empty the night before. I became a DVC member right as the policy was being changed, and I have NEVER gotten into a room before about 4:30...so, I am in the camp that is looking for that "benefit".

The other problem with the implementation of "room ready" is that DVC says they changed their policy because of the requests of owners. Yet, no one seems to remember being asked their opinions on this matter. If DVC changed this policy to "make things easier"...then, they need to say just that. But, saying they are "responding to member feedback" implies that they WANT and are actively SEEKING the advice of members. Thus, discussions like this on the disboards. I don't think anyone means to imply that they are "smarter" than trained professionals at DVC. But, when a company sets themselves up as "listening and responding to membership", they are, in essence soliciting what might be a lot of unwanted advice.

I agree pretty much wholeheartedly with Dean. I don't see how hard it would be for the room-assigner to separate all arriving ressies for each day into "groups" and assign them in an order of priority. Medical NS, Non-HA for safety reasons first...then go by booking date. I am a fan of Crisi's plan for assigning 11-7 month window ressies first, then owners within a 3-7 month window, then non-owners during the 3-7 month window, then all members, then CRO. But, that is just what would benefit me the most....I will probably always choose to stay at my home resort if it is open.

I guess my point is this....instead of DVC "saying" they are listening and responding to the requests of the membership....why don't they really listen, and give feedback as to why some things are possible/not possible. Maybe this is discussed at the condo meetings, I don't know...I haven't been to WDW while they were going on...but, I will be there this year and plan to go. I hope this is an issue I get the chance to address. I would love to have some answers....even if it shows how truly "stupid" I am.



Beca

 

[Tony P. IL.]

Go get em Beca

 

[dianeschlicht]

Crisi, thanks for starting such an interesting thread! Sorry I was not around yesterday to participate, but lots of great points were brought up. I agree with Crisi's list, but I think expecting DVC to go to a program like that is unrealistic. I suspect Disney will do what is easiest for them, and if the get fewer disatisfied guests with this current system, they will leave it in place. The squeeky wheel gets the grease, in this case.

 

[bicker]

Only cruise ships and boutique hotels allow folks to book specific rooms.

Sorry but this is completely 100% FALSE! I travel for a living, sometimes as many as a couple hundred nights a year and almost EVERY hotel I have ever stayed has a guarenteed NS request.

Please try reading what you're replying to before replying. I never said anything about requests. I said "specific rooms."

 

[bicker]

It can be done, but room vacancies will increase.

Exactly.

The real question is what pct. increase will there be in room vacancies? Is DVC/Disney willing to accept rooms not being filled on certain days?

It's not a question: The timeshare is designed to withstand a very specific level of vacancy. There is no way to change that level of vacancy without violating the master deed.

 

[bicker]

so why have a forum to discuss any issues.

The purpose of this forum is to, "share information and tips," not "discuss issues." While discussing issues is allowed, of course, it isn't the purpose of the forum.

none of us are experts in this, we are simply the users.

Obstensibly, especially in light of the that bit about sharing information and tips, I consider the folks who have been DVC members significantly longer than I have to be "experts," and greatly rely on and respect their input in this forum. Some of these folks have raised what I consider to be some rather significant counter-points -- points I wouldn't dismiss so quickly.

 

[bicker]

Yet, no one seems to remember being asked their opinions on this matter.

Huh? No one else remembers getting survey cards in the mail after their visits? We've been surveyed at least three times since joining DVC. Why are we special?

 

[dianeschlicht]

LOL, Bicker, do you always talk to yourself?
Just teasing. I agree with all of your posts above. Folks forget that timeshares are meant to have nearly 100% coverage at any one time. In a points system, it would not work if there was only 100% coverage expected only at specific times.