Democrats and Castro Sympathizers

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Abracadabra
This is a rather odd seque and a rather illogical conclusion to draw. A more reasonable comparison would be someone who disagreed with former Pres. Clinton's politics and policies, but managed to maintain a sense of respect out of deference for the office of the President.

My point is that one can have respect for, maybe even admiration of, a world leader without necessarily supporting/endorsing that individual's policies or politics. I've had engaging, enlightening dinners & conversations with people with whom I disagree, but still found a sense of respect and even admiration for them. It's possible to do if you are able to manage an open mind.

Actually, I think Dawn got it right.

 

[RitaZ.]

My point is that one can have respect for, maybe even admiration of, a world leader without necessarily supporting/endorsing that individual's policies or politics.

Really? Does that apply to all dictators? Too bad that many here didn't accept and understand Arnold Schwarzenegger's comments about "admiring" Hitler.

 

[Abracadabra]

Originally posted by DawnCt1
It absolutely isn't. Castro has been responsible for the oppression, imprisonment and murder of an innumerable number of those "who disagree" with him since he came to power. I wonder if the same people would sit down and have a drink with Uday and Qusay and come to the conclusion that they just "disagree" on women's rights?

Interesting debate tactic... create an absurd diversion in some futile attempt to prove your point, then when it is shot down, attempt debate by fiat (I speak or in this case write therefore it is) and toss out a new diversion.

As I said, it is possible for some people to separate politics/policy from the individual. That's obviously not possible for you and more's the pity for it.

I suppose then that we will have to toss aside such Republican "heroes" as Nixon and Reagan for their forays with Communist leaders (dinners, meetings, telephone calls, etc.). I find it interesting that Reagan developed a respect for Gorbachev during his presidency. It didn't seem to stifle Reagan's ability to tell Gorby to "tear down this wall." Somehow he was able to respect the individual without being accused of being a communist sympathizer.

But I suppose this matters only because Reagan was a Republican and the individuals in the OP are associated/affiliated with the Democratic Party. How naive of me to think that hypocrisy was limited only to the Dems!

 

[Abracadabra]

Originally posted by RitaZ.
Really? Does that apply to all dictators? Too bad that many here didn't accept and understand Arnold Schwarzenegger's comments about "admiring" Hitler.

Who an individual chooses to admire and for what reasons they make that choice are ultimately personal ones and certainly not subject to your or my approval. I don't know you from Eve (or Adam for that matter) and I certainly would not attempt to impose my system of choosing whom to admire upon you. It's my hope that we'd be able to exercise the same discretion toward others, regardless of their status (celebrity or not).

 

[Abracadabra]

BTW, those who are expressing deep concern about alleged Castro "sympathizers" should probably avoid this thread.

 

[peachgirl]

Originally posted by Abracadabra
BTW, those who are expressing deep concern about alleged Castro "sympathizers" should probably avoid this thread.

Laugh if you will, but I think there's some substance to BedKnobbery2's theory. I think the media should get on this and do a full investigation.

 

[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by Abracadabra
Interesting debate tactic... create an absurd diversion in some futile attempt to prove your point, then when it is shot down, attempt debate by fiat (I speak or in this case write therefore it is) and toss out a new diversion.

As I said, it is possible for some people to separate politics/policy from the individual. That's obviously not possible for you and more's the pity for it.

I suppose then that we will have to toss aside such Republican "heroes" as Nixon and Reagan for their forays with Communist leaders (dinners, meetings, telephone calls, etc.). I find it interesting that Reagan developed a respect for Gorbachev during his presidency. It didn't seem to stifle Reagan's ability to tell Gorby to "tear down this wall." Somehow he was able to respect the individual without being accused of being a communist sympathizer.

But I suppose this matters only because Reagan was a Republican and the individuals in the OP are associated/affiliated with the Democratic Party. How naive of me to think that hypocrisy was limited only to the Dems!

Since when are celebrities in charge of foreign policy and doing business on behalf of the United States? How can you possibly compare President Reagan meeting cordially with Gorby in order to achieve particular goals to Danny Glover fawning over Castro?
I certainly have friends of the liberal persuasion and we can certainly find common ground beyond politics, however, if one of my friends was an oppressive, murderous dictator, we wouldn't be friends. I judge my friends by how they behave towards me and towards others and they wouldn't make muster.

 

[susy]

Pity me, then, if you must. I see nothing admirable in someone who is holding my entire family hostage. Remember that I don't know these people. I have never seen or spoken to them. Yet, they are my immediate family.

Policy is one thing, holding someone against their will (yes, they all want to get out) is another. I think they call it kidnapping.

 

[Abracadabra]

Originally posted by DawnCt1
Since when are celebrities in charge of foreign policy and doing business on behalf of the United States? How can you possibly compare President Reagan meeting cordially with Gorby in order to achieve particular goals to Danny Glover fawning over Castro?
I certainly have friends of the liberal persuasion and we can certainly find common ground beyond politics, however, if one of my friends was an oppressive, murderous dictator, we wouldn't be friends. I judge my friends by how they behave towards me and towards others and they wouldn't make muster.

Fawning? Well, maybe so, but I continue to see a huge chasm to bridge from the statements made by a few celebrities to the conclusion that they are "Castro sympathizers." So far, no one has provided any substative evidence, apart from Mr. Chase -- -- that any of these individuals supports or endorses the politics/policies of the Castro regime.

Also from what I read, I didn't get the impression these celebrities were referring to friendships either. Respect and/or admiration does not equate to friendship. I respect most politicans and the office they hold, but would not go so far as to call them my friends. And I doubt that any of these people mentioned have spent that much time with Castro to form a lasting relationship.

 

[Abracadabra]

Originally posted by susy
Pity me, then, if you must. I see nothing admirable in someone who is holding my entire family hostage. Remember that I don't know these people. I have never seen or spoken to them. Yet, they are my immediate family.

Policy is one thing, holding someone against their will (yes, they all want to get out) is another. I think they call it kidnapping.

I would respect your opinion of Castro just as I respect anyone else's. It's not my place to assess the relative value of your opinion or anyone elses for that matter. However, I am impressed to some degree at the opinions formed by those who have actually met the man and spent time getting to know him as an individual. Being able to put aside one's personal ideologies, politics, etc. for a while and talk with someone else with whom you may disagree can be an enlightening experience. It doesn't necessarily follow that doing so means you automatically endorse what that person says, believes or does.

 

[Saffron]

WillyJ said:

... As for the Kerry picture; he was over there trying to find ways to get our POW's released. Vietnam is a communist country still, and just because they used his image for propaganda purposes doesn't make what they say the truth.

If you want to believe a communist regime over an American who risked his life for his country and then stood up for what he believed when he returned home, that's you're right. . but I choose to believe the American soldier.

I agree whole heartedly with you, Will!

DawnCt1 made an excellent point, Kendra, and it's an important one, when she said:

How can you possibly compare President Reagan meeting cordially with Gorby in order to achieve particular goals to Danny Glover fawning over Castro?

When someone fawns over a Dictator, that's one thing, but when someone is meeting cordially with a Dictator to achieve particular goals, that's another. Kerry or Reagan ... same circumstances, just different people in the pictures.

 

[susy]

We (Castro and I) can sit down and talk-as soon as he releases his hostages.

 

[Abracadabra]

Originally posted by susy
We (Castro and I) can sit down and talk-as soon as he releases his hostages.

I never suggested you should. My point is that the process of doing so does not, as stated/implied by some posters, mean the individuals endorse or support the politics or policies of the other.

 

[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by Abracadabra
Also from what I read, I didn't get the impression these celebrities were referring to friendships either. Respect and/or admiration does not equate to friendship. I respect most politicans and the office they hold, but would not go so far as to call them my friends. And I doubt that any of these people mentioned have spent that much time with Castro to form a lasting relationship.

Respect and admiration for a murderous dictator makes absolutely no sense to me. I save my respect and admiration for people I respect and admire. Again, I think its the moral relativism of the left that keeps tripping you up.

 

[Abracadabra]

Originally posted by DawnCt1
Respect and admiration for a murderous dictator makes absolutely no sense to me. I save my respect and admiration for people I respect and admire. Again, I think its the moral relativism of the left that keeps tripping you up.

People choose to respect and admire individuals for a variety of reasons. I don't understand Arnold's admiration of Hitler, but I also don't construe that he is a Hitler sympathizer.

The people you choose to respect and admire is your own business and I don't believe anyone has any right to question your motivations, values or morals/morality if/when you choose to disclose who these individuals are.

I would hope that you and others would extend the same courtesy to others. However, I can see from this post that this could be a difficult task for you.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Abracadabra

The people you choose to respect and admire is your own business and I don't believe anyone has any right to question your motivations, values or morals/morality if/when you choose to disclose who these individuals are.

Are there any dictators, despots, criminals, murderers, child abusers, wife beaters or any other people considered the dregs of society on your list of people you admire and respect?

I'm sure you won't answer because it's "your own business". And it is. But when you put it out there for the world to see (just as in the right to free speech), people shouldn't be upset when others express their right to disagree.

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why some people don't have a problem with the type of admiration these celebs have for Castro (or any other person like him).

IMO, the MAIN reason they do it is because he sits down there on his little island flippin' the US the bird for who we are.

 

[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by Abracadabra
The people you choose to respect and admire is your own business and I don't believe anyone has any right to question your motivations, values or morals/morality if/when you choose to disclose who these individuals are.

I

Then please tell me what YOU find admirable and respectful of Castro since you seem adament about justifying the admiration of him from the Hollywood left. I think that it is perfectly reasonable to judge individuals by their behavior and by the behavior of those that they admire. If I were to admire a murderous dictator and be public about that, I would expect that others would question my values, morals and morality. Of course values, morals and morality seem like oxymorons in that context, don't they?

 

[susy]

It's lucky for those of you who keep harping on the fact that everyone has the "right" to admire whomever they want, that you live in the good ole US!


As for admiring people who kidnap and murder...
How many of you tell your kids to "respect and admire" the school bully? I tell mine to keep away. Believe it or not, there is right and there is wrong-not everything is "grey" for the convenience of those who want to do whatever they want and then ease their conscience...

 

[Abracadabra]

Originally posted by Elwood Blues
Are there any dictators, despots, criminals, murderers, child abusers, wife beaters or any other people considered the dregs of society on your list of people you admire and respect?

I'm sure you won't answer because it's "your own business". And it is. But when you put it out there for the world to see (just as in the right to free speech), people shouldn't be upset when others express their right to disagree.

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why some people don't have a problem with the type of admiration these celebs have for Castro (or any other person like him).

IMO, the MAIN reason they do it is because he sits down there on his little island flippin' the US the bird for who we are.

I have never said that anyone does not have the right to disagree with these celebrities. That's a fundamental right everyone has.

What I have a problem with is when unsubstantiated charges are made against people, such as labeling them as Castro sympathizers, or questioning someones morals/morality because of their choice of whom to respect or admire.

I am not bothered by this because it doesn't matter to me that some celebrities choose to respect/admire Castro. And you are correct on one point: the people I choose to respect/admire is a personal one for me. If I choose to reveal that information, it won't be because of a demand from some anonymous person on an Internet bulletin board.

 

[Abracadabra]

Originally posted by DawnCt1
Then please tell me what YOU find admirable and respectful of Castro since you seem adament about justifying the admiration of him from the Hollywood left. I think that it is perfectly reasonable to judge individuals by their behavior and by the behavior of those that they admire. If I were to admire a murderous dictator and be public about that, I would expect that others would question my values, morals and morality. Of course values, morals and morality seem like oxymorons in that context, don't they?

Please try to read my points a bit more carefully. I've made no attempt to justify anyone's choice of who they respect/admire. I have said this is a personal choice and not subject to yours or anyone else's approval.

If you don't like it, so be it. You have every right to hold your own opinions, as I have to hold mine.

I agree that it is reasonable to judge individuals by their behavior. I disagree that it is reasonable to judge others by their choice of whom they respect/admire. As I've repeatedly stated, respect/admiration does not equate to endorsement or support of the individual's actions or beliefs.