Demand based ticket pricing

[StarWarsJez]

It'll be interesting to see how Disney implements this new pricing strategy with UK/EU guests - who typically buy 'length of stay' passes of either 2 or 3 weeks (I'm ignoring one week as they're the same type as two weeks).

Whatever happens I'm sure the prices will go up with the current price equivalent to a new 'low season' price, withs medium and high season prices up from that. At the moment, tickets are only 'locked' into the year you're going, whereas presumably going forward customers will need to specify the specific date (or at least month). Not sure whet will happen if trips bridge two pricing periods - although knowing Disney I'm sure they'll just charge the upper rate!

Either way, Disney seems to be in the enviable position where they've realised that despite agressive price increases and a lack of new attractions (sure by 2020 it'll be wonderful) - attendance continues to grow. I hope the bubble bursts!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The new WDW business model is like a cruise line that mated with a condo flipping scheme.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

I don't post often, but read along enough...so I will bite.
I am not sure I understand your perspective. I live in ski country - so I am more like the Disney local, who would typically buy a season pass, and go multiple times through out the year. Sometimes I would make day trips, and sometimes stay up there (as the traffic is beyond horrible driving back). At pretty much every ski resort a single day pass is over $100, and while I may be able to get discounts, the only way to make it feasible is to buy an annual pass. Like Disney, the annual ski pass has multiple options/levels, each with its own pricing that goes with it. But no matter which way you go, skiing is cheaper on the less crowded days (ie when people should be at work and school - and note, due to having kids to deal with and a job, I no longer ski).
We also have our destination skiiers - those that come here for various locations around the country/world, who do not have the flexibility to come just when the prices are cheaper. And the most popular times, Christmas, Thanksgiving, and long weekends are the most expensive to ski, both for lodging and lift tickets (and I wouldn't be surprised if the restaurants and bars charged more too, although I haven't tried to track this). I can relate to those destination skiiers, as that is me coming to Disney - I find a time that will work for my family to get away for a week, and I book a trip, with cost not being my primary concern (cost is a concern, but I am experienced enough to not be shocked at the total cost). If I have the option between multiple week, I am more likely to book my vacation based on the projected crowd calendars and wait times vs what the ticket price is for that week.

Don't get me wrong, neither option is an "affordable" family vacation - and that is why we have chosen Disney for our annual vacation over skiing.

Have often thought about this comparison. A lot of similarity.

Resorts that are ski in/out are more expensive as well, but the value is there for some more-similar to some DVC and Deluxe Resorts at WDW.

 

[adam.adbe]

It'll be interesting to see how Disney implements this new pricing strategy with UK/EU guests - who typically buy 'length of stay' passes of either 2 or 3 weeks (I'm ignoring one week as they're the same type as two weeks).

The prices will jump for sure, but Disney know that UK/EU one-week-plus visitors are a special class. Firstly they sank way more into the vacation than the average American household, so they're more primed to spend (might as well enjoy it), and Disney will use dining plan and room rate deals to ensure they are on Disney property for as much time as possible, so that spend goes through Disney cash registers. My guess is that Disney will try to drive UK/EU visitors into the deluxe hotels, as they're more likely then to spend big in the attached restaurants. Since those hotels aren't packing in the US crowds, there's probably room to do this.

Also, they'll just play some games with vacation times. European and UK school holidays do not line up all that closely with the bulk of US school breaks, so they can offer weird deals for not-quite-peak weeks.

 

[Josh Hendy]

The ski resort comparison only goes so far. Most ski hills are limited by the extent of the single mountain they're built on, and there are often conservation and planning restrictions even if there is more space on the mountain.

But of course Disney WANTS to make money as if it's a ski resort, or to use another analogy, a cruise line. Huh. Turns out that you can manufacture scarcity!

Or can you?

When there's no physical or legal capacity problem then scarcity is strictly in the mind of the customers.

 

[bpadair32]

I think the effect of this would be that every day is 30+mn wait for just about anything. Instead of crazy busy days and less busy (what used to be slow) days, all days would have large crowds. People would opt to go on the cheaper days, thus spreading out the crowds more evenly throughout the week/month, making every day busy. Not fun. We want to be able to visit the parks on lower crowd days without waiting 20mn or more for just about everything.

If I am going to a theme park/amusement park be it Disney or not, I expect to wait in lines. Its the nature of where you are going. Lines are part of it. Are they the fun part? No. But to expect to be able to go to any theme park without having to deal with lines is a little bit unreasonable IMO. Im sure there are times when it happens, but I think those should be considered a bonus and not an expected part of the trip.

 

[rteetz]

If I am going to a theme park/amusement park be it Disney or not, I expect to wait in lines. Its the nature of where you are going. Lines are part of it. Are they the fun part? No. But to expect to be able to go to any theme park without having to deal with lines is a little bit unreasonable IMO. Im sure there are times when it happens, but I think those should be considered a bonus and not an expected part of the trip.

Patience is key in life

 

[Eoghann]

If I am going to a theme park/amusement park be it Disney or not, I expect to wait in lines. Its the nature of where you are going. Lines are part of it. Are they the fun part? No. But to expect to be able to go to any theme park without having to deal with lines is a little bit unreasonable IMO. Im sure there are times when it happens, but I think those should be considered a bonus and not an expected part of the trip.

Okay... but the person you responded to didn't say they expected no wait lines. They just said they think this approach will increase the wait lines at times of year when they used to be shorter. And while it may well be an unfortunate part of the experience, that doesn't mean everyone should just shrug their shoulders if the waits get progressively longer and longer.

On my last trip in December I only stood in one line that was longer than 30 minutes most were in the region of 15 minutes. Partly that was the timing of the trip, partly planning on my part and also partly that I just walked away from rides that had long lines. If I knew that everything I wanted to do was going to have 30 minute plus waits... it wouldn't be worth the money to go in the first place.

 

[bpadair32]

Okay... but the person you responded to didn't say they expected no wait lines. They just said they think this approach will increase the wait lines at times of year when they used to be shorter. And while it may well be an unfortunate part of the experience, that doesn't mean everyone should just shrug their shoulders if the waits get progressively longer and longer.

On my last trip in December I only stood in one line that was longer than 30 minutes most were in the region of 15 minutes. Partly that was the timing of the trip, partly planning on my part and also partly that I just walked away from rides that had long lines. If I knew that everything I wanted to do was going to have 30 minute plus waits... it wouldn't be worth the money to go in the first place.

They stated they didn't want to wait more than 20mins for anything. Thats a quote. Waiting in line is part of going to an amusement park/theme park. If you can get lucky and not have to wait, its awesome. If you do have to wait, that should be the expectation.

 

[cleverclovers]

Tiered pricing? I saw it on the TV news (sorry, don't remember which network) that is was already a done deal. Announced the same day as the price increases. So now will they change prices anytime they want with no warning AND charge the highest rate for Park Hoppers? Just wondering.

 

[wareagle57]

If I am going to a theme park/amusement park be it Disney or not, I expect to wait in lines. Its the nature of where you are going. Lines are part of it. Are they the fun part? No. But to expect to be able to go to any theme park without having to deal with lines is a little bit unreasonable IMO. Im sure there are times when it happens, but I think those should be considered a bonus and not an expected part of the trip.

I agree to an extent. But waiting an hour in line for almost every ride other than right at rope drop and at the end of the day IS unreasonable I think. I'm not talking about Disney, I think they do a pretty good job (for the most part) of having plenty to do and not having to wait in lines if you know what you are doing. But Six Flags is awful about this. I went to a Season Passholder even this past weekend, expecting to ride my favorite rides as much as I wanted due to low crowds. The crowds were low alright, but they only had one train running on almost all of their coasters, including what is by far their most popular coaster. They let people in early but held them, so even at RD the line for that one was backed up and we couldn't ride it again until the end of the night. The two coasters, in the rarely visited back of the park for some reason were the only coasters with 2 trains running. The lines there were fine. I think it's a dick move to have an AP event and then decrease the capacity to where it is no better than going any other day. It's also ridiculous the way their do their FP system, and the fact that they offer no single rider lines for coasters that constantly send out cars with empty seats. I love big roller coasters that Disney does not offer, but every time I go to Six Flags or another amusement park, it always makes me appreciate Disney so much more.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

If I am going to a theme park/amusement park be it Disney or not, I expect to wait in lines. Its the nature of where you are going. Lines are part of it. Are they the fun part? No. But to expect to be able to go to any theme park without having to deal with lines is a little bit unreasonable IMO. Im sure there are times when it happens, but I think those should be considered a bonus and not an expected part of the trip.

Disney has managed to effectively navigate this for a long time...long after many parks fell prey to unmanageable crowds.

They did it by adding new attractions, parks, entertainment venues and hotels that offered other diversions for a variety of tastes.

There were always long lines on busy days...I remember 2 hour waits for pirates...but the one thing you can't take away from evil Mikey is that he gave the place room to grow...big picture...

They controlled the crowd by giving choice in many ways...intentional or not.

Fake tan boy has squandered that lead...loaded the bases and gave up a jack in the 8th.

I expect lines at kings island, cedar point, geauga lake, etc...Disney used to make handling that part of their service.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Tiered pricing? I saw it on the TV news (sorry, don't remember which network) that is was already a done deal. Announced the same day as the price increases. So now will they change prices anytime they want with no warning AND charge the highest rate for Park Hoppers? Just wondering.

Uncertain but likely...

The one thing they'll have to do is set the dates a calendar year at a time...they could never keep up from an accounting perspective otherwise.

Others have suggested that it will be a "bill" system like a restaurant...but that kinda revenue is always COD with them.

As far as multidays/hoppers...good question...the easiest way to do it is charge you the highest rate of any single day...and every weekend day is guaranteed a silver.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I agree to an extent. But waiting an hour in line for almost every ride other than right at rope drop and at the end of the day IS unreasonable I think. I'm not talking about Disney, I think they do a pretty good job (for the most part) of having plenty to do and not having to wait in lines if you know what you are doing. But Six Flags is awful about this. I went to a Season Passholder even this past weekend, expecting to ride my favorite rides as much as I wanted due to low crowds. The crowds were low alright, but they only had one train running on almost all of their coasters, including what is by far their most popular coaster. They let people in early but held them, so even at RD the line for that one was backed up and we couldn't ride it again until the end of the night. The two coasters, in the rarely visited back of the park for some reason were the only coasters with 2 trains running. The lines there were fine. I think it's a dick move to have an AP event and then decrease the capacity to where it is no better than going any other day. It's also ridiculous the way their do their FP system, and the fact that they offer no single rider lines for coasters that constantly send out cars with empty seats. I love big roller coasters that Disney does not offer, but every time I go to Six Flags or another amusement park, it always makes me appreciate Disney so much more.

My advice: stay away from great adventure

 

[Eoghann]

They stated they didn't want to wait more than 20mins for anything. Thats a quote. Waiting in line is part of going to an amusement park/theme park. If you can get lucky and not have to wait, its awesome. If you do have to wait, that should be the expectation.

No, it absolutely shouldn't. You may choose to settle, don't demand everyone else do likewise.

 

[only hope]

If I am going to a theme park/amusement park be it Disney or not, I expect to wait in lines. Its the nature of where you are going. Lines are part of it. Are they the fun part? No. But to expect to be able to go to any theme park without having to deal with lines is a little bit unreasonable IMO. Im sure there are times when it happens, but I think those should be considered a bonus and not an expected part of the trip.

Some lines, yes. We're longtime passholders and remember the days when there was a true offseason. Days you could go during the week, not the weekend, and even at MK very few things had a wait above 20-25 mn at any point during the day. The only exceptions (at MK) were all three mountains and Peter Pan. Disney has succeeded at attracting more people, which is good for the bottom line but bad for satisfaction.

 

[usd2bmd]

We used to go at the end of August, right before kids in New York went back to school. It was less crowded with little to no waits for most rides. Then we took some time off and went on other vacations. This past August we went back. It was not the Disney we were used to. Crowds were heavier. It was the warmest summer i can remember and when you factor in having to plan so much of the trip so far in advance. It was just not what we had wanted.

Now there is the rumor that they want to price tickets so that slow seasons will be a thing of the past. The parks will be busy all the time and not just peak times. I just wonder when enough is enough.

I have just gotten the feeling in the last five years or so that Disney's target guest is no longer the American middle class family. It is now the family that has what seems to be an endless supply of disposable income. They have MNSSHP and MVMCP but having those wasn't enough, they had to add the dessert party to them so they could sell another ticket. They added the fireworks fairy cruise ( i don't know what it's called) to sell another ticket.

It's no longer about quality, it is all about quantity and as long as they can continue to pack them in; they will.

As for me and my family, I think without knowing it at the time, our last trip really was our last trip and that makes me sad.

 

[PirateSAM]

I'm very disappointed with all of this tiered pricing scheme talk.

Over the past four years, I've noticed the park has an ever-increasing number of guests...and this during the "off" season. My guess is there will no longer be a off season. If they want to tier price, it needs to be based on seasons. Peak season summer and holidays, fine, charge as much as you can to "control the crowds". But to have each day of the year marked for a potentially different pricing tier seems a bit extreme. I've seen the calendar for how this gold-, silver-, bronze-tiered system may work. The premise is that if your "stay" crosses two different tiers, you pay the higher tier price for the stay. That said, Disney is making sure that pretty much everyone pays at minimum the middle tier since weekends are almost always "silver" or "gold". There was maybe only two weeks in the calendar year where a family could stay for a week's vacation and pay the lowest price tier of "bronze". That's ridiculous!

How can a person purchase a 5-day ticket for a 7-day stay at a resort and NOT pay Silver or Gold for the entire stay. They don't know that I'm not planning on going to a park on Saturday and Sunday. They just assume you will, so they'll charge you more. But I guess you could argue that it goes back to planning, planning, planning on FP+ system to tell them when and where you plan on going. But what happens if you don't use fast passes?

This new scheme is pretty much going to be "come to the park and pay what we think that day will be crowd-wise." (Whether that crowd level pans out by the end of the night is anyone's guess.) They shouldn't even bother selling advance tickets with packages! If one park is crowded and the others aren't why should those tickets be considered more? Hollywood Studios anyone? They shouldn't and you should pay less to get into that park. How about four parks, each with their own three-tiered pricing scheme. Could you just imagine?! LOL

Let's go back to the good ol' days of the ticket book (and yes, I'm that old to remember them), where you bought your experiences. Or better yet, since Disney feels the average vacationer wants to plan everything (to death)... we could book vacations, tell them what attractions we want to experience on what days, they could use their multi-billion dollar magic band computer to spit out a list of our times and then charge us ONLY for those experiences at $10 a pop. This way they can control where everyone is to the minute in order to make sure the herd flows smoothly through the world.

This all gives me a headache and wishing that I hadn't just booked a two-week vacation to WDW...

 

[bpadair32]

No, it absolutely shouldn't. You may choose to settle, don't demand everyone else do likewise.

Im sorry but if you really think lines should not be expected at a theme park you have unreasonable expectations.

 

[JohnDaleswife]

Glad I went ahead and got my family our 4-day base tickets for our next trip, whenever that will be.