Delta overbooked!

[Figment56]

Just received a phone call today from Delta! Seems they have overbooked our flight home in August and would we be willing to switch to an earlier flight (ya right) or the next day (ya right again)! Nothing was even offered as an incentive. They had already cancelled the later flight and now everyone else is overbooked! People from the Northeast area, be prepared for phone calls from Delta!

 

[lrab1126]

That totally stinks! what are the dates ? i am browsing airfare now to fly out of boston aug 19 and i am getting nervous because first of all the prices are nuts and i also noticed that all the sites that had delta flights listed as a choice...when i looked at the available seating plan it showed no seats available?? so I guess I can see now how they overbook. So what will you do? I am sorry your having to deal with it

 

[deedeetoo]

The same thing happened to our flight going home in July. We got a call last month trying to see if we'd switch to an earlier flight or one the next day. I told them I wasn't interested so I didn't even hear whether they were offering incentives. I assume you are still OK on your flight. Just make sure you keep checking your reservation. I check mine all the time.

 

[CarolA]

Just make sure you get there on time. (Next time ASK what they will give you> At some point they will get a flyer like me who will deal for enough money LOL! I once got close to $1,000 out of AA!)

 

[seashoreCM]

1. Answer the question with a question: "Will you give me XX (you name the amount on the spot) dollars to make the change?"

2. In response to their comment, "You may be bumped." which is a sentence that is always true no matter what phase the moon is in, reply, "No I will leave my reservation as-is and will try to get to the airport early."

3. If there is another flight you coveted and they will give you, take them up on it.

Caution: Often these calls happen at 2 in the morning when you are more likely to be bamboozled into doing what they suggest. My suggestion is:

4. Don't answer the phone, let the answering machine take the call.

Disney hints: http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

I suspect the reason for this call is that a major schedule change occurred in which a flight was cancelled and now they have to rebook everyone on that flight.

1 is actually insecure because all there is is a he said she said if, when you finally get to the airport, they refuse to give you the compensation. If you want to volunteer, it is better to actually show up at the airport in timely fashion.

 

[goofy4tink]

I've been called a week before flying by Delta asking if we would take a different flight. Told them no, we had time sensitive plans and could't change our departure times. Seems that yet again, they had overbooked. But, we always get to the airport very early in any case, so we were okay.
But, on a different flight with Delta, they completely canceled a flight that was pretty close to full. They never called me, I had to find it out while checking my reservations on-line!! When I called to make alternative plans, they tried to get me on a flight leaving MCO at 6:30 am....my original flight was at 11:50. And the flight they were trying to get me on was already 3/4 full, but they agreed to put me on a later flight, at 4:30!!! Much better. That was the flight I originally wanted but it was twice the cost of the 11:50 flight home...so I was able to fly home at the time I wanted for the lower fare.
But, that's the only time a change has worked to my advantage!

 

[all4disney98]

Just saw a story on this on the Today show only 30 minutes ago! It is not just Delta doing this, it is all airlines. When no one volunteers to be bumped, they are actually pulling people off the airplanes after already seated even. They said long ago when bumping was popular the next available flight would just be hours away, now the next available flight may be days away!

They also said that their "pecking list" to select someone to be bumped often has to do with how much the passengers paid for their flights. The more you pay, the more likely you keep your seat.

Great, yet another thing to worry about before my vacation!

 

[bicker]

Yes this is the way things are these days, with the airline industry now, for the first time in a while, just barely breaking-even. That's mostly a result of increasing fares, cracking down on granting exceptions to rules, and reducing the costs associated with operating flights which aren't completely full. The airlines are often, but always, cooperative when they cancel a flight, but sometimes the best you can hope for is to get your money back and having to start from scratch to find flights for your trip.

 

[CarolA]

I fly a LOT. I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen involunatary bumps (if you don't count folks who RACE up the gate at the last minute and want thier seats) The airlines really HATE to do this and would rather give out free tickets, etc. If I have time I milk it for all it's worth. (Now if you stroll up the gate 5 minutes before departure carrying your Mickey D sacks don't be surprised if you don't get on. I actually saw this, the family apparently spent most of thier time in the airport shopping etc and walked up right at departure time. You should have heard the fit the mother pitched. Clue two, cursing out the gate agent will NOT get you special treatment and will probably get you on the flight next week, not in a few hours! LOL!)

 

[snowbunny]

Interesting article on this topic in yesterdays New York Times:

Bumped Fliers and No Plan B
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/jeff_bailey/index.html?inline=nyt-per
PHOENIX — The summer travel season is under way, and so many planes are expected to be full that, if you are bumped, you could end up waiting days for a seat on another flight to the same destination.
The number of fliers bumped against their will is expected to reach a high for the decade this year.
True, those travelers — about 56,000 of them — still represent only a small fraction of all passengers. But the increasing difficulty of rebooking bumped passengers has made the experience more maddening for fliers, and for the airline workers who deliver the bad news.
A look behind the scenes of US Airways at the widespread practice of airline overbooking shows the industry’s struggle to fill every possible seat, including those left empty by the millions of passengers who buy a ticket but then do not show up.
The effort at times pits a group of young math whizzes at the airline against battle-tested gate agents, who are often skeptical of the complex computer models used to predict no-shows and to overbook flights.
Some agents even take matters into their own hands, creating phantom reservations — Mickey Mouse is a favorite passenger name, for example — to keep the math nerds at headquarters from overbooking a flight.
“It’s a little bit of black art,” said Wallace Beall, senior director for revenue analysis who oversees overbooking at US Airways.
Overbooking is one of many airline practices that are complicated by crowded planes. Airlines are running closer to capacity than at any point during the jet age — an expected 85 percent or so full this summer, which means all the seats on popular routes will be taken.
Airlines, of course, overbook to avoid losing billions of dollars because of empty seats. Inevitably, though, they guess wrong on some flights and too many people arrive at the gate.
Vouchers for free flights have long been used to convince enough passengers to stand aside and wait for the next flight. But now, more people are refusing the voucher — which can vary from a small dollar amount to a round-trip ticket anywhere an airline flies (people who are involuntarily bumped get up to $400 for their troubles).
The reason is that fliers have figured out that with flights full, there are fewer and fewer seats to be bumped to.
“I usually volunteer to be bumped,” said Pamela Ingram, a consultant who travels most weeks from her home in Binghamton, N.Y., and loves collecting airline vouchers for leisure travel.
“But not lately,” she said. “It’s a different game. The wait can be days.”
The number of people bumped involuntarily — those refusing the voucher — rose 23 percent last year and kept rising in the first quarter of this year.
The ranks of all bumped passengers last year, 676,408, was small — unless you were one of them — compared with the 555 million total airline passengers.
Airline workers, of course, do not like bumping, either.
“It’s embarrassing,” said Brigid Mullin, a gate agent for US Airways here. On one or two flights a day, Ms. Mullin is left to explain to passengers that US Airways sold more tickets than it has seats on the plane.
“People are going to yell,” Ms. Mullin said.
Mr. Beall, the US Airways official, said, “Employees call in sick because they don’t want to deal with overbookings.”
Other coping strategies by agents include entering phantom bookings — in addition to Mickey Mouse, they occasionally enter the name of W. Douglas Parker, the chief executive at US Airways — to keep a flight from being oversold.
But phantom bookings later show up in the computer system as, you guessed it, a no-show, and the system then will overbook the next flight even more.
“We call it the death spiral,” said Mr. Beall’s boss, Thomas Trenga, vice president for revenue management at US Airways.
The airline has repeatedly told gate agents not to enter phantom bookings since US Airways and America West Airlines merged in the fall of 2005.
At an employee meeting just after the merger, Mr. Parker was confronted about the issue by John Martino, then a gate agent in Boston. “You know you’re going to be yelled and screamed at to the point you have to call the police,” he said.
Mr. Parker replied: “Why do we do so much of it? We will overbook as long as we allow people to no-show for flights; 7 to 8 percent of our customers are no-shows.”
At some airlines, the no-show rate is higher, as passengers take advantage of refundable tickets, which include those bought by business travelers at the last minute.
The potential impact is huge. US Airways had revenue of $11.56 billion last year and would have lost out on $1 billion or more of that had it not overbooked, the company said.
And with profit of just $304 million for the year, and with other airlines operating on similarly slim margins, “we’d probably all go bankrupt” without overbooking, Mr. Trenga said.
That said, Mr. Trenga acknowledged, “People view overbooking as something not on the up-and-up.”
So, while he tells his neighbors that he oversees pricing at US Airways, “I conveniently forget to mention the overbooking part.” US Airways rates in the middle of the industry pack on bumping passengers.
Of course, airlines could end no-shows and the need for overbooking by selling only nonrefundable tickets. JetBlue Airways does that, and no-shows lose the value of their ticket.
But business travelers, who pay the most, want refundable tickets and even JetBlue is considering offering them.
The revenue lost by leaving a seat empty — a spoiled seat, in industry parlance — typically exceeds the cost of compensating a bumped passenger. Only fear of angering people keeps airlines from overbooking more.
No-show rates used to be much higher — 20 percent or more for many airlines. Many travel agent reservations were unreliable. Other bookings were duplicates.
At US Airways, into the late 1990s, the no-show rate was about 14 percent, Mr. Beall said, and its ability to overbook accurately suffered. “We were stuck in an overbooking quagmire,” he said. “We had scant credibility” with gate agents.
But even after cleaning up its reservations and reducing no-shows to 7 percent to 8 percent, no-shows still vary widely among flights.
Mr. Beall entrusts the overbooking to people like Sherri Owens, 22. An economics graduate from the University of Virginia, she joined US Airways a little more than a year ago. Like nearly 50 other analysts, Ms. Owens uses software that scans the past no-show rate on flights, breaking it down among as many as 26 fare levels.
People paying the cheapest fares, which are typically nonrefundable, show up; those paying the most, usually refundable fares for business travelers, are more frequently no-shows. Midwesterners show up. People leaving Las Vegas often do not.
The software then takes note of the fares people are booking on a coming flight and estimates the number that will not show. Airlines overbook more aggressively early in the day, knowing they can find seats for those bumped as the day goes on.
Ms. Owens, along with her main job of setting various fares on a single flight, tweaks the overbooking numbers. Then, each week a report comes out that lists all US Airways flights that bumped 10 or more people. The analyst with the most flights on the report is stuck with a stuffed toy crow for the week. And occasionally they hear from angry airport workers who handled the bumping.
The week of April 23, for instance, 18 flights had 10 or more passengers bumped. Half those flights had fewer seats than were sold because of weather-related weight restrictions or substitution of a smaller plane, including a flight from Phoenix to Cabo San Lucas, Mexico, that left 37 passengers behind.
On others the airline guessed wrong. A Phoenix-to-San Diego flight, normally with 10 percent of passengers not showing, overbooked by 17 percent. Only 3 percent no-showed. Thirteen people were left behind.
The following week, just 11 flights made the double-digit list. A Las Vegas-to-Boston flight left 10 behind, including 8 involuntary bumps, when it was overbooked by 13 percent, despite the computer system’s listing past flights with only 5 percent no-shows.
Analysts are supposed to explain such failures, but the comments offered for that flight “are erroneous,” Mr. Beall said, scanning the report. “In a perfect world, a manager would force the analyst to come back” and explain. Time-pressed, however, he said, “I can’t guarantee that would happen.”
The analysts are somewhat insulated. Ms. Owens said she had never personally been bumped from a flight. Airport workers regularly ask her to book fewer people on some flights.
“It’s something we look into,” she said. “They remember the flights that oversold and not the five that went out fine. We have all the data in front of us. Normally I compromise between what they’re asking and what I would like it at.”
When employees like Ms. Owens become proficient at the art of overbooking, they tend to leave for other jobs, her boss, Mr. Beall, said.
“They used to stay for two to two and one half years. Now they stay for one and one half. It takes three months to train them,” he said.
“In-depth knowledge is fleeting.”

 

[Lewisc]

Passengers who are concerned with bumping might consider Jet Blue. AFAIK they are the only major airline that doesn't over book. That won't help you if a flight is cancelled due to weather or schedule changes.

There is talk that JetBlue may change that policy and start to overbook.

 

[seashoreCM]

Where is Ralph Nader when we need him?

(If I remember correctly, he was bumped, missed what he called an important meeting, and filed a lawsuit for what he estimated he lost in income. The airlines then got together to come up with the whole idea of voluntary bumps and compensation)

>>> shopping ... stroll up to the gate 5 minutes ...
If you miss the show up time, typically be at the gate 20 minutes before departure, and there is no seat left for you, this is a no-show, not a bump.

Once (I won't name the airline) I had booked the last flight of the day. It appeared to be nearly full when it was cancelled. I noticed my name on the second to last flight but with no seat assignment (online). I did nothing. A few days later I saw my name gone from that second to last flight. I called the airline and they said the latter flight was overbooked. They admitted that their computers automatically rebooked me onto that second to last and later they "cleaned things up". I did manage to convince them to put me back on said second to last flight given that,
1. I booked way way in advance,
2. At booking time the second to last flight was already on my mind as a second choice and was empty then,
3. I had a printout of the second to last flight with my name showing.

Now I suppose I should have telephoned immediately and accepted that second to last flight. Also I suppose the airline was expecting me to have not checked back often and therefore not noticed being on the second to last flight.

 

[Lewisc]

Under the "flat tire rule" most airlines will accomodate those passengers, on a standby basis, on the next flight without charging a penalty or a difference in fare. I agree it's not a bump but those passengers are treated better then just a no-show.

>>> shopping ... stroll up to the gate 5 minutes ...
If you miss the show up time, typically be at the gate 20 minutes before departure, and there is no seat left for you, this is a no-show, not a bump.

 

[bicker]

Where is Ralph Nader when we need him?

Thoroughly discredited.

 

[CarolA]

The news story quoted above is why a lot of frequent flyers have abandoned USAir if at all possible. Who knows what's going on there? (I fly mainly DL, SW and a small amount of AA. I can't recall the last "involuntary" bump I saw.)

 

[vacationtime]

Just saw a story on this on the Today show only 30 minutes ago! It is not just Delta doing this, it is all airlines. When no one volunteers to be bumped, they are actually pulling people off the airplanes after already seated even. They said long ago when bumping was popular the next available flight would just be hours away, now the next available flight may be days away!

They also said that their "pecking list" to select someone to be bumped often has to do with how much the passengers paid for their flights. The more you pay, the more likely you keep your seat.
Great, yet another thing to worry about before my vacation!

Have never had it happen to me, but the highlighted quote above concerns me. We purchased our airfare, from California, in February for a June trip. We paid $288 apiece and those same seats are over 1k right now!! I'll be taken out by Homeland Security, in cuffs, if they try to pull me off the plane because someone else was not keen enough to reserve in advance and paid a fortune.

 

[CarolA]

Have never had it happen to me, but the highlighted quote above concerns me. We purchased our airfare, from California, in February for a June trip. We paid $288 apiece and those same seats are over 1k right now!! I'll be taken out by Homeland Security, in cuffs, if they try to pull me off the plane because someone else was not keen enough to reserve in advance and paid a fortune.

Most of us who are buying those 1K fees are not "Not keen enough" but don't KNOW. I am a business traveler. I could get sent out of town next week. Airfare in that case often hits close to $1K. It's not lack of planning, it's the nature of the business.

The airlines need me as do YOU!!! Who do you think makes it possible for you to get the $288 fares, those of us paying a LOT more then cost.

 

[Lewisc]

It's rare for an airline to actually de-plane a passenger. They know they're overbooked and solve the situation prior to boarding. Check your airline's Contract of Carriage (CoC). It lists the priority that's used in determining which passenger gets bumped. Frequently full fared passengers get priority. Frequently passengers that don't have a seat assignment/ boarding pass get bumped first. Sometimes it's based on the time you get your BP. Passengers who are told they'll get their seat assignment at the gate should get to the gate early.

Delta give priority to passengers who are booked first class. If First Class is overbooked those passengers take priority over coach passengers. The next priority is passengers holding a BP, who are at the gate at the appropriate time. Delta reserves the right to treat special needs passengers differently.

If your flight is overbooked, if they don't get enough volunteers and if based on their criteria you're subject to being involuntarily bumped you won't have a choice. Take your compensation and you'll probably be transported later the same day. Make security grab you and you won't be flying at all.


Carol is right, the passengers paying $1000 are business passengers. Those are the passengers who are responsible for the profits of legacy airlines.

Have never had it happen to me, but the highlighted quote above concerns me. We purchased our airfare, from California, in February for a June trip. We paid $288 apiece and those same seats are over 1k right now!! I'll be taken out by Homeland Security, in cuffs, if they try to pull me off the plane because someone else was not keen enough to reserve in advance and paid a fortune.

 

[RachelEllen]

FYI, my boyfriend was almost involuntariy deplaned, so it does happen. It wasn't an overbooking issue, it was a weight issue. (I've seen this happen a few times, usually in bad weather, but I've never seen them make the call after everyone is seated)

The reason I'm posting this is that they chose him /because he got on the plane last/ He's a medallion level flyer and was on the second leg of a connection! It was a small plane where everyone was called for boarding at once and he was just being relaxed about walking up to the gate so ended up last in line

So, one more thing to consider. Get there early. Check in early. And don't be the last one on the plane!

(For anyone who cares, he wasn't actually kicked off the plane) They had offered up to $400 to try to get a volunteer first. While he was taking his carry-on out of the bin, another passenger decided to take the offer. But it was very close.

 

[CarolA]

I don't think most of you need to worry about weight. As I read the DIS the majority of travelers only want BIG JETS so weight is not an issue. I have seen in on the itty bitty planes LOL! I have also seen a rather large family "rearranged" to distribute the weight. (I wound up next to mom, who was terrified of flying. She grabbed my arm and didn't let go until we landed!)