Define "A pattern of rental activity for profit"

[spiceycat]

predict that Disney's frustration will continue since they are powerless to raise point costs or maintenance fees proportionate to their ever-increasing rack rates. As a result, renting for profit is only going to become more popular.

disney passed on to the DVC members all the costs associated with the DVC resorts you own - your maintence fees will rise....

disney can and has changed points. OKW (while it was DVC) was changed. this has been done and can be done again. (now I don't think they will - but if they do - it is in the contract)

I think this was done because so many members are complaining. this is not a new complaint at all. but even members are finally complaining then Disney will do something.

this is the start of the process - first a warning - then if the people still use their DVC membership as if they were the only owners of DVC - then cancelations.

Commerical renters - gee - I don't think I would enjoy my DVC if I was a commerical renters.... because then you have to rent. Not because you want to - but you have to.

there was one person from Ala who brought before I did and was a commerical renter - the people I talked to about him say he had NEVER even stayed at a DVC resort.....he advertised in the local paper.

to me this attitudes makes me more sad than mad. He doesn't know what he is missing....

 

[crisi]

One problem with the internet is that while the concepts may be similar to the topic being discussed, the details have often been changed from the original.

In this case, the language in everyone's POS (and this language has never changed from October, 1991) and in the email recently sent out- never mentions "profit".

The actual quote from the POS is :

"Commercial Purpose" shall include a pattern of rental activity by a Cotenant that the Assocoiation, in it's reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice.

Profit is not part of the concern and DVC has made no mention of profit in any discussion of rental activity. They don't care what rate members seek or receive- it is the "Commercial Purpose" that is of concern. Those renting for $8 per point are viewed no differently than those renting for $18 per point as far as "Commercial Purpose". They're looking at a pattern of activity- not the rate or the rental itself.

Depends on the definition of commercial:

commercial: Having profit as a chief aim

(source: Dictionary.com - which isn't the best dictionary, but this definition of commerce and commercial is pretty well understood by the business world.)

At some point it comes down to two things: semantics and whether this is a bluff on Disney's part or if they will do something. My own guess is that they will do something - not cancel reservations, but start putting pressure on eBay (and eventually sites like this) to stop allowing listings from "commercial" renters. eBay will probably react by shutting all listings down because they won't bother to figure out who is running a "commercial" enterprise and who is getting rid of a few points they can't use this year. It may not stand up in court, but in order to find out if it will, someone has to invest the time and money into going to court against Disney. In my experience working with corporate legal, you don't always pursue things like this because you'll win in court - you sometimes pursue things like this because it will cost the other party money to defend themselves and eventually you win by forfeit.

I don't have a horse in this race. I just find the race interesting.

 

[Lewisc]

You could probably start by going after owners that aren't just renting their own points but are renting and/or transferring points in (other owners points) so that they can rent them out at higher prices.

You might then look at owners who have large blocks of points and rarely use those points either for personal vacations or for vacations by family members.

I doubt Disney could enforce this, at least for current owners, but Disney could even put something like a right of first refusal for renting.

Finally they might go after reservations made on speculation, where the owner makes a reservation for a peak time then sells the reservation on ebay.

 

[Dean]

disney passed on to the DVC members all the costs associated with the DVC resorts you own - your maintence fees will rise....

Pat, the fees can only rise as much as the costs to run the resorts. This is only a portion of the costs so even if DVC fees rise at a rate c/w resort rates, or even a little higher, the gap between a DVC stay and a regular resort stay should widen over time. That should be reflected, but only to a degree, in the underlying value of the membership.

 

[caseyem67]

I am currently waiting for word on ROFR and have been reading posts about the enforcement of the one transfer rule with great interest. One thing I was planning on doing once (if) I get my points was to rent them so I could pay cash for a Disney Cruise (from reading DIS I understand the reason for doing it this way!).

My question--- if I rent to someone and they only need SOME of my points and I then try to rent the rest to someone else, will I be able to do this? From what I am reading I am guessing I won't be able to. Am I right or is there a better way to do something like this?

Thanks for any help and advice.

 

[mochabean]

I am currently waiting for word on ROFR and have been reading posts about the enforcement of the one transfer rule with great interest. One thing I was planning on doing once (if) I get my points was to rent them so I could pay cash for a Disney Cruise (from reading DIS I understand the reason for doing it this way!).

My question--- if I rent to someone and they only need SOME of my points and I then try to rent the rest to someone else, will I be able to do this? From what I am reading I am guessing I won't be able to. Am I right or is there a better way to do something like this?

Thanks for any help and advice.

Generally renting and transferring are two different things. Transferring is giving points to another member who then has complete use of the points. Renting is making a reservation in someone else's name who then pays you. Renting to multiple people in a single year should be no problem.

By the way, Hi from Pottstown!

 

[caseyem67]

Thanks! Wow--small world!