Decisions, decisions!

[Mr.MouseFan]

Hello all!

So after literally months of reading reviews and looking at different cameras, I think I may have finally narrowed it down to two choices. This is my first foray (sp?) into the world of DSLRs. I've narrowed it down to the Pentax K2000 and the Canon Rebel XS.

One of my points of indecision is the fact that I really like taking shots at night. Pentax offers a higher ISO, but Canon has cleaner pictures at higher ISO settings. Also, the Pentax has in body image stabilization while the Canon has in lense stabilization. Aren't lenses with stabilization in them generally more expensive? But doesn't Canon have more lenses to offer?

Does anyone have any feedback on these two cameras or any other suggestions? Any input would be tremendously appreciated.

 

[ssanders79]

When shooting at might use a tripod and remote sjuuter release. This will allow you to keep the ISO set at the lowest by using a longer exposure. Now you can look at even more camera models. I personly keep my ISO set to the lowest 99.9% of the time
I am shooting.

 

[ukcatfan]

If you ever plan to go professional or something then the system offerings are not very different. Canon has many available lenses, but the majority of them are only used by a select few that can pay that much on a lens. For most consumer grade lenses, you can find similar ones in each system.

As for the ISO, you will not notice much, if any, difference in real world application between all cameras on that level. If go up to a more expensive model you would see a noticeable improvement, but as I assume you are coming from a p&s, the improvement is going to be huge already. You can also apply a little noise reduction in post processing that also helps when needed. One last piece of advice on ISO noise; be sure not to underexpose in low light because that is when it shows up the worst.

On IS, I love having it on my K100D. The in lens is supposed to perform a little better, but the in body does work well and works on every lens. There are some lenses with Canon and Nikon that are not even available with IS. Also, as you stated, the IS lenses always cost more.

So, unless you are considering becoming very serious (and spending thousands of dollars), then I suggest the Pentax between those two.

 

[ukcatfan]

I just looked at prices and at Buydig, for $20 more on the Pentax you also get an external flash. I believe the flash that comes with the K2000 retails for about $100, so that is a pretty good deal. Also, the Pentax kit lens is probably a little bit better than the Canon one. On those cameras, they both have plastic lens mounts, but the general build quality on the Pentax is going to be a little better and the front element does not rotate making it easier to use a rotating filter. There is not going to be any noticeable optical quality differences between the two.

 

[WVDisGeek]

As a proud owner of a K200D, I admit, I am a little biased.

However, I think ukcatfan is correct when he says between the two, the ISO is probably not going to be as huge a difference as you might think and will be better than your P&S (probably, always leave a caveat!)

Also, the in body stabilization works with ANY lens that fits your camera. Which brings me to my next point. With the Pentax, you have a whole world of lenses available to you. With the K2000, you can use ANY Pentax lens for your camera and several from other manufaturers that use the Pentax mount. (some may require a $25 screw-in adapter)

Also, I think you should try and get a hold of each of the cameras and see which feels better in your hand. I know when I was looking, I was biased toward the Pentax because I had some legacy glass, but when I held the Pentax, I liked the heft of it better than the Canon. I liked the feel of the Nikon too, but the legacy glass was the tie-breaker.

Which ever you decide upon, best of luck, welcome to the DSLR world and go take some pictures!

 

[YesDear]

Not being an owner of either brand let me offer a slightly different thought.

Make your decision based on what feels good to you. While you may not ever be a professional, many serious amateurs have extensive camera equipment collections. You might want to consider which brand gives you the most growing room. From what I have read, that would be Canon.

Bottom line is get the one you will use most. At the entry level there is probably not much difference but as you grow Canon probably has more to offer as a product line. That is no slight to Pentax however.

 

[MarkBarbieri]

I would put them in alphabetical order and then pick from the start of the list.

 

[jfinke]

I would put them in alphabetical order and then pick from the start of the list.

 

[ukcatfan]

While you may not ever be a professional, many serious amateurs have extensive camera equipment collections. You might want to consider which brand gives you the most growing room. From what I have read, that would be Canon.

I think many people have overlooked Pentax in this area. There really is tons of room to grow with them. Sure, not as much as Canon or Nikon, but you would really only hit a roadblock when going to true professional level equipment (Mark, your opinion does not count on this one ). When (and if) you do make that step, you are likely going to be upgrading both lenses and body at the same time, so you really would not be losing much in terms of investment in a system. Also, almost all new lenses from 3rd parties are being introduced in Canon, Nikon, Pentax, and Sony so that is no longer a factor. To top it all off, the prime selection from Pentax is incredible! (and you get IS with them all)

 

[Alztybrn]

I would put them in alphabetical order and then pick from the start of the list.

As a Canon apologist...I concur....

 

[MICKEY88]

Not being an owner of either brand let me offer a slightly different thought.

Make your decision based on what feels good to you. While you may not ever be a professional, many serious amateurs have extensive camera equipment collections. You might want to consider which brand gives you the most growing room. From what I have read, that would be Canon.

Bottom line is get the one you will use most. At the entry level there is probably not much difference but as you grow Canon probably has more to offer as a product line. That is no slight to Pentax however.

although this is technically correct, I'm going to put a different spin on it..
I think it's overhyped, canon does have more lenses, but a lot are repeats..I believe it's their 70-200 2.8 thay have 4 different versions, who really needs more than one..

plus many amateurs have larger collections than some pros, because they buy into the hype and think they need a different lens for everything..

one of the main reasons a lot of pros use canon dslrs is the same reason these pros used nikon back in the film days. a professional assistance program,,at all major sporting events, superbowl, world series..olympics..etc,,there are trailers of canon equipment parked outside waiting to assist a pro if a piece of equipment goes down,, nikon needs to bring their program back to what it once was, minolta had a program but it was not as large,,full time pros could borrow lenses and such in advance for important shoots...a lot of former minolta users, who now use sony, are pushing for them to bring that program back..

unless a person is going to be doing a lot of shooting full time in extreme conditions, they will be fine with canon,nikon,pentax or Sony, the odds of outgrowing a system are minimal... for the average person..

 

[Mr.MouseFan]

Thanks for the advice everyone! There were things mentioned that I hadn't even considered but am certainly now thinking about. I appreciate the feedback and will definitely use it before I make a decision! I'll let everyone know what I end up with! (I think I'm leaning toward Pentax for the in body IS)

Just one thing...If I alphabetize and choose from the start of the list, would I be alphabetizing the brand name or the model number?

 

[boBQuincy]

One thing that gets little mention is how the camera "handles", apart from how it feels in your hands. What this refers to is how easy it is for you to change settings and modes. Unless you plan to leave it in Auto the handling is one of the big differentiators between models, and why I would not consider a Canon Rebel until the Xsi.

Change exposure program settings, shutter speed, aperture, ISO, exposure compensation, etc. See if the buttons are located where it makes sense and good ergonomics or if the settings are buried three menus deep. Check how easy (or difficult) it is to bracket exposures and to use a remote release, or to change flash exposure.

Chances are if some of these functions are difficult to use that we will skip them and lose out on some good photo opportunities. Some of the ways to change settings make no sense and this is not specific to one brand, they all do some stupid things!

Oh yes, one more, check to see if ReallyRightStuff has an L bracket for the camera you want!

 

[MarkBarbieri]

Thanks for the advice everyone! There were things mentioned that I hadn't even considered but am certainly now thinking about. I appreciate the feedback and will definitely use it before I make a decision! I'll let everyone know what I end up with! (I think I'm leaning toward Pentax for the in body IS)

Just one thing...If I alphabetize and choose from the start of the list, would I be alphabetizing the brand name or the model number?

That's easy. "Brand Name" comes before "Model Number".

Seriously, there are lots of useful criteria for picking a camera. First and most important is image quality. This includes high ISO sensitivity, color rendition, etc. From what I can tell, the entry level DSLRs are reasonably comparable in this area.

Another important factor is camera handling. Image quality doesn't help if you can't get the shot. To assess this, you need to play with each camera for a bit and see if it works for you. They vary in size, button placement, and control style. There are lots of other differences. Some autofocus faster than others. Some lenses handle better than others (non-rotating front elements, internal focus).

Features are also important. In-body IS has been mentioned already. Because it is cheaper and works for any lens, it is better than in-lens IS for most applications. The exceptions are that it doesn't work for panning and is possibly less effective for super telephoto lens (which cost $5,000+, so I wouldn't get excited about that). Another key feature is buffer size. If you shoot people performing, you'll often find that you need to take dozens of shots in a minute and small buffer can severely limit your shooting. High frames-per-second ratings can also be very useful for sports.

Even beyond the camera itself, you need to pay attention to the overall ecosystem for the brand. I think that the most important aspect there is to try to align your system with what family and friends use. That means that you can share equipment and knowledge more readily. You'll find more workshops and training materials for some brands, although the basic principals are the same, so you can always translate with a minimum of hassle. Some brands also have more third party support for things like lens rentals and add-ons. There is also the esoteric gear and lenses, but I wouldn't worry too much about those.

So for me, I'd look at image quality. Assuming it is reasonably similar, I'd test the handling and narrow my list down to cameras that work well for me. After that, I'd look at features that align with how I shoot. I'd also consider to what extent I would leverage the larger ecosystems of some brands.

There could also be some questions about long term brand survival, but everyone seems to be weathering the current economic crisis.

 

[Mr.MouseFan]

Thanks for the insight Mark. Who knew that buying a camera could be so involved? LOL But all of this has opened my eyes to things I wasn't even thinking about. I think my next step will be to the stores to play with the cameras.