DEBATE: UNIONS - good or bad?

[caitycaity]

as opposed to some other threads on the CB today, this is DEFINITELY a DEBATE. just play nice.

do you think unions have outlived their usefulness? do you think in most cases unions just cause more problems an roadblocks to reform than actually helping people?

i have always been torn on this issue. recently however, it seems like the stories i hear about unions are unions striking over things that the companies really don't have much control over, or making completely unrealistic demands.

i grew up in a very pro-union household. i have family members that are members of unions. however, in my personal experience, union strikes leave me cold. one time, i was visiting dh at his dad's place of employment. some of the workers there (not dh's dad) belonged to a union that was on strike and they were picketing. i had to cross the line. of course, they all started making nasty comments and calling me a scab. get a grip - i'm from out of town and i definitely don't work here. one of them started calling me names that are inappropriate for the dis. yeah. that's really going to get me on your side.

another time, one of our neighbors was the owner of a business whose employees were striking. they all came and picketed our neighborhood. they blocked the street when people needed to get to work. they would yell nasty stuff, even around kids. i was even afraid to go out and walk the dog. again - way to win friends.

at any rate, i realize that not all unions employ tactics like this - but i would be interested to hear what people have to say about unions and strikes in general.

 

[snarfer1]

Originally posted by caitycaity
as opposed to some other threads on the CB today, this is DEFINITELY a DEBATE. just play nice.

do you think unions have outlived their usefulness? do you think in most cases unions just cause more problems an roadblocks to reform than actually helping people?

i have always been torn on this issue. recently however, it seems like the stories i hear about unions are unions striking over things that the companies really don't have much control over, or making completely unrealistic demands.

i grew up in a very pro-union household. i have family members that are members of unions. however, in my personal experience, union strikes leave me cold. one time, i was visiting dh at his dad's place of employment. some of the workers there (not dh's dad) belonged to a union that was on strike and they were picketing. i had to cross the line. of course, they all started making nasty comments and calling me a scab. get a grip - i'm from out of town and i definitely don't work here. one of them started calling me names that are inappropriate for the dis. yeah. that's really going to get me on your side.

another time, one of our neighbors was the owner of a business whose employees were striking. they all came and picketed our neighborhood. they blocked the street when people needed to get to work. they would yell nasty stuff, even around kids. i was even afraid to go out and walk the dog. again - way to win friends.

at any rate, i realize that not all unions employ tactics like this - but i would be interested to hear what people have to say about unions and strikes in general.

Yes

-Tony

 

[piglet too]

My only question with unions is what has happened here in Chicago recently. A 19 yr old son of a union official was hired as a building inspector for the city. They say he "fudged" his resume but I have to wonder how much his Daddy had to do with his getting the job.

I think unions can be good, but they can be pretty bad too. My SIL's husband has worked as a welder for 20 years, but has never belonged to a union (it is not really needed where they live). He tried to get a job out here, but was told that he would never get any work due to the fact he has been working non-union.

 

[katerkat]

I think they were useful in the past, but they have outlived their usefulness.

I would never join one. My mother taught for 25 years and never joined a union - something I'm proud she never did.

 

[Chicago526]

Some times unions are good, some times not.

My BF works for a major Chicago paper. He had some trouble with his boss, they wanted to write him up for something he didn't do in order to prevent his transfer to another department. Even though he isn't in the Union, the union rep. came to the meeting as a neutral observer (so BF couldn't get s*****d over even more). So my opinion of this particular union is good, because the company really tries to pull stuff on the employees all the time. (The wrote him up, preventing the transfer but he refused to sign it. The transfer would have allowed him to start working days instead of the night shift. This was after he saved a multi-million dollar acount from pulling their business. How's that for gratitude!)

I'm sure there are plenty of other companies that try to work with the unions, but it's the unions that cause the problems.

 

[Tinks]

I agree they have outlived their usefulness, too. No debate from me. I think they should exist, if nothing else as a means of checks and balances, but in our town it has come to "I have to vote this way because the union told me to." Having control over other people's lives in that manner is scary.

 

[dzneprincess]

I am a proud member of a union. The CWA. Just recently we had contract talks and it looked very much like we were going to strike. Our company was going to take away our medical coverage and put us on High deductibel health plans. If you do not know about these plans,read up on them, they stink. If it were not for our union, we would have had no choice in this matter. As a mother of 4, I NEED good health coverage. To me, it takes more importance over pay. No point in being paid well if more than half of that would be going to medical care. I do agree however, that there are some down sides to a union. However, I believe that there is nothing that does not have a drawback. So my vote is, unions=good. I have great health coverage, and a great paying job because of my union. I could be doing the same job for minimum wage and no health coverage.

 

[briannesmom]

I have been a UAW member for almost 5 years. Thankfully I haven't had to deal with a stike yet. I think that the union is great in terms of negotiating our benefits, pay, paid holidays, overtime equalization, etc for us.
One thing I don't like is when people abuse what the union is there for. We have had people in the past get fired for excessive abscenses (I mean REALLY excessive) They go to the union and they negotiate to get them their jobs back. There is no reason for the excessive abensces, if there is a personal or family medical reason they would qualify for the Family Medical Leave Act or if abscenes are for personal reasons they could apply for an unpaid leave of abscense. Jobs in the auto industry pay very well but are hard to come by. If you can't bother to show up for work let someone who wants to work have your job. JMHO

Overall, I am glad to be a union member.

Amy

 

[totalia]

I think that we still need unions and that they are still useful.

My workplace desparately needs a union. We earn lower than other hotels in our area, we don't get breaks, we work over time and don't get paid for it (and they get angry if you won't work it and claim that its part of the job). Everyone is paranoid looking over their shoulder now because people keep getting fired just about anything you can imagine. There's more but the list would continue for a very long time.

With a union, none of this would be happening and if it did the union would fight for our rights and the company would be forced to contend with it.

So many people in this place have had to take stress leave because most of the workers leave at night with stress headaches and stomach aches. A coworker of mine has bad ulcers because she's been so stressed by this place. She's looking for another job but she's over 55 years old. People don't hire 55 year old employees.

I would LOVE to get a union together for all of the hotel workers in this city. We need it.

 

[tonyswife]

I'm fine with unions as long as they are no a requirement for emplyment anywhere. Also, employers should have the right to hire other people if the union strikes.

 

[MHopkins2]

Totalia - depending on the nature of the job, the employer may be legally required to pay overtime. You don't need a union, you just need to contact the Federal Labor Standards Board (or is it Bureau? I know it's FLSB).

 

[katerkat]

Originally posted by MHopkins2
Totalia - depending on the nature of the job, the employer may be legally required to pay overtime. You don't need a union, you just need to contact the Federal Labor Standards Board (or is it Bureau? I know it's FLSB).

Totalia is Canadian, I don't know if their laws differ on that.

 

[Tinks]

Another thing that frightens me about unions: I think that in order to stay competitive in the industry, many more companies will be forced overseas because of the higher and higher demands coming from unions. It is already starting to happen.
I hope unions realize this may be a very real outcome of their efforts. Again, I'm not against unions, I just think they can be unrealistic in their demands and not see the larger picture for the company.

 

[totalia]

They ARE legally required to pay it. Just like they are legally required to give us a half hour unpaid break and a 15 minute paid break every day.

But every time someone goes to the labour board (I'm in Canada), suddenly the company finds a hoard of reasons to fire them.

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by katerkat
Totalia is Canadian, I don't know if their laws differ on that.

Boogers - I totally forgot. Thanks, KK. If I had to guess though, I'd guess that their laws are even stronger than ours.

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by totalia
They ARE legally required to pay it. Just like they are legally required to give us a half hour unpaid break and a 15 minute paid break every day.

But every time someone goes to the labour board (I'm in Canada), suddenly the company finds a hoard of reasons to fire them.

I don't know anything about the Canadian legal system, but I know in the US, if you can prove a pattern of that sort of thing, you can sue the company's socks off.

 

[tonyswife]

Salary and benefits should be determined by what the market can bear.

Working conditions should and are regulated by government. If the legislation needs to be updated/revised, slet's do it.

(repeating myself from another thread, seems more relevant here)

 

[Toby'sFriend]

I cannot imagine working for a Union and I believe they have long outlived their usefulness.

I think our country as a whole should enact reasonable worker's rights law concerning minimum wages and employment standards. Beyond that the labor market should work as any other free market system in a Capitalistic country.

 

[disneysnowflake]

My niece is a Sophomore in college. She decided to get a part time job working for a grocery store near her apartment.
In order for her to get a job at that grocery store for MINIMUM WAGE and only 20 hours a week she had to join the union.
First, she had to pay $200 to join. It would be taken out of 4 paychecks at $50 per pay. If you're only working for minimum wage and only working 20 hours per week you won't have a lot left over. She'd only get paid every 2 weeks, so she'd have to pay $50 every 2 weeks for 2 months to pay off just the dues to get in.
Then she'd have to pay $21 a month in union dues.
For what???
She got only minimum wage, no benefits, no holidays, no sick time, no paid vacation.
So, why should she pay a union to do that?
She got a job at a craft store instead.
I can't believe that many people work for that grocery store with having to pay stupid union dues. You can go work at any other grocery store chain for the same hours/same pay and have an extra $21 in your pocket each month.

 

[Chicago526]

Originally posted by Tinks
Another thing that frightens me about unions: I think that in order to stay competitive in the industry, many more companies will be forced overseas because of the higher and higher demands coming from unions. It is already starting to happen.
I hope unions realize this may be a very real outcome of their efforts. Again, I'm not against unions, I just think they can be unrealistic in their demands and not see the larger picture for the company.

The unions are going to get into HUGE problems with this in the next 20 years. They will negotiate themselves right into the unemployment line if they don't start changing things RIGHT NOW!

Lets face it, the companies would be crazy NOT to relocate to other countries. Why pay $20 per hour plus bennifits here when you can pay some one else outside the US $5 (and their gratefull to have it!).